Baldur's Gate Stats and you
sandmanCCL
Member Posts: 1,389
One of the more overwhelming parts of Baldur's Gate for those not familiar with AD&D is stats. What does each number actually mean? I started BG2 after 3rd Edition came out and my initial character would have been a really awesome paladin by 3e standards: turned out he was terrible for BG.
I figured I would give a quick run-down so new players knew where to place each stat on their guy for maximum benefit. Note, I do not care if you want to "role-play" by stats. This is purely a discussion about what each stat does for your guy according to the game's engine.
Firstly, it is a well-known thing there is a tome to increase each stat by 1 permanently located throughout Baldur's Gate 1. A lot of people plan their characters around this for meta-game purposes, so I'd be remiss not to mention it. There's actually 3 wisdom tomes.
There are also a handful of ways stats are permanently affected in Baldur's Gate 2:
Final note: When I refer to "warrior classes," I mean fighters, rangers, paladins, barbarians or any multi-class combination involving said classes.
Strength:
Strength is important for anyone you plan on inflicting melee punishment with and also determines your character's carry capacity and potential gear. Note that bonuses to melee do not start in any way until 16 so you can get away with lower values on characters you do not wish to bring into melee such as wizards and druids.
Generally speaking, do not go below 10. It is a hassle to micro-manage weight distribution among your party when you have less than that because only 50 lbs. of gear capacity means you will likely be near max just from robes, two weapons and quick-slots full of potions.
Negatives to attack rolls do not start until you hit 7 or below strength. 8 is therefore the bare minimum value you should ever allow on your Bhaalspawn.
It's also worth mentioning "exceptional" strength. This is represented by a 18/##. Only warrior classes can obtain this bonus upon character creation. That number is factored by percentage dice and therefore go between 01 and 00 (00=100). The threshold for bonuses goes 01-50, 51-75, 76-90, 91-99 and lastly 00. That means there is no difference between a guy with 18/17 and 18/50.
If you plan to do melee at all, it is an important stat to boost as high as possible. Clerics and warrior classes should at minimum have 15 so they can equip full plate mail.
There is one item in BG1 and several in BG2 which simply set strength at a predetermined high value (18/00 and up). It's possible even if you make a character with high strength you'll eventually rely on those. Strength is easily "fixed" on a semi-permanent basis by utilizing the arcane spell "Strength," which grants 18/50 STR to any target you cast it upon. (Note: If you already have an exceptional strength value, ie: 18/41, casting this spell adds another 50 to the exceptional role boosting it to 18/91. If you have 19 strength or better, it lowers your strength.) It's only a level 2 spell and lasts for an hour per character level, so even when you first gain level 2 spells it will last long enough to get you through any single map segment in BG1. Clerics also get spells which simply set their strength value to a high 18/## roll although for shorter periods of time and with higher level spell slots.
Dexterity:
Dexterity is the most important stat in that every single class gains important benefits from it. Generally speaking, max it out on every last character you roll.
Each point above 14 grants additional Armor Class, meaning you are more difficult to hit. 7-14 dexterity has no differences between them at all, so if you do not care about lowering your armor class, you can safely go as low as 7 without penalty. You start to gain penalties to armor class and ranged attack rolls if you go 6 or below, so don't do it.
Additionally rolls of 16 or better grant a bonus to ranged attack rolls. It is important to boost this stat for anyone you plan on utilizing ranged weaponry with as a result.
As a final note, dexterity grants extra bonuses to thieving skills. You should max it on all your thieves, and this is why halflings and elves are so good at that class.
There are gauntlets you can find which simply set that character's dexterity value to 18. I recommend against relying on these to fix an otherwise poor dexterity score at least for your Bhaalspawn, simply because once he or she dies it's game over. There are a number of NPCs in both titles who desperately need the Gauntlets of Dexterity to be viable. Just like with strength, I recommend against relying on this item when you can simply click the reroll button until you finally get a roll you're happy with.
