Multiclassing a caster - help!

Grim_22

Hello!

I'm new here, and I desperately need some advice - I'm planning a playthrough of the entire saga, and I just can't decide how to make my character. Here's the deal:

I want to play mage, but I want to at least have the option to use swords and bows. For several reasons that I won't bore you with, I don't want to dual class. I've two concerns about multiclassing, though:

1. How does caster level work when multiclassing a fighter/mage? Say I reach the cap, which would be 24/20 - would it look at my mage level when determining the power of my spells? How crippling is that by that time, compared to a single class mage?

2. How many mage HLAs would I get? Two? Will I only start to access lvl 9 spells by the end of ToB?

Man, I've been going back and forth about this for a day now! I really want to focus on the mage part, but I really want more options than staves and daggers... I know, I know - low-level fighter dual class to mage. Won't cut it though, I'm afraid

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

Jaheiras_Witness

Your caster level is your mage level. This is an issue while you progress, not at the end, because caster level caps at 20 for the majority of spells (there are a few exceptions). So the issue is when you are say a level 11/13 fighter mage when a pure mage would be say level 15.

You need to hit level 18 mage (6m XP total) before you can use mage HLAs. You should be able to get several mage HLAs (because you can also take them when you level up as a fighter) but as you say, this will be very late in ToB so you won't get great value from them.

Hope that helps.

joluv

1. It would look at your Mage level, and it would not be substantially crippling.

2. You'll get an HLA every time either class levels up once your total XP hits 3,000,000. So 18 HLAs total. Level 9 spells come at level 18, which might happen pretty late in ToB, depending on the size of your party, etc.

Multiclass Fighter/Mages can use all weapon types.

Grim_22

Cool, thanks guys. Well, I'm glad that caster level isn't as crippling as I'd imagined. So when would a pure mage get access to level 9 spells? Late SoA?

Jaheiras_Witness

Yes

Lord_Tansheron

Grim_22 said:

I really want to focus on the mage part, but I really want more options than staves and daggers... I know, I know - low-level fighter dual class to mage. Won't cut it though, I'm afraid

Why won't it cut it? You lose some HP on the early Fighter dual (as well as some kit bonuses), but since Mage has a plethora of excellent defensive spells, that isn't that big of a deal. You'll have higher level spells more quickly than a multi, and you also retain Grand Mastery potential. If you dual from Kensai or Berserker (probably better for low level dual in BG1) you also get a nice kit ability.

If you want to focus on the mage, that seems to just scream dual. Multiclass will spread your XP evenly, but dual allows you to shift towards the part you prefer.

Other than that, if you do go multiclass it would probably be advisable to go Gnome, as you'll be Fighter/Illusionist that way and gain some nice extra slots as well as roll bonuses.

Grim_22

Lord_Tansheron said:

Grim_22 said:

I really want to focus on the mage part, but I really want more options than staves and daggers... I know, I know - low-level fighter dual class to mage. Won't cut it though, I'm afraid

Why won't it cut it? You lose some HP on the early Fighter dual (as well as some kit bonuses), but since Mage has a plethora of excellent defensive spells, that isn't that big of a deal. You'll have higher level spells more quickly than a multi, and you also retain Grand Mastery potential. If you dual from Kensai or Berserker (probably better for low level dual in BG1) you also get a nice kit ability.

If you want to focus on the mage, that seems to just scream dual. Multiclass will spread your XP evenly, but dual allows you to shift towards the part you prefer.

Other than that, if you do go multiclass it would probably be advisable to go Gnome, as you'll be Fighter/Illusionist that way and gain some nice extra slots as well as roll bonuses.

Well, the thing is, I'm absolutely in love with Wild Mage and can't imagine playing without it. Not for the perks, but for the odds of screwing myself over with every spell. I'm masochistic that way, I guess. And hey, flying cows?

Problem with that is, making a dual class Fighter/Wild Mage is just really a hassle in keeper, and as far as I know might cause some nasty bugs. Making a multiclass Fighter/Wild Mage on the other hand, is straightforward and simple - the game more or less takes care of everything for you when you level up the first time, assuming you started the character as a Wild Mage and changed it to kitted F/M with keeper.

Edit: Oh, I might add - I'm not at all trying to powergame here - if it was possible, I'd play a level 3 fighter dualled to a wild mage. I really despise the cheesy possibilities the multiclass opens up, but it feels like a better alternative than playing a straight Wild Mage and adding Use Any Item and proficiencies I shouldn't be able to have, just to use more weapons.

marzbarz

fig/mage or thief/mage multiclasses and you get access to both the hla's of each class. Dunno how many total you can pick though.

