My understanding is he doesn't like having Safana as a starting companion for no reason. Safana is just a default when you have no other thief in the party. But he could just remove her as soon as you start. I don't think you absolutely need a thief to complete the 1st dungeon.
Losing the gold is no big deal. If you start a game from a BG1save you already have super equipment and it would be unbalanced to have enough money to buy all the stuff in the Sorcerous Sundries. I still had my inventory filled with stuff to sell like the logbook of Balduran I could sell for 3000.
You know, in BG1 kinda wondered if there was anything bewtween Minsc and Dynaheir. Minsc was not born crazy and you don't know at what time they met. But there is no indication of any romance between them and it seems like just the platonic relationship of a knight for his lady, same as when Aerie becomes his witch in BG2.
Ok, i want to stay on topic - I lost my gold (around 300000) and when i discovered what happened i didn't feel betrayed, totally the opposite. There is a reason why the money was stolen and a reason why i didn't have it back (i liked it, totally my opinion). I made more than 30000 just selling the junk in my coffer. - Romantic relationship between Dynaheir and Minsc??? Ok, i will just pretend i didn't read it. And anyway, Dynaheir talks more in the screenshot than in the whole bg1. After we save her from the Gnolls she and Minsc talk for two lines of dialog. Not much sweet feelings on it. But hey, old is always better. Minsc took a few days (in the game, bg2) for change witch. He just moved on, even if he cared about her. But hey, vanilla is paradise, let's just attack the new game.
Of course i would too like more explanations for the NPCs to leave. I wanted to keep Yeslick, but the explanation he gave on the prologue for leaving was very long compared to how much he talked in bg1. The NPCs in bg1 didn't have much personality, most of them not even a bit. Safana? Never liked her, and i ignored her from the beginning of SoD. She never joined my team, i took Glint.
Losing the gold is no big deal. If you start a game from a BG1save you already have super equipment and it would be unbalanced to have enough money to buy all the stuff in the Sorcerous Sundries. I still had my inventory filled with stuff to sell like the logbook of Balduran I could sell for 3000.
Is needlessly cheap and bad design. Plus there is ABSOLUTELY no warning. Why do I bother to gather all the gold in a videogame when they're just gonna take it away from me? Makes me feel like an idiot and demonstrates a lack of respect for the player and (in an RPG) their character. And no it wouldn't be unbalanced at all since the stuff they sell in Sorcerous Sundries is mostly garbage.
And no it's not the same as BG2. That's a completely separate game where you start off with nothing. This one literally starts you off right after the final battle with the big bad. Hell, it's even called CHAPTER 8.
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
It's not being critical when a topic is started with attacking someone else: "What did the authors smoke, seriously... where are my teammates... and I lost all the gold. Lol. No, seriously, who wrote THIS? Is this a joke? ". "After THIS expansion, Vanilla BG and BG2 look like paradise". Being critical is something different. Posting an opinion like it's an absolute truth is not being critical. Judging a game, entirely, after 20 minutes of play IS NOT BEING CRITICAL. Troll Zone, more than critical zone.
its not the main game though its an add on ,a seperate game in my opinion, and the way you loose your gold is well explained its even made into a fun quest, so ehh no biggie.
I think one of my favorite moments was when my guy realized there was no way at all to get the hundreds of thousands of gold coins back since the perpetrators gave it away to charity. Oh he has the OPTION to arrest them and hand them over to the Flaming Fist, and he KNEW that it was the right thing to do. But the sheer stupidity of it drove him so insane that he turned them all into chunky salsa and splattered whatever was left on the inn walls. That must have been fun to clean up!
And no it's not the same as BG2. That's a completely separate game where you start off with nothing. This one literally starts you off right after the final battle with the big bad. Hell, it's even called CHAPTER 8.
That's just a technicality. WotC didn't want Beamdog to make a stand alone game, but it's still a separate game in anythig but name. If I remember correctly, in ToB they also removed a substantial fraction of your gold at the start if you have a lot.
If I remember correctly, in ToB they also removed a substantial fraction of your gold at the start if you have a lot.