There are also potions which boost Dexterity to 18. They are a band-aid for low dexterity NPCs that last a good chunk of time at 15 turns.
Constitution:
Constitution is important for each class as it grants bonus hit points per level. However, it is limited in usefulness for any non-warrior class. Each point above 14 makes your character gain an additional hit point per level, but non-warriors are capped at just +2 HP per level. That means in terms of HP, there is no reason to go beyond 16 CON for your mages, thieves, clerics, etc. (Halflings, gnomes and dwarves may want to go beyond 16 constitution even as a thief or cleric for their saving throw bonuses as explained shortly.)
Warrior classes still gain bonus HP per constitution beyond 16. A dwarf fighter with 19 constitution gains +5 HP per level, which is pretty significant.
At 20 constitution, your character regenerates 1 HP every minute. It doesn't sound like much and rarely comes into play in combat. However, it does mean your guy will heal up to full upon resting, even if your clerics are out of healing spells.
Halflings, dwarves and gnomes all gain bonuses to saving throws based off constitution. This table explains the benefits. Generally speaking, you should maximize your constitution on any of these races. If you boost constitution permanently and it's the difference between gaining another bonus to saving throws, you will adopt the bonus to throws upon leveling up.
As a final note, you only gain constitution bonuses on levels you gain a full Hit Dice for hp. What this means is when you roll the dice to determine new HP. Thieves, Bards, Mages and Sorcerers roll a hit dice for 10 levels while everyone else only does so for 9.
Intelligence:
Intelligence is most important for Mages and Bards as it determines your maximum amount of spells known per level and your ability to scribe scrolls into your spellbook. Also, you need at least 9 INT to read scrolls at all, so your divine spellcasters should aim to hit at least that earmark to utilize scrolls of healing and the like.
You should get this as high as possible on mages and bards because the more spells you know, the better. The BG2 engine allows you to circumvent spell scribe failure by lowering the difficulty to "Normal", but for those who desire an experience closer to how it was with Pen and Paper D&D, you really want your intelligence maxed because nothing is more frustrating than spending 5000g on a spell just to fail copying it to your spellbook. A good way to circumvent this scribe failure it so boost your intelligence by way of potions before attempting to write spells.
Other than that, Intelligence is part of the "lore" skill, which allows you to identify items at a glance. It is not terribly important. You only really "need" a single guy with good lore in your party to identify things at a glance, and even if you do not have someone with a high lore value, you can simply use the 1st level arcane spell "Identify" or spend 100g at most shops to get it identified. Penalties to lore begin at 9 and below, and bonuses begin at 15.
There is one instance where Intelligence influences gear you can equip:
As a last note, enemies in Baldur's Gate 2 known as "Mind Flayers" or "Illithids" damage your intelligence with every successful melee hit. When they reduce it to 0, your character instantly dies. I recommend going no lower than 7 as a result.
Wisdom:
Wisdom is most important for clerics and druids as it grants them a bonus number of spells they can cast per day.
Other than that, it is like intelligence in it affects "Lore" value. It is even less useful than intelligence on non-divine spellcasters because there are not enemies that kill you faster for having it low. Penalties to lore start at 9, bonuses begin at 15.
Because of the 3 Wisdom tomes, you can start with 7 wisdom and eventually no longer suffer a lore penalty if such a thing matters to you.
Rather than go into the nitty-gritty details of what bonus spells you gain, I will simply link to this table.
Many people argue high wisdom is important on mages because of the arcane spell "Limited Wish." The higher your wisdom, the more positive and less negative options show up. This can be circumvented with a potion of wisdom if you decide to utilize Wisdom as a dump stat.
Wisdom also has minor influence over a particular item you can equip:
Charisma:
High charisma grants you a bonus discount when buying goods, and there are certain NPCs in BG1 who refuse to follow you if your charisma is too low. Additionally, a handful of quests yield slightly better returns if you have high charisma and a few instances where you can avoid an otherwise difficult fight purely through dialogue. However, it does not affect combat in any way and the situations it affects are few and far between.
