@WillyML4 I hope you guys get to cancel your pre-orders of the CE, and if Beamdog refuses, I'll seriously buy them from you if you don't like having it around.
I do think however that's it's both unreasonable to want this refund and unreasonable to expect it and that's what i'm expressing.
@WillyML4 I hope you guys get to cancel your pre-orders of the CE, and if Beamdog refuses, I'll seriously buy them from you if you don't like having it around.
I do think however that's it's both unreasonable to want this refund and unreasonable to expect it and that's what i'm expressing.
Duly noted, but it's our money and Beamdog has the final decision.
@Heavyline Isn't that the principle, and the risk, of preordering though? I understand it's annoying to put $175 into something and then be disappointed, but maybe you shouldn't have put $175 into it in the first place?
You're absolutely right. It was stupid to go against my principle. I made a mistake and I learned from it.... in a very hard way.
The thing is... I've loved Baldur's Gate series the past 16 years. I was looking forward to this expansion more than any other releases. During the past years with game releases, I've learned to be more cautious. However, my expectations were unreasonably high with Siege of Dragonspear. When Beamdog announced "Siege of Dragonspear - Collector's Edition" box on March 3rd. I was sold. It was something I thought I never see a daylight again. Expansion of my favorite game in physical copy, with amulet, cloth map, books, dice bag, coin, soundtrack... The teenager in me who loved Baldur's Gate and couldn't afford Collector's Edition boxes in early 2000s was hyped, excited, clapping hands together in extreme joy. At that time I didn't even think the expansion could be disappointing. Not only that. When the selling words were said during Beamdog's livestream on Twitch; "These are very limited edition", "once they're sold, they're gone forever", "there are were very few available". I didn't even think twice. I didn't want to miss the Collector's Edition box. I had to get it before it was sold out... and it was never sold out.
Not only that. When the selling words were said during Beamdog's livestream on Twitch; "These are very limited edition", "once they're sold, they're gone forever", "there are were very few available". I didn't even think twice. I didn't want to miss the Collector's Edition box. I had to get it before it was sold out... and it was never sold out. The things you do for the things you love...
Right. It was never limited edition. If it was, we wouldn't be waiting until the summer.
Having played the game through, I will say I enjoyed it. I rolled my eyes at Mizhena because it was blatant, and then went over to talk to Minsc and moved on with my life, so this controversy is hardly a pebble in my shoe. The new characters are all a lot of fun and I'd be happy to see any of them in BG2 (MiKhiin first and Volghiln last), the characterisation of a lot of the already existing characters was pretty awesome, the new gear was like a 20-hour christmas special, and the new voice sets were very, very welcome indeed (though I want them on BG2 before I give them full credit). The big fights were grand, the personal quests were interesting (Khalid's in particular, while simple, was quite heartwarming), and the moral challenge presented by the Shining Lady was a wonderful addition.
There is, however, an awful lot that is currently very disappointing about the game and its presentation, from the getting locked out of places with no warning, to the underwhelming Shaman, to the bonus character (don't ask, it's not worth considering), to the minimal items and no characters that import to BG2. A lot of this could be fixed in patches, and I really hope they are.
Personally, I'm keeping my pre-order. Call it my idiot tax for believing that Baldur's Gate, at least, could rise above the crap so common in gaming these days. I will just have to think of it as the most expensive set of dice I've ever bought.
That's a pretty bad analogy; in your analogy, you actually eat the entire meal.
In my actual case, I have not yet received anything, physical nor virtual. Also, it has moved beyond JUST the smudge on the napkin; it's become about much more; finding out that the restaurant managers have business practices I do not, out of pure principle, wish to support.
So it would be more akin to driving to a the restaurant (really hungry and excited), but then you hear about their bad business practices on the radio, and you turn the car around and head back home instead.
Then allow a writer to addend the analogy for you. In this we are making the bizarre assumption that this restaurant is pay-before-you-eat to represent the consumer market for video-games.
Thaudal walks into a restaurant. Thaudal orders Chicken Penne with Alfredo, and is quite excited for the meal, so he pays a little extra for more cheese and a side of cinnamon sticks. Of course, one has to wait for their meal at a restaurant, and sometimes the wait comes a little more delayed than usual and typically with an accompanied 'sorry for the wait,' but Thaudal starts to hear something off to his right that ushers this knowledge from the forefront of his mind.