THAT is so HILARIOUSLY untrue. I've played it literally dozens of times. The game NEVER steals your money like that. EVER. You're just making things up at this point.
YOUR party? Man you have to play with the NPCs the game offers to you, like in every game. And it's not like the ones from the first saga aren't enough anyway.
You don't want to "collect them till half game like Pokemon"? Alora, Quayle, Skie, Tiax? Do they ring a bell? And just a few maps before: Faldorn, Eldoth, Coran and Yeslick?
20 years of BG and you claim that Minsc and Dynaheir should display their romantic relationship, really?
You posted 4 messages of accusations peaking with the conclusion that you'll go for a solo story mode after you barely played 50 min... Now I ask you: is this a joke?
I'd recommend you, in general, to know what you're talking about before judging something. (You'll get to know why Khalid left you, for example.)
If you'll still find the game crap after playing it properly, go on exposing your critics - like it should be.
Losing the gold is no big deal. If you start a game from a BG1save you already have super equipment and it would be unbalanced to have enough money to buy all the stuff in the Sorcerous Sundries. I still had my inventory filled with stuff to sell like the logbook of Balduran I could sell for 3000.
Is needlessly cheap and bad design. Plus there is ABSOLUTELY no warning. Why do I bother to gather all the gold in a videogame when they're just gonna take it away from me? Makes me feel like an idiot and demonstrates a lack of respect for the player and (in an RPG) their character. And no it wouldn't be unbalanced at all since the stuff they sell in Sorcerous Sundries is mostly garbage.
And no it's not the same as BG2. That's a completely separate game where you start off with nothing. This one literally starts you off right after the final battle with the big bad. Hell, it's even called CHAPTER 8.
And you have it all right after that. You lose gold and companions because after you do prologue dungeon that story is done and your character has no mission and no reason to keep companions around. Everyone goes their way. It is all explained. Losing the gold is also explained. It is better explained than start of bg2
I wish you would read all of the four starting comments thoroughly. Nitpicking continues, yet the point for those comments stands. Too many female NPC's at the start (compare to ANY other game), gold taken away because "it was for the good of the (needy) people" (couldn't they take 30k, 50k, 70k?) burdened by a goddamn gambling bet. Basically, what I can do is tap them on the shoulder for throwing my life away, while there is NO opportunity to punish the gambling asshole. The spirit of "poker is not a gambling game" is strong here, but I do not want to go personal, again.
And no, I wasn't talking about the romance between Minsc and Dynaheir, I'll just quote myself: "my point - the "dying beyond your control" part. Beamdog writer(s) tried and failed to show believable relations between characters, and said characters would never act that way if and when their beloved one died in BG2." Please stop nitpicking!
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
The tendency of certain types of people complaining about things like there being a lot of female NPCs (such as the OP) or a transgendered character is also disheartening. Yes, they added diversity to the game. I know its the most horrible crime ever committed in the history of gaming but somehow I think their lives will go on.... If someone has valid complaints about the game and wants to post contructive criticism, I see nothing wrong with that. However, complaining about the devs being on drugs for having too many female NPCs is pretty umm...... Well....
And no, I wasn't talking about the romance between Minsc and Dynaheir, I'll just quote myself: "my point - the "dying beyond your control" part. Beamdog writer(s) tried and failed to show believable relations between characters, and said characters would never act that way if and when their beloved one died in BG2." Please stop nitpicking!
So youre problem is with how BG2 handles the characters reactions when their friends or lovers die? You're just not making much sense on that one. How would the characters know whos going to die later on while in SoD?
I understand the point about the gold, I thought it carried over.
@lazutu it wasn't easy to comprehend your "points", though - you truly exposed them chaotically.
Now that you have clarified, one can comment properly.
too many females? Canon party is Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Dynaheir and Minsc. In the prologue, you'd have Dynaheir, Minsc and Safana. What's the difference? Swap Imoen with Safana and you get a part of the bloody canon party.. what's to complain about, here? And the prologue lasts so little..