Many people claim high charisma affects NPC morale, meaning the higher your charisma, the less likely Khalid and Garrick are to suffer morale failure. However, evidence to confirm this behavior is anecdotal. I personally have never seen anything confirming such behavior as I have gone through the game utilizing guys with 3 Charisma and never suffered morale failures among my NPCs and I have played through games where I had 18 charisma and Khalid continually panicked.
Bonuses to NPC reaction begin at 13 while penalties begin at 9. Shop discounts begin at 16 charisma. You can never have a penalty to shop prices.
As it does not directly affect combat, many people opt to use Charisma as their dump stat. NPCs with high charisma can still get you the shop discount, after all. Still, it is worth not totally dumping it so you can recruit the likes of Kivan and Shar-Teel if for no other reason. Wisdom and Intelligence are generally a preferred dump stat for warriors and thieves.
I figured I would give a quick run-down so new players knew where to place each stat on their guy for maximum benefit. Note, I do not care if you want to "role-play" by stats. This is purely a discussion about what each stat does for your guy according to the game's engine.
Firstly, it is a well-known thing there is a tome to increase each stat by 1 permanently located throughout Baldur's Gate 1. A lot of people plan their characters around this for meta-game purposes, so I'd be remiss not to mention it. There's actually 3 wisdom tomes.
There are also a handful of ways stats are permanently affected in Baldur's Gate 2:
In Watcher's Keep, there is an encounter called the Machine of Lum the Mad and it allows you to boost each stat by one as well (but only once.) It is also quite a ways into it so it isn't advisable to attempt reaching it until you're at a higher level with your party. Halfway through Shadows of Amn, you have to give up a stat point of your choosing as part of the plot. At the tail end of Shadows of Amn, you are forced to make decisions to solve certain challenges. Most of them confer various stat bonuses one way or the other, but there is one instance which causes you to lose a point of Dexterity permanently. I wouldn't worry about that too much during character creation because by the time it happens, you will be extremely powerful regardless of your stats but the particularly meta-gamey minded people among you might plan ahead for these.
Final note: When I refer to "warrior classes," I mean fighters, rangers, paladins, barbarians or any multi-class combination involving said classes.
Strength:
Strength is important for anyone you plan on inflicting melee punishment with and also determines your character's carry capacity and potential gear. Note that bonuses to melee do not start in any way until 16 so you can get away with lower values on characters you do not wish to bring into melee such as wizards and druids.
Generally speaking, do not go below 10. It is a hassle to micro-manage weight distribution among your party when you have less than that because only 50 lbs. of gear capacity means you will likely be near max just from robes, two weapons and quick-slots full of potions.
Negatives to attack rolls do not start until you hit 7 or below strength. 8 is therefore the bare minimum value you should ever allow on your Bhaalspawn.
It's also worth mentioning "exceptional" strength. This is represented by a 18/##. Only warrior classes can obtain this bonus upon character creation. That number is factored by percentage dice and therefore go between 01 and 00 (00=100). The threshold for bonuses goes 01-50, 51-75, 76-90, 91-99 and lastly 00. That means there is no difference between a guy with 18/17 and 18/50.
If you plan to do melee at all, it is an important stat to boost as high as possible. Clerics and warrior classes should at minimum have 15 so they can equip full plate mail.
There is one item in BG1 and several in BG2 which simply set strength at a predetermined high value (18/00 and up). It's possible even if you make a character with high strength you'll eventually rely on those. Strength is easily "fixed" on a semi-permanent basis by utilizing the arcane spell "Strength," which grants 18/50 STR to any target you cast it upon. (Note: If you already have an exceptional strength value, ie: 18/41, casting this spell adds another 50 to the exceptional role boosting it to 18/91. If you have 19 strength or better, it lowers your strength.) It's only a level 2 spell and lasts for an hour per character level, so even when you first gain level 2 spells it will last long enough to get you through any single map segment in BG1. Clerics also get spells which simply set their strength value to a high 18/## roll although for shorter periods of time and with higher level spell slots.
