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Theorycrafting - Kensai/Thief quarterstaff build

sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
edited September 2012 in Archive (General Discussion)
I got to thinking what the most damage you could do with a single backstab. Here's what I've come up with.

Staff of the Ram +6 is the weapon.

13-18 (weapon inflicts 1d6+12)
+ 12 (24 strength from storm giant potion)
+ 4 (default grand mastery BG2 value +4 damage)
+ 4 (+4 bonus to hit and damage from level 12 Kensai)
+ 2 (Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization)
+2 (Tenser's Transformation; cast from a scroll utilizing Use All Items)
+ 4 (a bard in the party singing Enhanced Bard Song)
= 41-46

x5 = 205-230 (+4 from the extra piercing damage tacked on per hit with Staff of the Ram +6)

Did I do my math right? Not sure which bonuses count toward backstab multipliers.

If it's just the dice roll from the weapon, it'd be 65-90 + 28 = 93-108 which ain't half bad.

Wish I knew how backstab damage was factored.













tl;dr Sandman is extremely bored.

Comments

  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    If you want improved "Cheese" then you can equip staff of the magi in your other weapon slot that way you can give yourself invisibility after every backstab just by equipping fun ><

    Although I thought strength damage didn't apply till after the backstab in the BG2 engine. Something about @TrentOster making James aka Semaj mad by using his fighter/thief to 1 shot Semaj in BG1. So they normalized the values.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    Strength is NOT in the backstab. Everything else should be. Compared to An assassin with the same buffs/weapons/gear,

    13-18
    +1 (Assassin)
    +2 (Gauntlets)
    +2 (Tenser-- Haven't checked the math here. Trusting whatever you came up with.)
    +4 (Bard)
    +1 (Style you missed)
    = 23-28

    x 7 + 12 = 173-208

    Your adjusted totals would be:

    x5 +12 (With Style +1, minus strength)(30-35) = 162-187



    Champion's strength scroll would stack as well, so we can add in a few more points. Also, Your Kensai should have two-handed weapon style for an extra + 1 damage.

    Assassin wins in the case of max buffs, as that takes advantage of the assassin's advantage in multiplier. Remove the bard and it's near equal. Remove tenser and the Kensai wins.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I think the Golem fist from Shapechange spell is still a more damaging weapon though, and it definitely CAN backstab (yep, a 16 square feet area adamantite hand *can* definitely backstab)

    I don't know about the strength bonus. Always assumed that Backstabs and Critical hits come as last.
    You can also get a Critical hit though, which would double the damage, no? Also, if you backstab a party member on hardest difficulty setting, that's TWICE more damage yet.

    I think Assassin (24)>Fighters or Assassin (24)>Clerics (the latter is definitely possible without tweaks, the former I don't know) could get better gains yet. If the former is possible, then just have Aerie spell trigger on you Holy Power + Draw Upon Holy Might + Righteous Magic for Kai-like effect.
    Add some chant, bard song and... x7 backstabs for the fun of it!

    I dunno, I guess I am bored as well XD
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    Also, if you're purely considering the hypothetical best backstab possible, adding in maxed out champion's strength scroll for damage (I have no recollection what it would be. Let's say +3 for the sake of laziness) AND making it a crit...Hell, since we're messing around in vanilla, I assume, let's say you have 5 bards and an assassin in your party. So add 19 extra damage to the base backstab damage, assume max damage for hypothetical best backstab, we get 47 base damage x 7 +12 for 341 damage x2 for crit for 682.

    682 is the number to beat.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    Cheesebelly said:

    I think the Golem fist from Shapechange spell is still a more damaging weapon though, and it definitely CAN backstab (yep, a 16 square feet area adamantite hand *can* definitely backstab)

    ...can an unarmed strike backstab?

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    edited September 2012
    I think I might go and hack a dude in who'd also have that one fighter HLA for guaranteed crits just to see what kind of numbers I can come up with.

    Be back with results~

    ALSO:

    Champion's Strength just adds Thac0 according to the description. Doesn't add damage. I did forget 1 rank of two-weapon style adds +1 to damage, though, so there's another point.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    sandmanCCL said:

    I think I might go and hack a dude in who'd also have Greater Deathblow for guaranteed crits just to see what kind of numbers I can come up with.

    Be back with results~

    You may want to use a skill that gives you guaranteed crits instead of killing your low level enemies. Like...Critical Strike.
  • ZaorZaor Member Posts: 69
    sandmanCCL said:



    Champion's Strength just adds Thac0 according to the description. Doesn't add damage. I did forget 1 rank of two-weapon style adds +1 to damage, though, so there's another point.

    Fair enough. I was recalling from a ranger run that was...um...15 failed runs ago.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    image

    ^Least amount of damage I inflicted upon anything.

    image

    Hrk. Snk. GUH. Ahhhh.

    *smokes a cigarette*
  • LemernisLemernis Member, Moderator Posts: 4,318
    Sounds badass.

    I think my own favorite character of all time is a half-orc cleric-thief that I made who dealt some truly amazing damage on backstabs. Sure enough, he used the quarterstaff, as your character concept does.

    By the end of the game he was getting critical hits on the order of 258. The cleric buffs obviously helped. And he had half-orc Strength to begin with.

    I enjoyed this character so much that I began developing a NPC mod for him. I may actually return to that project now and make him a BG:EE character.

  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    image

    This is from old-man Frabjous from the BioWare boards. XD
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    "Keldorn- Death"

    Thanks, Baldur's Gate. I don't think I could have figured that out otherwise.
  • bbearbbear Member Posts: 1,180
    May as well combine kensai and assassin together (get a mod that lets you have a kit in each of the multiclass or just cheat). Also one of the mod I play increase the backstab modifier by 1 on a dagger. Get 2 of those and my kensai/assassin can backstab x9. If go for FMT (kensai mage assassin, remove xp cap), may as well pre cast improve alacrity, then activate critical strike, assassination and kai (and greater whirlwind too!) all in one round. I think I've done over 1400+ damage to Minsc on insane mode before. This just breaks the game.
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited September 2012
    Cheesebelly said:

    I think the Golem fist from Shapechange spell is still a more damaging weapon though, and it definitely CAN backstab (yep, a 16 square feet area adamantite hand *can* definitely backstab)

    Tested and confirmed. ^^

    image

    edit: just saw your pic vs Keldorn, I'm so jealous! ^^

    image
    Post edited by fighter_mage_thief on
  • fighter_mage_thieffighter_mage_thief Member Posts: 262
    edited September 2012
    deleted double post
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