I love the gold subplot, but that's subjective. What's objective is game balancing. SoD is more akin to BG2 than to ToTSC as a game, compared to BG1: it's a full storyline, not a side quest thing. So the developers needed to control a part of any possible player "starting condition". By controlling the amount of gold you get your hands on in the prologue, they make sure you'll not go too much out of the right "range" the game has been tested with. I wholeheartedly agree with such a thing, and anyone understanding game balance would, too.
I agree that it would have been nice to be able to beat/jail the guy that lost your gold. Are you sure it's not possible, though? There were some harsh choices in the dialogue, that I haven't tried. I will try later.
I don't understand your point about "poker not being gambling". Poker is a gambling game, and as such is regulated pretty much anywhere in the world (some science, too).. but what does it have to do with, here? Got it now. I can't help you there - I found it pretty good. BG in general is full of gambling references, jokes.. sorry that your experiences prevented you from enjoying this bit.
I still don't get what you ACTUALLY mean about Minsc and Dynaheir. Can you please explain your mind more extensively? I found them extremely fitting their "roles" and rewarding from an RP perspective.
I wish you would read all of the four starting comments thoroughly. Nitpicking continues, yet the point for those comments stands. Too many female NPC's at the start (compare to ANY other game), gold taken away because "it was for the good of the (needy) people" (couldn't they take 30k, 50k, 70k?) burdened by a goddamn gambling bet. Basically, what I can do is tap them on the shoulder for throwing my life away, while there is NO opportunity to punish the gambling asshole. The spirit of "poker is not a gambling game" is strong here, but I do not want to go personal, again.
And no, I wasn't talking about the romance between Minsc and Dynaheir, I'll just quote myself: "my point - the "dying beyond your control" part. Beamdog writer(s) tried and failed to show believable relations between characters, and said characters would never act that way if and when their beloved one died in BG2." Please stop nitpicking!
No the picked nits invalidate your comments. Why on earth does it matter if there's too many female companions at the start?Like seriously... Are you a member of the he-man women haters club? They take away your gold because it means there can be a fun quest. Gold is basically meaningless by the time you reach this level anyways. I didn't even notice it until some mentioned it on this forum.
What does Dynahier dying in BG2 have to do with how they'd act towards one another in SoD? I'm actually having a lot of trouble parsing what you're even trying to say here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but is English your first language?
Ok, maybe I got his point about M&D. I think he wanted them to show affection, since we know they are going to be "parted" in BG2.
I personally prefer this way. Seems more real. Dynaheir is affectionate towards Minsc, although she is a bit touchy about his.. condition. Which is quite a recurrent theme in BG. Minsc absolutely respects and loves Dynaheir, for she's his witch and he is.. Minsc
I will dig, later, but I think Dynaheir says something about Boo in BG1, too, when joining.. or makes a snarky remark of some sort. Am I wrong?
Complaint about Safana was already discussed: we cannot fully go through the location without a Knock-mage, and we never had a choice - Safana was just put there. Writers could offer some backstory: 1) Safana joins the party while Imoen was leaning away; 2) She just happened to be in the tomb (with the Flaming Fist, possibly) and wants/needs something in order to join. The pacifiers from previous comments, those who mention BG2 starting dungeon, they cant seem to understand that you start with yourself and Imoen, and you either take Jaheira/Minsc/others, or you can get rid of them immediately. You dont begin with, say, Generic_NPC_whom_you_never_had_in_a_saved_game - and read this carefully - who forces your "recent" (2013+) female agenda views on you. Add more dialogue options, add those two options, add another thief group, dont try to force a derogatory "begging" for Safana's help. I'm quite sure she behaves veeery differently if the protagonist is a female. If so, there's my point; if not, then I'm sorry only for this part.
Excalibur_2102, can you stop insulting other board members, especially addressing them in third person? I am in the topic with you, I'm not somewhere else. The point of "too many females", you got it wrong. I am talking about ALL the females in the first locations. Necro-woman? Imoen? Flaming fist cleric? Parch-blarch-woman in red in the tomb? Kiel? First encounter with Imoen being poisoned, those women, remember? Liia Jannath? Corwin AND her daughter (let's be harsh, lets be "equal"). How many was that already? It's about amount of the female presence and dialogue compared to male's, and it's not even remotely normal.
abentwookie, same goes to you. I am here. In the topic. Address me directly, why all the condensating?..
