Swashbuckler or Fighter/Thief Multiclass

JumboWheat01

Which would you recommend to take for a main character (a halfling) throughout the whole series? They both fill relatively the same niche, if through a slightly different way.

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Lord_Tansheron

Both will work just fine. It depends on what you want to do, really.

Swashbuckler:
+ great damage bonuses
+ fast levels
- lots of redundant thieving skills (since no backstab)
- lower APR without Whirlwind, lower THAC0 with it

Fighter/Thief:
+ can backstab
+ can tank with armor if needed
+ fairly balanced defense/offense
+ will get Fighter APR
- no Grand Mastery
- slower level progression
- lower sustained damage

Then there's also some you did not mention, but could potentially be part of the consideration.

Swashbuckler 10 -> Fighter dual class:
+ some damage bonuses
+ 100 in Find Traps/Open Locks/Detect Illusions (with 19 DEX) so no redundant thieving
+ full Fighter THAC0 progression plus Swash bonus
+ Grand Mastery
+ can get maximum APR naturally
+ will just play as Swashbuckler in BG1
- will just play as Swashbuckler in BG1
- no Use Any Item
- lower HP to start with
- will take a bit to regain thief levels (but will get to the dualing point quickly)

Kensai 9 -> Thief dual class
+ some damage bonuses
+ Use Any Item negates Kensai penalties
+ can use backstab + Kai for massive burst
+ quickly regain Fighter class due to fast Thief levels
+ maximum base APR with Gauntlets
- defensive issues at lower levels
- challenging to play in BG1 & no Thief in BG1

Chidojuan

Fighter/Thief also us more situational versatility. Don't need to sneak? Pop some heavy armor on to tank.

JumboWheat01

Unfortunately, as a halfling, dual-classing would be completely out of the picture, although I will admit to having the passive idea of a halfling kensai or a halfling fighter with grandmastery in slings.

TheArtisan

Imho the swashbuckler is pretty bad as a single class. It's practically made for dual-classing (I share the same opinion with the kensai and berserker) and if you have the option then fighter/thief is superior.

Slightly off-topic but has anyone made a swashbuckler/cleric? It's pretty awesome.

DinoDin

fighter/thief is almost surely better, i just don't think pure thieves are ever a good choice in bg2. fighter/thief will give you powerful backstabbing at high levels as well as better ranged fighting. the swashbuckler is going to be little more than a damage tank at high levels. tho if you plan to stick w/ valygar in bg2 swashbuckler would combo well with him.

Lord_Tansheron

Personally, I remain a fan of Swashbuckler 10 -> Fighter. I'm super lazy, plus not at all convinced the setup time for backstabs even makes them a damage gain (they do reduce incoming damage, though); also often they smell of cheese to me (like vs. any neutral/just-spawned caster you can safely ambush). I like just whacking things, but I also like the convenience of Pick Lock/Find Trap, and the flexibility of Detect Illusion. UAI I find somewhat overrated in a full party; though undoubtedly good, I find myself using it for SNT above all else.

woowoovoodoo

I do not think that backstabbing thieves are fun anymore. I used to use them a lot in the past, I don't know what has been changed but they're just not interesting now. For me, swashbuckler's dual classes and especially bounty hunters are more fun (tried bounty hunters once or twice but haven't actually made a full playthrough with them).

Grum

A halfling feels more like a swashbuckler to me. Give him the Scarlet Ninjato and Belm for 4APR, which is more than enough. Enjoy the insane Thaco and AC bonuses.

Also a big plus for a fighter/thief is the improved 18 strength. Halflings can't get that anyway.

JumboWheat01

That's actually a pretty good point there. Even if I use the tome on a fighter, that would only bring me to 18 STR, which I could do just the same on a Swashbuckler.

jackjack

Strength isn't a hugely critical stat though. There are a bajillion strength-enhancing items that fall into your lap in BG2, and 18/xx STR isn't needed in BG1, especially with its tilt toward ranged weapons in general (where a potential 19 Dex gives a nice boost, much as it does to Thieving skills and AC).
As early as chapter 2 of BG2, halflings can soar past that barrier with a Girdle of Hill Giant Strength and become absolute melee demons, with shorty saving throws and up to 20 DEX and 19 CON with tomes from BG1. Plus, you'll appreciate the growth arc of the character more, I'd wager.

matrice

You can swashbucler 11 dual into fighter, that's quite nice. few bonus to ca / hit, enough point in detect and disarm trap, and basically a full fighter behind.

You should anyway avoid full thief (even though swashbuckler isn't totally as crap as the other)

Lord_Tansheron

matrice said:

You can swashbucler 11 dual into fighter

You can, but I'm pretty sure the Swash bonuses apply every 5 levels, so you get one at 10 - which means going one more for 11 is fairly pointless, unless you're starving for thieving skills - which you shouldn't be, since with 19 DEX you can get 100 in Traps/Locks/Illusions, and with 18 DEX you can get close enough to maximum for it not to matter.

JumboWheat01

I've come around and settled on Fighter/Thief. I did some math and a Fighter/Thief will have better THAC0 than the Swashbuckler. While the Swashbuckler can potentially do more damage in a straight fight, thanks to their bonuses, they'd have a poorer chance to hit. All that sweet damage doesn't matter if you can't actually hit the thing you're trying to kill.

And I'll admit I'm a sucker for Single Weapon Fighting. Getting -2 AC and +1 Critical Threat Range out of that is just so tasty.

So I started with maxed Single Weapon Fighting and Daggers, since a magical dagger is very easy to get and my planned party won't have any need for them, and I can get throwing ones easy enough for ranged combat. Will pip up Ninja-to through BG1, and probably Long Swords and Katanas through BG2. Sneaking and Backstabbing will have to wait for Open Locks and Find Traps to be finished first, but eventually... eventually!

jesterdesu

I prefer swash for flavour, but agree that fighter thief is the more powerful, as with most dual and multi classes in this game...