What is it? It's a young girl complaining about her penne. At first, Thaudal can't truly make out what it is she is complaining about, but he hears some praise and other complaints about the food, all focused around one particular facet of the food; their fork. The fork is clean, but the outer two prongs on every fork are bent out and down, making for an odd look and perhaps a slight difference in how easy it is to jab the food with the fork. Thaudal, outraged that the forks could be so odd, decides not to wait for the food, and asks for a refund of all of his money.
I don't necessarily agree with the stance this analogy takes, but it IS indicative of the situation at hand. It is most certainly your right to ask for a refund, especially as you haven't had the product to depreciate its value. To me, the reason one is turned off of a product shouldn't be a concern for others, but I will agree that this particular bent fork isn't worth the heartache.
I digress. I'm essentially just painting the thought process in a funnier light. Who doesn't like to write a little blurb about Penne? Penne is amazing.
I was just now told too that I can't because I was already sent a key. However, that's complete bullshit, because I was not sent any box yet, and I also paid for shipping. I paid a total of $175 including shipping, so they should be able to simply subtract the cost of a key ($20) and DON'T send me the box - that's still a refund of $155.
@Thaudal I agree with you on that. I got the same response and they refuse to cancel my order or give at least a partial refund...
Not only that. The steam key I got with the Collector's Edition is not even redeemed/used.
Don't give up fighting. Iam now waiting for another response from Costumer Service and Paypal to resolve this dispute. Beamdog should at least have some courtesy WHEN they're even going to send that CE-box. If at all. Still no news on that either.
You didn't purchase the collector's edition because of how you "knew" how Beamdog would act in various future events. You purchased it because based on how they've done in the past with BG and BG2, you thought there was a high probability that they would do extremely well with SoD. And justifiably so. But expecting a refund and then contacting paypal to push this further is absolutely ridiculous. That's like buying a stock because you expect it to go up, but upon finding out the stock isn't performing as well as expected, you request to get your money back.
But for argument's sake, I'm going to set all of that aside and calculate the equity of the portions you don't enjoy, so you can, in a very calm and logical manner, politely request a refund for the portions of the game that you feel you shouldn't have to pay for. Calculations will be based upon the following four criteria:
- The standard downloadable version, valued at $19.99, contains 30+ hours of gameplay - All of the additional content provided by the Collector's Edition is unchanged because of the Mizhena/Minsc non-issue - Assuming you're a very slow read and also assuming you accidentally click on each conversation piece even after knowing the outcome, it could take up to 30 seconds of having to read about "shoehorning"... but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and count a full minute - Minsc gives you no equity in this calculation. A future patch is taking it out along with many other "bug fixes"
So, we have:
(30 hours)(60 minutes) = 1,800 minutes of gameplay
(cost of game) * (ratio time spent in undesirable dialogue) = ($19.99) * (0.000555) = $0.0111
In conclusion, Beamdog is in no way obligated to refund any portion of your purchase, however, if they really wanted to make sure everyone's needs are met, it would be generous if they were willing to extend an olive branch and refund each of you an entire 2 cents. This not only shows that they care about their customer base, but also that they are more than willing to give you almost twice as much as the cost of the undesirable dialogue, just to show that the customer is, in fact, always right.
I asked for a refund too, since the changes added via the latest patch made BG1 and 2 completely unplayable for me. Been a week now. They still haven't even bothered to reply.
(cost of game) * (ratio time spent in undesirable dialogue) = ($19.99) * (0.000555) = $0.0111
.
Here we go again. Assuming I want a refund because of some goddamn controversy that has nothing to do with my opinion here. What's your point? I've paid $60 for games at the release day and I've mostly got my money's worth. Most of these games are less than 10 hours long. It's not about hours of content. It's more about how much do you enjoy the hours you're playing.
I really do not want to wish to repeat myself to death in here.
I asked the Steam Key for Collector's Edition before the release just to see if I can get it faster than it becomes available for purchase. Since there was no pre-order available on Steam.