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
It's not being critical when a topic is started with attacking someone else: "What did the authors smoke, seriously... where are my teammates... and I lost all the gold. Lol. No, seriously, who wrote THIS? Is this a joke? ". "After THIS expansion, Vanilla BG and BG2 look like paradise". Being critical is something different. Posting an opinion like it's an absolute truth is not being critical. Judging a game, entirely, after 20 minutes of play IS NOT BEING CRITICAL. Troll Zone, more than critical zone.
If you truely believe someone is trolling, why respond to them at all? Responding encourages that behavior.
@lazutu Safana is all but a "feminist" product! She's vamp. They "prey" on machos. They wouldn't exist in a "feminist-ideal" world. And you don't have to beg her.. you can play as if you "suffer her", just for your needs. Or just kick her away.
they cant seem to understand that you start with yourself and Imoen, and you either take Jaheira/Minsc/others, or you can get rid of them immediately.
And equally, what stops you from doing the same in SoD? In BG2, if you throw them away, you are alone until you go out of the dungeon and into the city. Same goes for SoD.
Also, what for my evil playthrough in BG1, where I KILLED imoen, jaheira, khalid, minsc and imoen? In BG2, you get a single canon party and you suck up inconsistencies. In SoD you have three possible starting parties, depending on your alignment. It's more flexible.
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
Oh, you mean people who did not play even BG1&2 but come here after they read some "alarming article" about how SoD is supporting SJW and LGBT, register on forums and flooding game discussions with their "honest reviews"?
The OP demonstrated total lack of elementary knowledge about BG, played for 15 minutes (worried about your refund? Still brave - to "risk" your own money just to bush a game company!) but claiming he knows it all! Yes, community here is a bit tired of it. Why don't you GGers and supporters crawl back to whatever corner of internet you came from and enjoy petting each others ego there? Or at least stick to one topic on these forums and let others discuss the game? Will be much more productive for both sides.
@lazutu and regarding female proportion of total NPCs, you know that some of them (like the Duke) are present in the larger Forgotten Realms setting, right? They couldn't change it if they wanted to.
And there are more male Grand Dukes than female. More male Flaming Fist officers than female. More male refugees than female, at a glance.
If you truly think there isn't a balance (say, more than 60% female/40% male in "named" NPCs?), please do provide a list here. I didn't notice anything amiss.
You are twisting my words. Safana IS in the party immediately at the start of the game, she doesn't even approach the protagonist - she just is in the party. And don't you dare kick her, you'll get a shower of emotions as if she somehow already was your best friend. Imoen's a sister, that I get, I can understand her feelings in Irenicus's dungeon, but Safana? Come on, it's blatant agenda. Unless writers change it to a normal encounter/introduction, she'll stay "agenda"-ish.
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
Oh, you mean people who did not play even BG1&2 but come here after they read some "alarming article" about how SoD is supporting SJW and LGBT, register on forums and flooding game discussions with their "honest reviews"?
The OP demonstrated total lack of elementary knowledge about BG, played for 15 minutes (worried about your refund? Still brave - to "risk" your own money just to bush a game company!) but claiming he knows it all! Yes, community here is a bit tired of it. Why don't you GGers and supporters crawl back to whatever corner of internet you came from and enjoy petting each others ego there? Or at least stick to one topic on these forums and let others discuss the game? Will be much more productive for both sides.
Elementary knowledge? Where did you get that? Quite the contrary, I've made those statements only because I know the game for so long, and managed to beat it with good-evil-neutral parties, on a SCS/Tactics 200% difficulty as well. I know every dialogue, sound and every item stat almost by memory! God damn it, now I do see where all the hate is coming from... show some respect and read what us "lowly males" are saying.
Excalibur_2102, can you stop insulting other board members, especially addressing them in third person?
