Request for possibility to have more strongholds in BG2:EE

krikkert

I always wanted to be able to have more strongholds when playing BG2, not unlimited number of them, but say 2 or 3...
What strongholds you could have would still have to depend on what class you played, to an eXtent at least.
Obviously only paladins would still be able to get the Radiant heart stronghold and only clerics would get the chance to join a temple, simply because anything else wouldn't make sense.
But I see no reason for why the Arnise Keep stronghold can't be had by anyone, regardless of class.
So if you play f.eX. as a cleric you'd be able to have both one temple and the Arnise stronghold.
I have pasted below a list of what strongholds belong to what class in the vanilla game.

So what say you to the possibility of having at least 2 strongholds ? You agree?

Fighter Classes (Fighter, Barbarian, Monk)
Nalia d'Armise will ask you to help defend d'Armise Keep against trolls. After successful completion of the quests, you will be offered rule over the keep. You earn gold from taxation and will have to help defend it from a siege.

Ranger
The Ranger Protector of Umar Hills has been killed. After you complete several quests, you will be asked to take her place. If you accept, you will get her old cabin, and are responsible for protecting the village and surrounding forest.

Paladin
You will be sent on a quest to clean out the monsters in the Windspeear Hills. Complete this and rescue Garren Windspear's child to earn a recommendation for membership in the Order of the Radiant Heart, with the possibility of taking charge of the order.

Mage Classes (Wizard and Sorcerer)
A large Planar Sphere has appeared in the Slums District. When you resolve the problems inside the Sphere, it will be given to you as a stronghold. You then have some quests to perform in order to keep the Sphere. You can earn an apprentice who will create potions for you.

Cleric
When you have completed the Cult of the Unseeing Eye quest, you will be made an official part of the temple matching your alignment. Maintenance of the temple will grant the cleric special powers.

Druid
After completing the Trademeet quests, you can become part of the Druid Grove. Perform a few quests to remain in good standing, and when you reach level 14, you can fight the Great Druid for control of the Grove.

Thief
Gaylen Bayle will send you to see Renal Bloodscalp in the Docks. Bloodscalp will send you to spy on Guildmaster Mae'Var. When you complete the guild quests, Bloodscalp will give control of Mae'Var's old guild to you. You will earn gold from the actions of your guild's members.

Bard
After watching a play at the Five Flagons Inn, you get caught up in the kidnapping of the theater troupe's star performer. Rescue the troupe and you will be given the deed to the Theater. From here on, you finance plays and earn a percentage of their proceeds.

Moomintroll

Limiting the strongholds gives the different classes more individuality, though I did briefly enjoy a mod where you can just take all of the strongholds regardless. I'd like some stronghold related quests; seeing off outlaws from the D'Arnise farmsteads, demons in the planar sphere plumming, hunting down the best bards and actors in the land for you playhouse - something like that anyway.

Dee

Some of the stronghold quests need to be fleshed out more (Paladin, I'm looking at you!), and others need to be given a real ending (Thief...!).

Aside from that, though, I agree that limiting the strongholds to what your character's class is helps to encourage players to play through the game again as something different.

I would say, though, that a multiclass or dual classed character should be able to get the stronghold for all of his classes.

We also really need a stronghold for the sorcerer, monk, and barbarian, since they're the only unique base classes that don't get special treatment.

Heinrich

I would love expanded Strongholds. There are some that were very well thought out and had a lot to offer (Fighter, Paladin, Bard) while some were very half-assed (Druid, Thief, Ranger).

If they could add more quests and content to the Strongholds that had little to offer, then that would make playing other classes more interesting.

Senash

Definite no from me. The stronghold is connected to your class (Monk does stick out a bit though...). It wouldnt feel right to enter into the service of a church or the paladin order as mage.
But I would welcome some refreshing of the old ones.

(But still this is a discussion for the future, right now I'm just waiting for november 30th )

CrazedSlayer

The addition of new strongholds could make use of some of the great locations in the world that dont see any use once you finish them: eg. Slavers Ship, Harper Stronghold, Irenicus' Dungeon, Temple of Amaunator in Temple District, Shadow Lord Temple, Firkraag's Dungeon, Watchers Keep (if you got rid of Demogorgon), Forest of Tethir (there's a cabin up for good use), Brynnlaw, Spellhold, Twisted Rune hideout, that mage hideout where you pick up Haer'Dalis, the Planar Prison.