The steam key didn't come in time. So I bought the expansion immediately on steam when it hit the stores. Have I requested the refund on Steam too? NO. $20 is just fine for the game, even if I don't enjoy it. It's not a bad expansion... It was just something I did not personally enjoy.
The Steam key came few hours after release, but since I already bought the game on Steam. I didn't use it. I almost gave it to a friend as a gift, but I left it unused after I realized how disappointed I was with the expansion. I thought to myself; "Man... I think I should ask for refund. $175 is alot money and I really don't need that box afterall. This game is just worth that much".
I tire of this. This is why I didn't want to make this public. After I saw the controversy overwhelming these forums, I just knew that people are going to point fingers at me, assuming I want my $175 back because I didn't like that one character is transgender. No. This is all about buyer's remorse and fanboy's disappointment in general. Iam happy to support Beamdog with my $20 for the expansion alone. I'll probably buy it for my NVIDIA Shield too since I have BG:EE, BG2:EE and IWD:EE in there as well.
I'll just wait and see what happens next. Will I get some of my money back. Or am I forced to take the box and sell it to someone. (I may keep the dices though).
Could someone please lock this thread? There's no reason for this discussion to go any further.
Comments
I do think however that's it's both unreasonable to want this refund and unreasonable to expect it and that's what i'm expressing.
The thing is... I've loved Baldur's Gate series the past 16 years. I was looking forward to this expansion more than any other releases. During the past years with game releases, I've learned to be more cautious. However, my expectations were unreasonably high with Siege of Dragonspear. When Beamdog announced "Siege of Dragonspear - Collector's Edition" box on March 3rd. I was sold. It was something I thought I never see a daylight again. Expansion of my favorite game in physical copy, with amulet, cloth map, books, dice bag, coin, soundtrack... The teenager in me who loved Baldur's Gate and couldn't afford Collector's Edition boxes in early 2000s was hyped, excited, clapping hands together in extreme joy. At that time I didn't even think the expansion could be disappointing. Not only that. When the selling words were said during Beamdog's livestream on Twitch; "These are very limited edition", "once they're sold, they're gone forever", "there are were very few available". I didn't even think twice. I didn't want to miss the Collector's Edition box. I had to get it before it was sold out... and it was never sold out.
I hope you understand.
The things you do for the things you love...
Having played the game through, I will say I enjoyed it. I rolled my eyes at Mizhena because it was blatant, and then went over to talk to Minsc and moved on with my life, so this controversy is hardly a pebble in my shoe. The new characters are all a lot of fun and I'd be happy to see any of them in BG2 (MiKhiin first and Volghiln last), the characterisation of a lot of the already existing characters was pretty awesome, the new gear was like a 20-hour christmas special, and the new voice sets were very, very welcome indeed (though I want them on BG2 before I give them full credit). The big fights were grand, the personal quests were interesting (Khalid's in particular, while simple, was quite heartwarming), and the moral challenge presented by the Shining Lady was a wonderful addition.
There is, however, an awful lot that is currently very disappointing about the game and its presentation, from the getting locked out of places with no warning, to the underwhelming Shaman, to the bonus character (don't ask, it's not worth considering), to the minimal items and no characters that import to BG2. A lot of this could be fixed in patches, and I really hope they are.
Personally, I'm keeping my pre-order. Call it my idiot tax for believing that Baldur's Gate, at least, could rise above the crap so common in gaming these days. I will just have to think of it as the most expensive set of dice I've ever bought.
Thaudal walks into a restaurant. Thaudal orders Chicken Penne with Alfredo, and is quite excited for the meal, so he pays a little extra for more cheese and a side of cinnamon sticks. Of course, one has to wait for their meal at a restaurant, and sometimes the wait comes a little more delayed than usual and typically with an accompanied 'sorry for the wait,' but Thaudal starts to hear something off to his right that ushers this knowledge from the forefront of his mind.
What is it? It's a young girl complaining about her penne. At first, Thaudal can't truly make out what it is she is complaining about, but he hears some praise and other complaints about the food, all focused around one particular facet of the food; their fork. The fork is clean, but the outer two prongs on every fork are bent out and down, making for an odd look and perhaps a slight difference in how easy it is to jab the food with the fork. Thaudal, outraged that the forks could be so odd, decides not to wait for the food, and asks for a refund of all of his money.