Dexterity:
Dexterity is the most important stat in that every single class gains important benefits from it. Generally speaking, max it out on every last character you roll.
Each point above 14 grants additional Armor Class, meaning you are more difficult to hit. 7-14 dexterity has no differences between them at all, so if you do not care about lowering your armor class, you can safely go as low as 7 without penalty. You start to gain penalties to armor class and ranged attack rolls if you go 6 or below, so don't do it.
Additionally rolls of 16 or better grant a bonus to ranged attack rolls. It is important to boost this stat for anyone you plan on utilizing ranged weaponry with as a result.
As a final note, dexterity grants extra bonuses to thieving skills. You should max it on all your thieves, and this is why halflings and elves are so good at that class.
There are gauntlets you can find which simply set that character's dexterity value to 18. I recommend against relying on these to fix an otherwise poor dexterity score at least for your Bhaalspawn, simply because once he or she dies it's game over. There are a number of NPCs in both titles who desperately need the Gauntlets of Dexterity to be viable. Just like with strength, I recommend against relying on this item when you can simply click the reroll button until you finally get a roll you're happy with.
There are also potions which boost Dexterity to 18. They are a band-aid for low dexterity NPCs that last a good chunk of time at 15 turns.
Constitution:
Constitution is important for each class as it grants bonus hit points per level. However, it is limited in usefulness for any non-warrior class. Each point above 14 makes your character gain an additional hit point per level, but non-warriors are capped at just +2 HP per level. That means in terms of HP, there is no reason to go beyond 16 CON for your mages, thieves, clerics, etc. (Halflings, gnomes and dwarves may want to go beyond 16 constitution even as a thief or cleric for their saving throw bonuses as explained shortly.)
Warrior classes still gain bonus HP per constitution beyond 16. A dwarf fighter with 19 constitution gains +5 HP per level, which is pretty significant.
At 20 constitution, your character regenerates 1 HP every minute. It doesn't sound like much and rarely comes into play in combat. However, it does mean your guy will heal up to full upon resting, even if your clerics are out of healing spells.
Halflings, dwarves and gnomes all gain bonuses to saving throws based off constitution. This table explains the benefits. Generally speaking, you should maximize your constitution on any of these races. If you boost constitution permanently and it's the difference between gaining another bonus to saving throws, you will adopt the bonus to throws upon leveling up.
As a final note, you only gain constitution bonuses on levels you gain a full Hit Dice for hp. What this means is when you roll the dice to determine new HP. Thieves, Bards, Mages and Sorcerers roll a hit dice for 10 levels while everyone else only does so for 9.
Intelligence:
Intelligence is most important for Mages and Bards as it determines your maximum amount of spells known per level and your ability to scribe scrolls into your spellbook. Also, you need at least 9 INT to read scrolls at all, so your divine spellcasters should aim to hit at least that earmark to utilize scrolls of healing and the like.
You should get this as high as possible on mages and bards because the more spells you know, the better. The BG2 engine allows you to circumvent spell scribe failure by lowering the difficulty to "Normal", but for those who desire an experience closer to how it was with Pen and Paper D&D, you really want your intelligence maxed because nothing is more frustrating than spending 5000g on a spell just to fail copying it to your spellbook. A good way to circumvent this scribe failure it so boost your intelligence by way of potions before attempting to write spells.
Other than that, Intelligence is part of the "lore" skill, which allows you to identify items at a glance. It is not terribly important. You only really "need" a single guy with good lore in your party to identify things at a glance, and even if you do not have someone with a high lore value, you can simply use the 1st level arcane spell "Identify" or spend 100g at most shops to get it identified. Penalties to lore begin at 9 and below, and bonuses begin at 15.