I don't see where I've insulted anyone? If you took offence to my first post, I apologise for that and I should have addressed you directly that's true, but other than that I'm not insulting anyone. The post about "facts" wasn't aimed at anyone in particular and was just a joke about forum discussions in general.
The problem is, is that its really difficult to understand your problem with Minsc and Dynaheir. After all, they have no idea that one of them is going to die in BG2, and it would be completely out of character for them to act all mushy towards one another based on the fact that we as the gamer know they are going to die later. Doing something like this would actually be, ironically, bad writing..
EDIT: Again, I'm not 100% sure I get what you mean and if I am wrong about what your issue is here then please correct me.
The tendency here to attack individuals who are critical of the game is disheartening.
Oh, you mean people who did not play even BG1&2 but come here after they read some "alarming article" about how SoD is supporting SJW and LGBT, register on forums and flooding game discussions with their "honest reviews"?
The OP demonstrated total lack of elementary knowledge about BG, played for 15 minutes (worried about your refund? Still brave - to "risk" your own money just to bush a game company!) but claiming he knows it all! Yes, community here is a bit tired of it. Why don't you GGers and supporters crawl back to whatever corner of internet you came from and enjoy petting each others ego there? Or at least stick to one topic on these forums and let others discuss the game? Will be much more productive for both sides.
Labeling me a "GGer" and attacking me like that is contributing to the toxic atmosphere. I'm here because I care about the games. I'd prefer if you address my posts on their merits, or lack thereof, rather than lumping me in with some group.
Comments
Losing the gold is no big deal. If you start a game from a BG1save you already have super equipment and it would be unbalanced to have enough money to buy all the stuff in the Sorcerous Sundries. I still had my inventory filled with stuff to sell like the logbook of Balduran I could sell for 3000.
You know, in BG1 kinda wondered if there was anything bewtween Minsc and Dynaheir. Minsc was not born crazy and you don't know at what time they met. But there is no indication of any romance between them and it seems like just the platonic relationship of a knight for his lady, same as when Aerie becomes his witch in BG2.
- I lost my gold (around 300000) and when i discovered what happened i didn't feel betrayed, totally the opposite. There is a reason why the money was stolen and a reason why i didn't have it back (i liked it, totally my opinion). I made more than 30000 just selling the junk in my coffer.
- Romantic relationship between Dynaheir and Minsc??? Ok, i will just pretend i didn't read it.
And anyway, Dynaheir talks more in the screenshot than in the whole bg1. After we save her from the Gnolls she and Minsc talk for two lines of dialog. Not much sweet feelings on it. But hey, old is always better. Minsc took a few days (in the game, bg2) for change witch. He just moved on, even if he cared about her. But hey, vanilla is paradise, let's just attack the new game.
Of course i would too like more explanations for the NPCs to leave. I wanted to keep Yeslick, but the explanation he gave on the prologue for leaving was very long compared to how much he talked in bg1. The NPCs in bg1 didn't have much personality, most of them not even a bit.
Safana? Never liked her, and i ignored her from the beginning of SoD. She never joined my team, i took Glint.
And no it's not the same as BG2. That's a completely separate game where you start off with nothing. This one literally starts you off right after the final battle with the big bad. Hell, it's even called CHAPTER 8.
Being critical is something different. Posting an opinion like it's an absolute truth is not being critical. Judging a game, entirely, after 20 minutes of play IS NOT BEING CRITICAL. Troll Zone, more than critical zone.
Man you have to play with the NPCs the game offers to you, like in every game.
And it's not like the ones from the first saga aren't enough anyway.
You don't want to "collect them till half game like Pokemon"?
Alora, Quayle, Skie, Tiax? Do they ring a bell?
And just a few maps before: Faldorn, Eldoth, Coran and Yeslick?
20 years of BG and you claim that Minsc and Dynaheir should display their romantic relationship, really?
You posted 4 messages of accusations peaking with the conclusion that you'll go for a solo story mode after you barely played 50 min...
Now I ask you: is this a joke?
I'd recommend you, in general, to know what you're talking about before judging something. (You'll get to know why Khalid left you, for example.)
