[Request] Re-working of the difficulty system

AzL0n

So I remember we've all talked about it over at beamdog and I think we all agreed that the difficulty system is very sloppy and needs reworking. The hardcore mode does nothing except that your characters take more damage when hit and that's just plain stupid because it makes the game way too hard but not hard in a fun way. It makes the Nashkel mines extremely irritating since you can't even take an arrow without dying. That's not the kind of difficulty people want. I've got my own suggestions for the hardcore mode.

Save only and sleep only in inns: A lot of people like to play no reload and I'm sure lots of others would like there to be an option that would make it so that you're not constantly saving and reloading. I know you don't have to play like that if you don't want to but just the fact that you can cheapens the experience for me. Personally I always play no-reload so I would play and when I'm done go off to an inn to save and quit. Same thing with sleeping. I don't think sleeping in dungeons is realistic and I want the hardcore option to make it so that you can only sleep in inns. Sleeping all the time is dull and takes the Epicness away from the game. I want at the end of the dungeon to be at the very limit of my ressources and to have exausted all of my spells and for my crew to be tired and battered for that final epic fight. Of course a lot of people don't want to play like this hence why I think it should just be for the players that checked the hardcore mode. Also sleeping only in inns option would take away the temptation to camp that flesh golem cave for the endless experience and would force hardcore players to do the quests instead if they want to level up.

No reroll option: So at character creation you're free to reroll as much as you want until you get these perfect stats. In hardcore mode you couldn't reroll and would be stuck with the first stats that you rolled just as it would be in PNP D&D. Sure players would be free to exit the game creation screen and to start over which would take about 10 seconds but the process would be very tiresome and well, if players have chosen that option I don't see why they would do it anyway.

Add AD&D's constitution maluses to resurrection: So if I recall correctly, when characters were brought back to life in AD&D they had to do a saving throw which if they failed would lose one point of constitution. I would like to see that implemented into hardcore mode. As it is, even when I'm playing a no reload, the death of my comrades has very little impact granted that they haven't been annihilated. It's nothing more than an annoyance but it provides no emotional impact since I know I'll only have to carry their stuff, bring them to the temple, pay 200 gold and they'll be back to me with absolutely no inconvenience. Adding this rule would be being faithful to 2nd edition D&D and would make it a lot more exciting for us hardcore players who like to feel like there are real stakes in death.

To me that's what a hardcore mode is really all about.

Alright I'll add more later. Any more suggestions from my fellow hardcore gamers?

Winthal

This is almost exactly what I'd want for the game as well.

The way alot of players tend to play is to maximize efficiency (me included), which means we quick save alot, and things like resting in the middle of a dungeon becomes a no-brainer - after all, if you die you simply make a reload. The more you play it seems that the Heroes greatest power isn't their prowess and heroism, but rather a secret time traveling spell that let's them re-do past events.

I played Baldur's Gate the same way for many years, but during my last play through about a year ago, I tried to challenge myself by playing "hardcore" with no reloads, and permanent player death. What happened was, suddenly sh*t got real. Every encounter was a possible end to the game, resting in the wilderness was downright suicidal, and finding an Inn to rest at was always a welcome sight - safety at last. I found I became alot more creative with my party and items, using potions and wands more often instead of just hoarding the stuff. Another thing that was awesome was that I had to keep playing even after party members died, carrying them with their gear to the nearest temple for a resurrection spell - and if bad luck would strike and someone would die from a critical hit, they would be lost forever and I would have to find a replacement character.

As you said, this type of playstyle isn't for everyone, so it makes perfect sense to implement it as a selectable difficulty level.

AzL0n

''The more you play it seems that the Heroes greatest power isn't their prowess and heroism, but rather a secret time traveling spell that let's them re-do past events.''

hehehe... well said

Anton

It shouldn't be completely separate difficulty I think. Perhaps an "Iron mode" checkbox in Advanced Option.

BTW. We already have similar topic: Would people like an Ironman mode?


P.S. @Corriander perhaps this discussion and Would people like an Ironman mode? should be merged into 1.

AzL0n

Yeah checkboxes work too, actually it's probably better since not everyone will agree with my idea of hardcore.

sarevok57

i also agree on that "iron mode" check box ma-who's-it thats more of a preference not really a difficulty increase, a higher difficulty setting should be making AI better, giving them more spells per day, making their hit dice higher, giving them a bonus to hit ( the double damage is fine in my opinion) and as i said on another thread, give enemy casters improved alacrity, that is higher difficulty, its not preference because you cant go up to a hobgoblin and say: excuse me chap, you are weak and useless in this world, and i need you to man up for a bit if you would please, so please smack me harder and more effectively would you please? infact take this +3 beserking two handed sword i carry around just to make it so you fellows actually feel like you have some meaning in this silly little world of ours, *hobgoblin takes sword* why thank you my good man, now smackity smack smack like me all silly nilly and give me a challenge

Space_hamster

Double damage is the easiest way to increase difficulty across the whole gameworld...if one thinks about it. It makes every encounter more challenging without having to change spell or item stats. Similarly, resting in dungeons or ouside is offset by the increased chance of being interrupted by bandits or monsters. Sleeping ouside is a risk.

Sleeping in dungeons is also a risk, but its also realistic. There are few towns in BG, if one could only rest in an inn, how realistic would that be?

Anyway, the thing with BG I is that it sticks to D&D 2nd edition rules quite closely. Viewed in this light, many of the game design decisions make sense.

AzL0n

@space_hamster

Regardless I'd like to have an option for sleep in inns only. I personally find it extremely tedious to just rest anywhere anytime and I also find it tedious to get awakened when trying to do so and to do it over and over again until you can get some proper sleep. I don't like getting awakened in part because I hate the way enemies just appear randomly somewhere around you instead of looking like they were coming towards you as in a patrol or something. They just appear. I don't like it.

I find double damage to be a lame and lazy way to increase difficulty. If you've ever played it you'll know that it's inevitable to get shot by an arrow once in a while and it's incredibly annoying to have even your warriors in their full plates die at the first hit. I find character's HP's low enough when starting the game, I.E Xzar has 4 at the beginning and he dies on the first hit most of the time as it is.

Anyway those are options that I'd like to see them add. It's not for everyone but I'm sure a lot of people would like to play that way.

sarevok57

@AzLOn, actually i dont think its possible for Xzar to do in one hit, 99% of the time when he takes damage at level 1 i always see that someone did 3 damage to him, and im like hmmmmm........ this is the hardest difficulty, and someone did 3? so i guess they were supposed to do 1.5 damage normally? ballin

Winthal

Actually, simply giving enemies more HP is more interesting than giving them double damage imo. Having enemies last longer means they will have more time to deal extra damage, or cast more nasty spells etc. the only drawback of this is the realism of a normal bandit being able to take five bastard sword to the head before dying... but the same could be said for any MMO out there.

Space_hamster

Double hit points and double damage would be brutal! I would play the game tiptoeing my way hiding in shadows! Maybe I'm a bit of a masochist but it sounds like fun! If not a game mode, we should make it a mod!

ElectricMonk

@Winthal I always install a mod that gives all creatures in the game (excluding PC and joinable NPCs) their maximum possible hit points, it's definitely a bit more difficult when everything has more staying power.

Winthal

@jaysl659 interesting if you think about it, BG is actually a pretty difficult game, monsters already hit pretty hard - but they also go down pretty quick. Just imagine if those longbow bandits in BG1 didn't die from 1-2 hits, but could take 10... one single bandit ambush with around 6-10 bandits would probably result in a party wipe if you weren't prepared for it, or the mages got hit first before being able to put up the proper defenses...