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Reactionary Gamers.

loganultimaloganultima Member Posts: 109
Is it wrong to criticize a game for featuring one line of politically correct text in 50 hours of content?

The games before 2007 have had little to no 'politically correct' influence. Games used to be all about the story and the gameplay and about having fun.

This is one reason why old games are still better than "modern" ones.

The development of Siege of Dragonspear jumped on the bandwagon of the social justice warriors (they wanted to please this part of the community with a minor "easter egg" ) and got tanked by user reviews. For a good reason. Why ruin a great game with crap that you know breaks immersion and pisses off gamers? I've been browsing the forums on this issue and before you flood the post with "intolerant bigot" I want to attach this picture of a guy's reply to such a reaction.



Yes, it is a single line in 50 hour of game content. Surprised that the community reacts in such a way? You shouldn't be, over the past 8 years this swj infection has ruined so many games that being allergic to it is a natural social reaction.

A lot of people are saying that the game is attacked by a vocal minority of swj haters and lgbt haters. We have to understand the fact that we (who criticize) are accused by the deeds that the accusers themselves commit. SWJ and LGBT were/are a vocal minority of haters who frequently throw child-like tantrums if games don't contain gay romance or "diversity" and attempt to nit-pick any "sexist" addition. Just look at Pillars of Eternity scandal with the tombstone tranny joke.

Now this vocal minority is getting a dose of its own medicine. I haven't played SoD yet I am still re-playing Enhanced Edition, this post isn't about the game itself but rather the industry and where it's heading.

Why break the immersion with this easter egg? this guy gets has the same idea:




I hope this'll be a lesson to other devs too. Piss a community long enough with injections of political correctness and they will eventually become reactionary.

Post edited by loganultima on
RatcliffflekeldanzarJustLeftspacehamzterhelmo1977JorkanBenjamin_the_Rogue

Comments

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    This is the post I was waiting for.

    Beamdog should have left well enough alone. Just imagine if they didn't knowingly and openly piss off GG how much better things could have been for this game and the franchise.

    Osigoldminsc4prez
  • booinyoureyesbooinyoureyes Member Posts: 6,162
    Do we really need multiple threads on this? Especially threads with captions from other threads? It is taking over the whole board.

    joluvKrotosKalesraArdul
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    Its wrong when it happened to pillars of eternity and its wrong now. Developer shouldnt have to change content based on harassment and review bombing by people at the fringes.

    prem0nitionsubtledoctorArdul
  • TStaelTStael Member Posts: 861
    Oh my, we SW-battlemaidens and knights are clearly made of sturdier stuff than the rest, since we can take this content in our stride! ;-)

    And on tops, we are known to enjoy games that would have been developed, well, primarily for you, really. For example, my favored immersion is to roll a female CHAR, but I do not go hostile on games that only have a male protagonist.

    I am hopeful Beamdog will stick with it. At least I am with ya!

    Those who want to be sourpusses over single line of dialogue over writing quality that exceeded my expectations, at least, are only reducing their own gaming joy needlessly in my opinion.

  • RatcliffRatcliff Member Posts: 43
    Mikey205 said:

    Its wrong when it happened to pillars of eternity and its wrong now. Developer shouldnt have to change content based on harassment and review bombing by people at the fringes.

    They shouldn't have to, and they probably won't.

    But you can't say Beamdog didn't invite this. When Minsc made a joke of GG'ers slogan, you can easily argue that Beamdog fired the first shot.

    I just wish they have left it alone. Now Baldur's Gate is caught in this shitshow.

    Benjamin_the_Rogue
  • bradbrad Member Posts: 32
    Yeah, this is dumb. Was it poorly implemented? Of course. Is it a symptom of some deep cancer that's invaded video games as a media and shoves a liberal agenda down your throat? Ummmm no. Does this "scandal" make an ounce of sense? Negative ghostrider.

    Illustair
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302
    I think its going to blow over when the funs been had. To be honest im happy that aside from this row the games apparently good according to professional reviews. Thats the important thing as I want more of these types of games. I doubt that this fiasco will have a major impact on sales.

  • naktinakti Member Posts: 3
    It's probably going to be the first time when I'll pay more attention to professional reviews then the ones written by players.
    People on the interwebz are such p*ssies these days.

  • bradbrad Member Posts: 32
    I finished the expansion on core difficulty this morning, and I was blown away. It was amazing imho.

    joluv
  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Mikey205 said:

    Its wrong when it happened to pillars of eternity and its wrong now. Developer shouldnt have to change content based on harassment and review bombing by people at the fringes.