If you want the thief stuff go that route, but a fig/mage will have more specialty using a bow/sword.

flekeldanzar

Try out an Elven fighter/mage multiclass. Elves have an innate +1 THACO with all bows, shortswords and longswords. Roll for an 18:xx strength (ideally an 18:76+ or greater) and a 19 dexterity for the +3 ranged THACO bonus. Drop two proficiency points in long bows for an additional +1 hit/+2 dmg and try to acquire a composite longbow as quickly as possible. There are many powerful longswords and shortswords throughout the entire series, so consider taking advantage of your racial passive and dropping proficiency points into those weapon categories as well. Single weapon style gets a bad wrap because it doesn't have the same end-game potential as dual wielding, but the bonus to critical range and the extra defense it provides are invaluable at early levels and scale reasonably well even into higher levels.

Elven fighter/mage multiclasses provide for a forgiving early game experience because they start out with a very low ranged THACO, a high damage output, and a low base armor class. The character plays intuitively and has a very steady leveling curve i.e. they never feel like they are in a lull because they will constantly be acquiring new spell slots, accruing more hitpoints and gaining more proficiency points as they level. Late game they will only have one or two 9th level casts per day but I've found this to be sufficiently powerful for Throne of Bhaal as the majority of the most powerful offensive and defensive spells reside at lower levels.

You will be sacrificing some of the raw magical power provided by the wildmage class, but I think you'll find that this class set-up adequately substitutes magical potency with combat flexibility. A final note: I've dual classed fighter mages multiple times and I've always found them rather difficult to work with at mid-levels -- all for the benefit of being completely overpowered by the end of the game. Though I suppose dual-classing at level three would provide you with a slightly better THACO and a few more hitpoints than a pure mage, you're losing out on the additional attacks per round granted to mid-level fighters and the fighter HLAs in ToB.

Lord_Tansheron

Grim_22 said:

Edit: Oh, I might add - I'm not at all trying to powergame here - if it was possible, I'd play a level 3 fighter dualled to a wild mage.

This should be very easy to do with EEKeeper. Just add your WM kit straight after dualing, and you should be good to go. From what I remember, there are no special affect flags or anything you need to take care of, it should work pretty much exactly as it does with a multi if you EEKeeper the kit in.

Might be better for WM to dual since your level is added to the roll on NRD, and it will be higher than that of a multi. Plus, Grand Mastery.

You can dual as early as lvl 2, not sure you even need to go to Fighter 3.

Grim_22

Lord_Tansheron said:

Grim_22 said:

Edit: Oh, I might add - I'm not at all trying to powergame here - if it was possible, I'd play a level 3 fighter dualled to a wild mage.

This should be very easy to do with EEKeeper. Just add your WM kit straight after dualing, and you should be good to go. From what I remember, there are no special affect flags or anything you need to take care of, it should work pretty much exactly as it does with a multi if you EEKeeper the kit in.

Might be better for WM to dual since your level is added to the roll on NRD, and it will be higher than that of a multi. Plus, Grand Mastery.

You can dual as early as lvl 2, not sure you even need to go to Fighter 3.

The way I understand it, I won't get access to the WMs bonus spell slots if I do this, and I'll have to add them myself with keeper every level, which just feels wrong. Am I mistaken? If I am, then man... you've just made my day. Oh, and level 3 would be for the extra proficiency point.

Lord_Tansheron

IIRC you only need to manually set the very first bonus spell slot, and additional ones should appear as intended while you level up after you've set the kit.

It's been a while since I did it, but I'm fairly sure that was how it went.

Lvl2 or 3 isn't that big of a difference, very possible the prof point is actually worth it.

Clumsy_Dwarf

I have always though there was a bit more synergy with a mage thief over a fighter mage. You do not use armor as a mage but can get close to a thief's AC. A thief is useful out of combat and with backstab and the mages power is buffing and tossing spells in combat so you are always doing stuff with your protagonist. Casting stoneskin before you stealth for the backstab will mean you can get away from your target.

Grim_22

Lord_Tansheron said:

IIRC you only need to manually set the very first bonus spell slot, and additional ones should appear as intended while you level up after you've set the kit.

It's been a while since I did it, but I'm fairly sure that was how it went.

Lvl2 or 3 isn't that big of a difference, very possible the prof point is actually worth it.

I will definitely investigate this, thanks Tansheron!

Edit: Sadly, that does not seem to be the case. If you change the kit after a dual to mage, you do not get the bonus spell slots at any level.

Clumsy_Dwarf said:

I have always though there was a bit more synergy with a mage thief over a fighter mage. You do not use armor as a mage but can get close to a thief's AC. A thief is useful out of combat and with backstab and the mages power is buffing and tossing spells in combat so you are always doing stuff with your protagonist. Casting stoneskin before you stealth for the backstab will mean you can get away from your target.

I've heard differing opinions on this. Others say the opposite, though I've been interested in trying one personally. Are there any other bonuses besides the nice opportunities for backstab?