mechanics Q: why are tattered skeletons immune to arrows of fire +2 but not arrows +2?

agris

Arrows of fire +2 are AROW08.itm and Arrow +2 is AROW11.itm, both listed as having an enchantment of +2. I have set SOD to pause if an item is unusabl, and the game pauses and the combat log tells me arrows of fire +2 are ineffective, while the arrows +2 do (low) damage just fine on a Tattered Skeleton. To be clear, the arrows of fire appear to be doing their fire damage but none of their physical (i.e. the +2 at minimum) while the arrows +2 also do damage.

What gives?

mf2112

I just tried it with a saved game from the first dungeon and both types of arrows worked for me, although all but 2-3 points of the damage were resisted of course. I had brought the +2 fire arrows over from my BG1 final save game.

agris

My question is really why does the pause condition "weapon unusable" trigger on the arrows of fire +2 and not arrows +2. Both do damage.

Separately, I've noticed some undead (bonebats, imbued wights?) can detect characters who are invisible via a potion, and wearing the cloak of whispering (non-detection effect applied). Is that correct?

Ammar

What difficulty levels are you two playing on? There is at least one enemy in the game where the enchantment bonus required to hit depends on the difficulty level.

Regarding the bonebats, I have heard that as well. Haven't tested in my game. But if they are bats it makes sense that they are not deceived by invisibility.

mf2112

Hmm, i didn't try that but I will in a couple minutes.

I did a bit of walking around the first dungeon with Safana invisible from a potion and most of the undeads were not able to see me but some were. I didn't check the types but those sound likely. I guess maybe they have true sight which would bypass invisibility and non-detection.

agris

I think non-detection trumps true sight, or it should based on the wording of the respective effects.

I'm playing on insane but without the XP/stat increases.

@Ammar which is exactly why I said that both types of arrows are rated at the same enchantment level. I checked with Near Infinity.

procco

maybe the bonebats aren't "seeing" but hearing invisible characters, like a real bat would. Either way, those things are a pain in the butt.

mf2112

agris said:

My question is really why does the pause condition "weapon unusable" trigger on the arrows of fire +2 and not arrows +2. Both do damage.

Separately, I've noticed some undead (bonebats, imbued wights?) can detect characters who are invisible via a potion, and wearing the cloak of whispering (non-detection effect applied). Is that correct?

I just tried it and I am getting the weapon unusable autopause with both +2 arrows and the +2 fire arrows.

agris

mf2112 said:

agris said:

My question is really why does the pause condition "weapon unusable" trigger on the arrows of fire +2 and not arrows +2. Both do damage.

Separately, I've noticed some undead (bonebats, imbued wights?) can detect characters who are invisible via a potion, and wearing the cloak of whispering (non-detection effect applied). Is that correct?

I just tried it and I am getting the weapon unusable autopause with both +2 arrows and the +2 fire arrows.

That's interesting, which enemy? Are you also seeing damage done after the message? I'm getting the same message, my missile is doing damage and it's on tattered skeletons (at least).

mf2112

agris said:

mf2112 said:

agris said:

My question is really why does the pause condition "weapon unusable" trigger on the arrows of fire +2 and not arrows +2. Both do damage.

Separately, I've noticed some undead (bonebats, imbued wights?) can detect characters who are invisible via a potion, and wearing the cloak of whispering (non-detection effect applied). Is that correct?

I just tried it and I am getting the weapon unusable autopause with both +2 arrows and the +2 fire arrows.

That's interesting, which enemy? Are you also seeing damage done after the message? I'm getting the same message, my missile is doing damage and it's on tattered skeletons (at least).

It was on the tattered skeletons and maybe a zombie. On the second floor of the first dungeon right after Imoen intros the area, I just ran out and got the undead's attention with CHARNAME and started shooting, then ran back and switched ammo.

agris

So did you get the message, while doing damage?

mf2112

Yep, I was doing the normal 2-3 points per arrow with both types. I think the tattered skeletons were immune to the flame damage though. I just had a couple arrows per slot so I got the Weapon unusable message pretty quick. It did bring up the next slot ammo as selected, but still paused.

AlexT

The "weapon unusable" autopause state doesn't mean that your weapon cannot hurt the enemy. It means that your character can no longer use a weapon that he/she had equipped during the previous round. Here are a few examples which trigger the "weapon unusable" autopause state:

• you have depleted the currently selected ammo stack
  
• your currently selected weapon ran out of charges
  
• your weapon has broken
  

On the other hand, if your weapon can't affect a certain creature, you get a "Weapon Ineffective" message in the combat log but there isn't an autopause state connected to that.