    This isn't what happened to Pillars of Eternity.

    Pillars of Eternity was criticised for being harmful in the real world over an out-of-character gravestone joke and pressured to change or erase it immediately or face the mighty wrath of SocJus calling them bigots and transphobes... which in the past has been followed up by doxing, threats in the mail, demands to retailers to pull the game, etc.

    Siege of Dragonspear has been panned by fans and some critics on discussion and user review sites for its content and tone. There are no widespread calls for anything to be changed, at least not from the GamerGate side.

    How many people are allowed to dislike Siege of Dragonspear before it becomes "triggering" and constitutes some form of hate campaign? Can you give me a hard number?

    Benjamin_the_Rogue
  • ChidojuanChidojuan Member Posts: 211
    edited April 2016
    In response to the OP, it is not wrong to criticize the game about anything, or anything about anything. I do feel that the negative reviews are disingenuous though. I mean, the game itself is amazing, and a worthy bridge between the originals. I really wish people could have criticized it more objectively, though I realize that dealing with a nostalgic subject makes that even more difficult. An example of this would be Chick-Fil-A. Many people hate the political stance of the company, but regardless they still make great chicken. Beamdog is the same. I personally don't think the aforementioned content should have been added, but it's still a great game. I do think they should own up to it at this point. Either give a role playing reason for the content, like creating a quest to go with it, and make it good, really good, though not necessarily long. Or remove it altogether. Nothing wishy washy, no Easter eggs. Either take a serious subject seriously or take it out.

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Ratcliff said:

    But you can't say Beamdog didn't invite this. When Minsc made a joke of GG'ers slogan, you can easily argue that Beamdog fired the first shot.

    I just wish they have left it alone. Now Baldur's Gate is caught in this shitshow.

    This aloof tut-tutting is getting old, @Ratcliff. Instead of taking a stand on whether or not the reaction has been reasonable, you're saying that Beamdog should have seen it coming and implying that they therefore deserve whatever they get. But GG isn't an inevitable force of nature. It's made up of people who make choices. Do you think those people have made appropriate or proportionate choices in this situation?

    subtledoctor
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 11,392
    joluv said:

    Ratcliff said:

    But you can't say Beamdog didn't invite this. When Minsc made a joke of GG'ers slogan, you can easily argue that Beamdog fired the first shot.

    I just wish they have left it alone. Now Baldur's Gate is caught in this shitshow.

    This aloof tut-tutting is getting old, @Ratcliff.
    Srsly.

  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Beamdog didn't "see this coming" so much as they deliberately and purposefully engineered it. Whether that's because of a desire to create controversy as a form of free publicity or because they're true believers in the SocJus cause who'd rather burn their studio than provide enjoyment to the wrong sort of person - and yes, we've seen that before, sometimes stated outright and proudly - I couldn't say. It doesn't matter much now.

    Is the reaction proportionate? Well, here we get back to how you view or characterize the reaction. If you think people have never played the game and are just giving it zero scores to "stick it" to Beamdog... then yeah, that's still totally proportionate. It's wrong, but it's less wrong than acting like you're going to produce a faith bridge game between two old classics and then use the franchise's most beloved characters to belittle fans of the original after they've already given you their money. It's not like even a review from someone who hasn't played the game isn't based on the truth, and it's not like people using the review site would not benefit from hearing that truth before they decide whether or not they wish to purchase the game.

    If you think people are just reviewing it honestly after having played it, then absolutely nothing wrong is happening.

    flekeldanzarBenjamin_the_RogueRatcliff
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,136
    Osigold said:

    they're true believers in the SocJus cause who'd rather burn their studio than provide enjoyment to the wrong sort of person - and yes, we've seen that before, sometimes stated outright and proudly

    I must have missed that.
    Osigold said:

    If you think people have never played the game and are just giving it zero scores to "stick it" to Beamdog... then yeah, that's still totally proportionate.

    I don't think you and I have enough common ground to have a remotely productive conversation. Have a good day.

  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    Does that mean you think it's disproportionate to respond to a deliberate and unnecessary personal attack made against you by something you paid for by recommending that people do not buy that thing?

    I think there's plenty to talk about there!

    But if you really don't want to, then I hope you have a good day too, and thanks for the conversation that we did have.

    Benjamin_the_Rogue
  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 7,400
    edited April 2016
    Imagine I see someone doing something I disapprove in line at the grocery store. I either make a snide remark or kindly tell them not to do it anymore. That person then shoots me in the face with a gun. Am I equally responsible for my death?? I'm guessing that to a sizable portion of the population, I might actually be....