I don't necessarily agree with the stance this analogy takes, but it IS indicative of the situation at hand. It is most certainly your right to ask for a refund, especially as you haven't had the product to depreciate its value. To me, the reason one is turned off of a product shouldn't be a concern for others, but I will agree that this particular bent fork isn't worth the heartache.
I digress. I'm essentially just painting the thought process in a funnier light. Who doesn't like to write a little blurb about Penne? Penne is amazing.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=EdzqTGmEcZE
Anyone else heard anything?
Yeah don't give me up! This can't be right.
However, that's complete bullshit, because I was not sent any box yet, and I also paid for shipping.
I paid a total of $175 including shipping, so they should be able to simply subtract the cost of a key ($20) and DON'T send me the box - that's still a refund of $155.
Not only that. The steam key I got with the Collector's Edition is not even redeemed/used.
Don't give up fighting. Iam now waiting for another response from Costumer Service and Paypal to resolve this dispute. Beamdog should at least have some courtesy WHEN they're even going to send that CE-box. If at all. Still no news on that either.
But for argument's sake, I'm going to set all of that aside and calculate the equity of the portions you don't enjoy, so you can, in a very calm and logical manner, politely request a refund for the portions of the game that you feel you shouldn't have to pay for. Calculations will be based upon the following four criteria:
- The standard downloadable version, valued at $19.99, contains 30+ hours of gameplay
- All of the additional content provided by the Collector's Edition is unchanged because of the Mizhena/Minsc non-issue
- Assuming you're a very slow read and also assuming you accidentally click on each conversation piece even after knowing the outcome, it could take up to 30 seconds of having to read about "shoehorning"... but I'll go ahead and give you the benefit of the doubt and count a full minute
- Minsc gives you no equity in this calculation. A future patch is taking it out along with many other "bug fixes"
So, we have:
(30 hours)(60 minutes) = 1,800 minutes of gameplay
(Time spent on Mizhena) / (total gameplay) = (1 minute) / (1,800 minutes) = 0.0005555...
(cost of game) * (ratio time spent in undesirable dialogue) = ($19.99) * (0.000555) = $0.0111
In conclusion, Beamdog is in no way obligated to refund any portion of your purchase, however, if they really wanted to make sure everyone's needs are met, it would be generous if they were willing to extend an olive branch and refund each of you an entire 2 cents. This not only shows that they care about their customer base, but also that they are more than willing to give you almost twice as much as the cost of the undesirable dialogue, just to show that the customer is, in fact, always right.
But that's just my two cents...
Also, how long did you leave it between using the key and requesting the refund?
I really do not want to wish to repeat myself to death in here.
I asked the Steam Key for Collector's Edition before the release just to see if I can get it faster than it becomes available for purchase. Since there was no pre-order available on Steam.
The steam key didn't come in time. So I bought the expansion immediately on steam when it hit the stores. Have I requested the refund on Steam too? NO. $20 is just fine for the game, even if I don't enjoy it. It's not a bad expansion... It was just something I did not personally enjoy.
The Steam key came few hours after release, but since I already bought the game on Steam. I didn't use it. I almost gave it to a friend as a gift, but I left it unused after I realized how disappointed I was with the expansion. I thought to myself; "Man... I think I should ask for refund. $175 is alot money and I really don't need that box afterall. This game is just worth that much".
I tire of this. This is why I didn't want to make this public. After I saw the controversy overwhelming these forums, I just knew that people are going to point fingers at me, assuming I want my $175 back because I didn't like that one character is transgender. No. This is all about buyer's remorse and fanboy's disappointment in general. Iam happy to support Beamdog with my $20 for the expansion alone. I'll probably buy it for my NVIDIA Shield too since I have BG:EE, BG2:EE and IWD:EE in there as well.
I'll just wait and see what happens next. Will I get some of my money back. Or am I forced to take the box and sell it to someone. (I may keep the dices though).
Could someone please lock this thread? There's no reason for this discussion to go any further.