There is one instance where Intelligence influences gear you can equip:
In Baldur's Gate 2, you can equip the NPC Keldorn's armor if you have at least 15 strength, 17 constitution, 12 intelligence and 18 charisma.
As a last note, enemies in Baldur's Gate 2 known as "Mind Flayers" or "Illithids" damage your intelligence with every successful melee hit. When they reduce it to 0, your character instantly dies. I recommend going no lower than 7 as a result.
Wisdom:
Wisdom is most important for clerics and druids as it grants them a bonus number of spells they can cast per day.
Other than that, it is like intelligence in it affects "Lore" value. It is even less useful than intelligence on non-divine spellcasters because there are not enemies that kill you faster for having it low. Penalties to lore start at 9, bonuses begin at 15.
Because of the 3 Wisdom tomes, you can start with 7 wisdom and eventually no longer suffer a lore penalty if such a thing matters to you.
Rather than go into the nitty-gritty details of what bonus spells you gain, I will simply link to this table.
Many people argue high wisdom is important on mages because of the arcane spell "Limited Wish." The higher your wisdom, the more positive and less negative options show up. This can be circumvented with a potion of wisdom if you decide to utilize Wisdom as a dump stat.
Wisdom also has minor influence over a particular item you can equip:
As a last note, multi-class mages should aim for at least 8 wisdom, or 11 if you plan on giving the wisdom tomes to other NPCs. Valygar's armor in BG2 is usable by an NPC with 6 strength, 18 dexterity and 11 wisdom. You can also cast arcane spells while wearing it, making it one of if not the best armors for a multi-class mage to equip.
Charisma:
High charisma grants you a bonus discount when buying goods, and there are certain NPCs in BG1 who refuse to follow you if your charisma is too low. Additionally, a handful of quests yield slightly better returns if you have high charisma and a few instances where you can avoid an otherwise difficult fight purely through dialogue. However, it does not affect combat in any way and the situations it affects are few and far between.
Many people claim high charisma affects NPC morale, meaning the higher your charisma, the less likely Khalid and Garrick are to suffer morale failure. However, evidence to confirm this behavior is anecdotal. I personally have never seen anything confirming such behavior as I have gone through the game utilizing guys with 3 Charisma and never suffered morale failures among my NPCs and I have played through games where I had 18 charisma and Khalid continually panicked.
Bonuses to NPC reaction begin at 13 while penalties begin at 9. Shop discounts begin at 16 charisma. You can never have a penalty to shop prices.
As it does not directly affect combat, many people opt to use Charisma as their dump stat. NPCs with high charisma can still get you the shop discount, after all. Still, it is worth not totally dumping it so you can recruit the likes of Kivan and Shar-Teel if for no other reason. Wisdom and Intelligence are generally a preferred dump stat for warriors and thieves.
Post edited by sandmanCCL on
37
Comments
It'd be cool if it was off Charisma. Eldoth and Garrick would be significantly better NPCs if that were the case.
Involves another aspect of the storyline which I won't specify but which everyone who has played the game would be aware of.
If you hadn't noticed, my rule of thumb is don't go below 7 on any stat. I'm only okay with it on Rangers, Paladins and Fighter/Druids simply because they are so incredibly stat-reliant in every other area.
Also I'm not sure what aspect of the storyline you're referring to. I don't recall the intelligence stat ever mattering for any plot reasons or dialogue choices.
First, only warriors roll for exceptional strength. Everybody should realize this quickly enough at character creation but it might be useful for a newbie planning his character to know that he can't have a pure class thief with 18/00 strength.
Second, if you include meta-gamey information as the one about the tomes, the Machine of LtM and the Ring of Human Influence, I'd mention the other items too that set your stats to a specific value, obliterating the need to have very high values there, if you want to go that route. I started to list them but thought better of it since it might be considered spoilers. Anyway, a hint that there are more such items and that someone who's interested can look them up wouldn't do any harm, I think.