  • jjstraka34jjstraka34 Member Posts: 7,400
    Osigold said:

    Mikey205 said:

    Its wrong when it happened to pillars of eternity and its wrong now. Developer shouldnt have to change content based on harassment and review bombing by people at the fringes.

    This isn't what happened to Pillars of Eternity.

    Pillars of Eternity was criticised for being harmful in the real world over an out-of-character gravestone joke and pressured to change or erase it immediately or face the mighty wrath of SocJus calling them bigots and transphobes... which in the past has been followed up by doxing, threats in the mail, demands to retailers to pull the game, etc.

    Siege of Dragonspear has been panned by fans and some critics on discussion and user review sites for its content and tone. There are no widespread calls for anything to be changed, at least not from the GamerGate side.

    How many people are allowed to dislike Siege of Dragonspear before it becomes "triggering" and constitutes some form of hate campaign? Can you give me a hard number?
    That isn't even remotely what happened with Pillars of Eternity. Hell, I defended keeping the gravestone limerick in the game. It was harmless. The backer choose to take it out, probably because he's a nice fellow. There was no campaign against Obsidian. Most people didn't even know it happened.

  • XzarXzar Member Posts: 215
    Another important thing here is intent and actual results. What are actual result of extreme left activity in gaming industry? Creation of massive anti-left army. Anti-conformist flag, for the first time in more than 50 years, is in hands of right-wingers. The cultural left is totally not ready to deal with all the headache that comes with cultural dominance they got under Obama. Is this what they intended? I doubt it. How do they deal with the problem? By doubling down on their dogmas instead of engaging in dialogue with opposition. Really, they resemble fundamentalist Christians in so many ways, that it sure seems like those methods that were used against Christians as a dominant cultural force could and should be used against left.

  • OsigoldOsigold Member Posts: 117
    edited April 2016

    Imagine I see someone doing something I disapprove in line at the grocery store. I either make a snide remark or kindly tell them not to do it anymore. That person then shoots me in the face with a gun. Am I equally responsible for my death?? I'm guessing that to a sizable portion of the population, I might actually be....

    No, of course not, but what the heck does that have to do with anything? You weren't selling the other person your presence in the grocery store as a bridge expansion between his two favourite random encounters with other strangers, you didn't dress up as one of them in order to make your comment more insulting, and he shot you rather than expressing an opinion that he didn't like what you said to him.

    Also proportionality is different from responsibility is different from morality. If someone punches you in the face, it's proportionate to punch them in the face. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 302

    Osigold said:

    Mikey205 said:

    Its wrong when it happened to pillars of eternity and its wrong now. Developer shouldnt have to change content based on harassment and review bombing by people at the fringes.

    This isn't what happened to Pillars of Eternity.

    Pillars of Eternity was criticised for being harmful in the real world over an out-of-character gravestone joke and pressured to change or erase it immediately or face the mighty wrath of SocJus calling them bigots and transphobes... which in the past has been followed up by doxing, threats in the mail, demands to retailers to pull the game, etc.

    Siege of Dragonspear has been panned by fans and some critics on discussion and user review sites for its content and tone. There are no widespread calls for anything to be changed, at least not from the GamerGate side.

    How many people are allowed to dislike Siege of Dragonspear before it becomes "triggering" and constitutes some form of hate campaign? Can you give me a hard number?
    That isn't even remotely what happened with Pillars of Eternity. Hell, I defended keeping the gravestone limerick in the game. It was harmless. The backer choose to take it out, probably because he's a nice fellow. There was no campaign against Obsidian. Most people didn't even know it happened.
    There was an uproar, but the game had been out for ages and was slightly old news when it happened. The backer did choose to take it out, and there was some anger that Obsidian had caved until it came out that the backer removed it voluntarily, which took the wind out of people's sails.

    Siege of Dragonspear has been panned by no critics by the way the 2 reviews I've read were incredibly positive. On Steam most reviews are positive (since it requires a purchase). There are user reviews with legitimate complaints. There are plenty of user reviews purely moaning about SJW. Yet there's no coincidence that every single negative review had 85%+ helpful's and every positive review has <20% helpful's and people don't need to buy the game to vote on reviews. There was a review that was negative and had 85%+ likes, switched to positive as his concerns were addressed and that dropped to ~20% without a corresponding increase in the numbers that voted. That meant people actually went back and reversed their helpful/unhelpful rating. Pretty obvious manipulation by a group.

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447
    There are a dozen or more other threads about this topic. There's no need for another one.

    Thread closed.

    booinyoureyesbyrne20
This discussion has been closed.