RedGuard

I would love it if the new Blackguard got a stronghold. Maybe they could storm the Order of the Radiant Heart? Either to keep it as their stronghold or because their actual stronghold is from an opposing faction.

Though maybe they could get the option to join the Order of the Radiant Heart for a shot at redemption and become a Paladin? I doubt there are many good Blackguards. Though I don't see this particular idea as likely (but it would be fun).

I also wouldn't mind if the Monk received a separate stronghold this time round too. Since we're getting a new Monk npc, I imagine there would be new areas as well to go along with the new characters.

Dee

I fully expect Dorn to take over Saradush as his own personal "stronghold".

...I also fully expect Dorn and Sarevok to be BFFs. ...Weird...

elminster

Aosaw said:

I fully expect Dorn to take over Saradush as his own personal "stronghold".

...I also fully expect Dorn and Sarevok to be BFFs. ...Weird...

Hopefully they are provided interesting banter dialogue, since it seems like they are of somewhat similar mindsets.

krikkert

Senash said:

Definite no from me. It wouldnt feel right to enter into the service of a church or the paladin order as mage.

I didn't say that mages should be able to take a cleric or paladin stronghold. In fact I said that shud NOT be possible cuz it wouldn't make sense. But I singled out the Arnise keep as a stronghold that could be had by anyone, regardless of class.

We've all played the game before, probably many times, so why not give us an ekstra stronghold in the EE says I.

krikkert

CrazedSlayer said:

The addition of new strongholds could make use of some of the great locations in the world that dont see any use once you finish them: eg. Slavers Ship, Harper Stronghold, Irenicus' Dungeon, Temple of Amaunator in Temple District, Shadow Lord Temple, Firkraag's Dungeon, Watchers Keep (if you got rid of Demogorgon), Forest of Tethir (there's a cabin up for good use), Brynnlaw, Spellhold, Twisted Rune hideout, that mage hideout where you pick up Haer'Dalis, the Planar Prison.

The blackguard could have the Watcher's keep perhaps..

DivineBlood

All of the Stronhold Quests need to be reviewed and revisited. There is such potential to take this part of the game into greater deapth for self satisfaction.

Niphire

I agree that De arnise hold and some others could be taken by more classes, though I don't know if you should be able to have more strongholds than 1 at a time.

I'd like more stronghold quests and customisation. Like the ability to set up the defence of my thieves' guild, and then we get attacked by Bodhi's pawns or something. As mentioned, cleaning up demons from the basement, providing advice, ability to invest in projects etc.

Kaxon

I don't really think you should be able to get multiple strongholds, but I would like to see some of the stronghold quests expanded, and a new one for Monks (maybe Barbarians as well).

Also...

"earn a recommendation for membership in the Order of the Radiant Heart, with the possibility of taking charge of the order."

... you can take charge of the Radiant Heart? I must have missed something, I thought the Paladin stronghold quests ended after you slayed Firkraag.

O_Bruce

Actually, about De'Arnise keep... If I recall correctly Nalia mentions about possibility to hand the keep over to a great warrior, because it apparently is some kind of family tradition. While I agree that handling keep to a, for example, Paladin could work, even thought I think the Paladin himself would have refused such an offert - after all, Paladins are knight in shinning armors - they are not ought to seek position of power. At least that's my opinion. But I think that Rangers aren't that restricted.

Other thing is that stronghbolds quests are rather strongly related to your character class.

It's not like warrior would know how to run thieves guild, wizards rather aren't really interested in religion, bards aren't supposed to hear spirits of the forest calling to them and so on.

While I can understand where that request is coming from, whithout tweaking some dialouge lines or quests, implementing this feature would not be belivable.

mungomunk

While a revision of all the stronghold quests would be highly appreciated by me as well, I do not see the need to own multiple strongholds, unless you are dual/multi that is.

SamuelVarg

I asked this in another thread but did not get an answer: If yoy play multiclass what stronghold do you get? Say that you have a fighter/theif. Do you get the Ceep or the Guild?

APhantasm

Here is the thing 2 strongholds really aren't class specific like the rest. The Fighter and Bard stronghold can realistically be used by anyone.

D&D has had Clerics, and Mages, Paladins and I believe even thieves ruling over surrounding land. So realistically the fighter stronghold can be done by just about everyone, with maybe the exception of Druids.