I also can't believe I forgot to mention only warriors can get exceptional strength. I know I was thinking it when I was typing this all up but it somehow didn't make it to the page. Thanks, @HugoRune!
(then again, it's slight, but for beginners it might spoil a tiny bit)
Great review as always.
Some points of mine.
1. 'That means in terms of HP, there is no reason to go beyond 16 CON for your mages, thieves, clerics, etc.' I might add a clause that says specifically, 'unless you're a halfing, dwarf or gnome (see below).' It's just clearer that way. I might even bold it. This is a point many people miss. I know you describe it later but it's good to hammer it in early.
2. Potions of Genius are a common and useful way to boost Intelligence. This makes reading scrolls a snap! A strategy I often use is to pile up the scrolls, gulp down the potion and click and read them all while the game is on pause. These are particularly useful potions if you're a bard and don't have the luxury of maxing Int to 18.
3. Similarly, potions can boost DEX. Still not a good idea to make it a dump stat.
4. I think the Strength spell has a different effect on your Strength if your score is already exceptional. At least in tutu, I find my Strength is raised to 18/00 by a Strength spell if it is 18/50 or higher. (I'm pretty sure Strength of One still sets Strength to 18/75).
5. A brief note on how different races get ability modifiers may be important. EG: Half-orcs should never bother with exceptional strength, since they should just go for 19 strength anyway, which is superior.
6. I think Intelligence might also effect maze and charm person duration, but I am not certain. Something to check out.
7. What I'd love to see is a 'recommended stat spread' for each class. This would really help out newbies too. Maybe assume a 84 spread (common) or a 90 spread (exceptional). You can easily get a 90 without much re-rolling. Getting a 94 or higher takes forever.
Gonna go edit that in my post and make a thread about it in bugs. Good catch, man!
edit:
@Silence I edited in your suggestions about potions of agility and genius. I also toyed with the idea of doing a stat spread for each class and decided that'd be better off in another post explaining each class and what you should aim for. This post is already bloated and convoluted enough as is, you know?
@Medillen - Spoiler tag added
@sarevok57 - As this is designed more for newer players, I figure that is best left out. In fact, I've edited a lot of stuff I already put in there to make it a little more newb-friendly.
The Charisma used to determine morale is the charisma of the leading character in the party. So if you've got Imoen in the top slot, you'll have a better party morale over all than if you've got Khalid there.
Morale is also affected by other things as well, such as the strength of the enemies you're fighting, the time of day, the location of the battle, etc. It's entirely possible that you wouldn't ever see Khalid or Garrick run away simply because the odds were in the party's favor (which they frequently would be if you're playing the game carefully).
And I'm sorry but I just don't find it's worth it. A pure fighter is about the only viable charisma monkey simply because you can safely dump int and wis. I never even max it on Paladins simply because I usually need every last point I can milk out of INT/WIS/CHA to max the other stats which I believe are much more important.
I will edit in a blurb about that when I return from my evening. Just took a phone call and have to go which is the only reason I'm finishing this and not taking a moment to edit the other post.
I had 3 party members, me and Imoen at level 1 and Viconia and Kivan at level 2. I ventured to the Spider Wood (far east) to get some experience. I had never seen Kivan morale failure in my life, but several times trying to kill a Sword Spider at our ridiculously low levels he went morale failure.
The ONLY time it's remotely acceptable is if you are literally out of +2 ammo of every type, or you are landing a backstab. Chaotic Commands is your best friend. Utilize it. Abuse it. Kite to the best of your abilities, summon a bunch of wolves and skeletons to have their brains slurped out for you. Whittle away from range.
That said, it's more important to have intelligence than wisdom. I believe green scrolls can be read by anyone regardless of class as long as they have 9 INT.
It could be worth quaffing potions of mind focusing or genius before fighting them.