fighter->cleric vs cleric of lathander

BollywoodHero

If I dual a fighter at level 7, I get 1.5 attacks + specialization at all times. Is that better than the effects gained from boon of lathander (i.e. +1 to Hit, damage and saving throws plus an extra attack?)

AHF

For melee purposes, "yes." By 7th level you will also have 6 proficiency slots which means you could get yourself yet another attack with something like:

2* mace
1* war hammer (use later slot to specialize)
3* dual wielding

Ulfgar_Torunn

Yes, the extra hitpoints and specialization granted to you by the fighter class will allow you to outperform a cleric of the same level. If you consider the loss of "Boon of Lathander" to be too severe (which it isn't) consider supplementing it with the Berserker kit's enrage ability.

If you choose to avoid the Berserker kit on roleplaying grounds then worry not; a fighter 7/ cleric 39 is plenty better than a pure cleric.

BollywoodHero

So a level 7 warrior gets 3/2 attacks. With specialization he gets an additional half-attack. So, essentially, the only advantage from boon of lathander is the +1 to saving throws. Do I understand this correctly?

Debaser

Cleric / Ranger has advantages too.

lockmund

@BollywoodHero 2 attacks per round. +1/2 for lvl 7 and +1/2 for weapon specialization. So basicly, yes.

BollywoodHero

@lockmund From the progression charts I've been looking at, fighters get 1.5 base attacks at level 7. With specialization, they get a total of 2 attacks - same as with boon of lathander.

lockmund

Exactly.

BollywoodHero

oops. I thought you said 3 attacks. Mind playing tricks on me...

AHF

The jump in attacks is really only if you choose to dual wield. That becomes much more viable with the fighter/cleric model than with a pure cleric.

Sharn

Boon of Lathander is also a castable effect and not a permanent one.

Zaor

On the other hand, unless the cap is pushed back about 15000 points (Oh who am I kidding, that's likely for EE) you can't recover your fighter abilities in BG1. You also lose out on the possibility of other races that you might prefer to humans. +1 saves doesn't seem like much until you think of it as +6 from your inability to be a Dwarven Cleric.

BollywoodHero

Dwarves are short and fat. Not suitable for my alter ego at all. ...but the fact remains that dualing at level 7 will require a tonne of xp. Think ill go the lathander route.

Roller12

Human dual class fighter->x pretty much dominates everything until ToB... Thief, cleric, mage.. all powerhouses. Dont even have to dual them at level7 if thats too much exp. They can have 3 pips in dual wield at level 3 already. Here comes the extra attack, plus thac0, damage and attacks from specialization, all permanently.

parklis2

Dual from fighter to cleric at 3 and you get 5proficiency slots, enough for grandmastery, thats 1full extra attack plus damage and thac0 bonus. Thac0 progression for clerics should be good enough but you could also multiclass cleric /fighter for better thac0, no grand mastery but a ton of proficiency slots for a ranged weapon and fighting styles.

Also boon of lathander is rubish and wont last you for a whole combat against a Goblin.

Frek

@parklis2 I'm not following what you are saying, you can't have 5 pips in anything at level 3. At best you can have 3 pips in 1 category.

AHF

Frek said:

@parklis2 I'm not following what you are saying, you can't have 5 pips in anything at level 3. At best you can have 3 pips in 1 category.

I think he is saying that for BG:EE (using the BG2-style proficiencies) you can have 5 pips:

4 pips to start as a fighter
1 additional pip at lvl 3

= grand mastery in one weapon or specialization + 3 pips in dual wield

Frek

@AHF are they going to let us do that? I thought in BG at level 1 you can't put anymore than 2 pips into any category. I know the BG2 creator allowed you to do this but that was because you were creating a higher level character. In the BG character creator, either original or TuTu, you can't put any more than 2 pips into a weapon.

parklis2

@frek Wops I haven't played BG1 since release and I though you could spend your proficiency points freely like on BG2 (you start at level7) if you can't get grand mastery at level 3, how many pips can you take at level3?

Debaser

@Frek you can't do it at Character Creation. But you can over time be able to do it and get attack bonuses. The problem is with BG 2 the attack bonuses were severely nerfed.

Roller12

@Frek
>are they going to let us do that?
No ofc the arent. Lots of people play total conversions, bg1 content in bg2 game. And since Bg2 starter characters are lvl6 it allows 4 pip. If it happens, its a bug in total conversions. Obviously not legit and obviously not gonna happen in bg:ee.

Truth be told vanilla bg i believe was even worse, as you could continue spend profpoints in each proficiency even after dualling so could get grandmastery even as a cleric in everything allowed. That was fun

AHF

Frek said:

@AHF are they going to let us do that? I thought in BG at level 1 you can't put anymore than 2 pips into any category. I know the BG2 creator allowed you to do this but that was because you were creating a higher level character. In the BG character creator, either original or TuTu, you can't put any more than 2 pips into a weapon.

I was assuming they were taking the BG2 proficiency system over to BG:EE. I don't know if they are planning to limit you to only 2 pips in any category.

If they do, it seems like the specialization + dual wielding would be the strongest combination.

Koson

Roller12 said:

Truth be told vanilla bg i believe was even worse, as you could continue spend profpoints in each proficiency even after dualling so could get grandmastery even as a cleric in everything allowed. That was fun

If I remember correctly it was the same in BG2, I recall Anomen being able to go past specialization in my games.