L's Minor Drain and Vamp' Touch are being over nerfed?

HexHammer

"Larloch's Minor Drain and Vampiric Touch now only heal if the target is damaged, neither can be self-cast, VT can't be cast twice on the same target, and the Bhaalspawn LMD does the right dam."

I can only see this as an unreasonable nerf, compared to other classes who has Mirror Image and can withstand huge punishment.

Jean_Luc

LMD change makes perfect sense imo but I don't really understand the VT one unless I'm missing something.

CamDawg

When this spell is cast, the target loses 1-6 hit points for every two caster levels, to a maximum drain of 6-36 for a 12th-level caster. These hit points are added to the caster's current hit points, with any hit points over the caster's normal maximum treated as temporary, additional hit points. The temporary hit points last for 5 turns.

Note: This spell may not be cast multiple times to radically increase the caster's hit-points. The caster must wait for the first vampiric touch spell to run its course before casting another.

Tanthalas

They're not being nerfed, they're being fixed.

And what are you quoting anyway?

HexHammer

Tanthalas said:

And what are you quoting anyway?

Seems I've bee too quick to judge, I was quoting the fix list. I see now that it actually scales which it didn't do in previous games IIRC like BG I II, IWD I II.

Forgive me for this untimely outburst.

agris

VT scales in IWD 1.42

HexHammer

agris said:

VT scales in IWD 1.42

Stopped playing long before that.

bbear

makes sense according to the spell description. I do agree that they are very underwhelming spells (at least post bg1).

colonel_burger

Just cast Melf's Minute DropAPianoOnThem. Works every time.

Dragonspear

@Colonel_burger

I thought that spell was Acme DropAPianoOnThem

Shame it requires epic levels and the wild magic table though to cast it

colonel_burger

@Dragonspear if you're too low level you can always cast breach, lower MR, greater malison then finger of death I reckon that combo killed JFK.

HexHammer

nvm

kamuizin

On the old game, if you cast vampiric touch and lachor minor drain after that, while you're under the effect of Vampiric touch temporary max HP up, any lachor minor drain that you cast will not only damage the enemy, but heal yourself AND RAISE YOUR MAX HP TEMPORARY also (with no limit to lachor minor drain).

Ok, it's just something like 4 or 5 temporary max HP but it's a bug, if they fixed that, the better. In BG II ToB high level you could just cast stop time and improved alcharity, cast a vampiric touch + 12 lachor minor drain and you get +60 or 70 temporary HP up, suffice enough to be immune to symbols of stuns and fears (and of course to symbols of death).

HexHammer

If I may ask an unrelating question, it seems Larloch's Minor Drain was removed in 3.5 DnD?

stygga

colonel_burger said:

@Dragonspear if you're too low level you can always cast breach, lower MR, greater malison then finger of death I reckon that combo killed JFK.

Why would you cast breach in that spell chain? Breach does away with combat protections IE stoneskin. If anything, hit pierce magic first, or a ruby ray / warding whip!

Figrut

@HexHammer You just got Enervation and Energy Drain along those lines in core set.

Quartz

Tanthalas said:

They're not being nerfed, they're being fixed.

...Err. Technically that's still a nerf. I agree completely that it is a fix, and it needed fixing, but a nerf is anything that negatively impacts a weapon/spell/ability. I know I'm being a turd, being so specific and all when no one really cares, but when you make such bold claims you are practically asking me to be this way.

Kitteh_On_A_Cloud

I agree with @Quartz. A fix is not necessarily considered a fix by everyone. Maybe there are people who think the spells don't need fixing at all.

Moomintroll

Can't you cast vampiric touch on chests and doors? is that being fixed too?

Moomintroll

If it's a fix then it's a righteous nerf, we need a more positive sounding word, like spoing.

Mortianna

HexHammer said:

If I may ask an unrelating question, it seems Larloch's Minor Drain was removed in 3.5 DnD?

Larloch's Minor Drain was never a PnP spell. It was created specifically for BG.

HexHammer

Mortianna said:

HexHammer said:

If I may ask an unrelating question, it seems Larloch's Minor Drain was removed in 3.5 DnD?

Larloch's Minor Drain was never a PnP spell. It was created specifically for BG.

WHAT??!!?!?
..it's such an AWESOME spell, it MUST be implemented in PnP! QQ