Same goes for the Bard stronghold. After you acquire the deed you become the patron. A patron by definition is someone to gives money to the theater. There is nothing to say that the Patron can't be a Cleric or a Thief. Anyone can give money to the theater.

Now the Cleric, Druid, Mage, Ranger, Paladin (though Fighter could do Paladin if they were to become a Paladin afterwards), and Thief strongholds are class specific. We just need more class specific strongholds for Fighter and Bard.

That said though why were the dual and multi classes kinda ignored. Sure they get a stronghold, not sure which usually. But I think they should get access to one for each of their classes. So a Fighter/Mage/Thief really should be able to get each of those strongholds.

mungomunk

@SamuelVarg: you have to choose one

Moomintroll

Off topic, it would be great to have some class specific work in BG:EE, similar how you can work for the thieves guild because you are bound to have a thief in your party, but instead dependent on the PC class. Would add to the uniqueness of various playthroughs.

DJKajuru

krikkert said:

CrazedSlayer said:

The addition of new strongholds could make use of some of the great locations in the world that dont see any use once you finish them: eg. Slavers Ship, Harper Stronghold, Irenicus' Dungeon, Temple of Amaunator in Temple District, Shadow Lord Temple, Firkraag's Dungeon, Watchers Keep (if you got rid of Demogorgon), Forest of Tethir (there's a cabin up for good use), Brynnlaw, Spellhold, Twisted Rune hideout, that mage hideout where you pick up Haer'Dalis, the Planar Prison.

Indeed! Even in BG1 there could be some "hideouts" for the party.

Moomintroll said:

Off topic, it would be great to have some class specific work in BG:EE, similar how you can work for the thieves guild because you are bound to have a thief in your party, but instead dependent on the PC class. Would add to the uniqueness of various playthroughs.

Great idea, specially if the npc got to interact and make choices instead of you (after all, it's their stronghold, not yours)

SamuelVarg

mungomunk said:

@SamuelVarg: you have to choose one

How do you choose when you play multiclass? Is it the first adventure you do?

Kilivitz

SamuelVarg said:

How do you choose when you play multiclass? Is it the first adventure you do?

Not necessarily. You will be offered the stronghold by the end of the first adventure, but you can turn it down and take the other stronghold quest later.

Renulan

I don't think there ought to be more strongholds accessible, I feel they should if anything just be expanded on. Find some way to make them more involved in the game somehow.

countryace29

mungomunk said:

While a revision of all the stronghold quests would be highly appreciated by me as well, I do not see the need to own multiple strongholds, unless you are dual/multi that is.

This, so many times. I have played through as F/M/T or F/M/C and wished I could have all three strongholds at once. As long as you are that class, whether single or dual/multi, I see nothing wrong with being able to get that stronghold. And as mentioned by others, some new strongholds for diffferent classes would be welcome.

Crowseye

Personally I prefer that the fighter, mage, and thief strongholds be considered "core" to the story as they've always struck me as having nothing so class-specific that a powerful character of any type wouldn't be intrested in what they could gain from controlling those locations. The keep is obvious simply as a seat of power. The Shadow Thieves are already an important component to BG2 regardless of class. And the planar sphere simply makes sense for its power and potential.


To me, the additional strongholds are tied more specifically to interests based on character class and should IMO be a bonus for those other classes.

That is how I've always chosen to play BG2 in any case, and I would at least like that option kept available through a gameplay option or easy modding.

ARKdeEREH

I've never really liked the Planar Sphere very much as a mage stronghold. It just doesn't seem very significant when compared with D'Arnise Hold.

This may be too complicated to implement, but I think it would be interesting if Spellhold could become the mage stronghold instead of the Planar Sphere. If some of the crazy people confined there either surived the fight with Irenicus or could be revived with priest spells, they could then interact with the PC as s/he tried to cure them and eventually turned them into productive contributers to the stronghold. If this would be a problem with the contract, due to the change in the Planar Sphere, perhaps Spellhold could become the stronghold for a specific sub-class of mage or maybe only mages of a certain alignment. Perhaps some sort of negotiations/interaction with the surviving Cowled Wizards in Athkatla could also result from this. For that matter, the pirates in Brynnlaw could also be affected because of their traditional relationship with the asylum.