If you'll still find the game crap after playing it properly, go on exposing your critics - like it should be.
Have fun
Everyone goes their way. It is all explained.
Losing the gold is also explained. It is better explained than start of bg2
And no, I wasn't talking about the romance between Minsc and Dynaheir, I'll just quote myself: "my point - the "dying beyond your control" part. Beamdog writer(s) tried and failed to show believable relations between characters, and said characters would never act that way if and when their beloved one died in BG2." Please stop nitpicking!
I understand the point about the gold, I thought it carried over.
Now that you have clarified, one can comment properly.
I don't understand your point about "poker not being gambling". Poker is a gambling game, and as such is regulated pretty much anywhere in the world (some science, too).. but what does it have to do with, here?Got it now. I can't help you there - I found it pretty good. BG in general is full of gambling references, jokes.. sorry that your experiences prevented you from enjoying this bit.Female companions in SoD: Safana, Jaheira, Corwin, M'khiin, Neera, Dynaheir, Viconia
That's 8 (9 if Tiax is confirmed by evil CHARNAME) males vs 7 females. I think I'm even more confused than I was before.
What does Dynahier dying in BG2 have to do with how they'd act towards one another in SoD? I'm actually having a lot of trouble parsing what you're even trying to say here. I'm not trying to be insulting, but is English your first language?
Seriously though, don't expect facts to change their opinions.
I personally prefer this way. Seems more real. Dynaheir is affectionate towards Minsc, although she is a bit touchy about his.. condition. Which is quite a recurrent theme in BG. Minsc absolutely respects and loves Dynaheir, for she's his witch and he is.. Minsc
I will dig, later, but I think Dynaheir says something about Boo in BG1, too, when joining.. or makes a snarky remark of some sort. Am I wrong?
Excalibur_2102, can you stop insulting other board members, especially addressing them in third person? I am in the topic with you, I'm not somewhere else. The point of "too many females", you got it wrong. I am talking about ALL the females in the first locations. Necro-woman? Imoen? Flaming fist cleric? Parch-blarch-woman in red in the tomb? Kiel? First encounter with Imoen being poisoned, those women, remember? Liia Jannath? Corwin AND her daughter (let's be harsh, lets be "equal"). How many was that already? It's about amount of the female presence and dialogue compared to male's, and it's not even remotely normal.
abentwookie, same goes to you. I am here. In the topic. Address me directly, why all the condensating?..
But anyways. You say, referring to BG2: And equally, what stops you from doing the same in SoD? In BG2, if you throw them away, you are alone until you go out of the dungeon and into the city. Same goes for SoD.
Also, what for my evil playthrough in BG1, where I KILLED imoen, jaheira, khalid, minsc and imoen? In BG2, you get a single canon party and you suck up inconsistencies. In SoD you have three possible starting parties, depending on your alignment. It's more flexible.
The OP demonstrated total lack of elementary knowledge about BG, played for 15 minutes (worried about your refund? Still brave - to "risk" your own money just to bush a game company!) but claiming he knows it all! Yes, community here is a bit tired of it. Why don't you GGers and supporters crawl back to whatever corner of internet you came from and enjoy petting each others ego there? Or at least stick to one topic on these forums and let others discuss the game? Will be much more productive for both sides.
And there are more male Grand Dukes than female. More male Flaming Fist officers than female. More male refugees than female, at a glance.
If you truly think there isn't a balance (say, more than 60% female/40% male in "named" NPCs?), please do provide a list here. I didn't notice anything amiss.
The problem is, is that its really difficult to understand your problem with Minsc and Dynaheir. After all, they have no idea that one of them is going to die in BG2, and it would be completely out of character for them to act all mushy towards one another based on the fact that we as the gamer know they are going to die later. Doing something like this would actually be, ironically, bad writing..
EDIT: Again, I'm not 100% sure I get what you mean and if I am wrong about what your issue is here then please correct me.
Labeling me a "GGer" and attacking me like that is contributing to the toxic atmosphere. I'm here because I care about the games. I'd prefer if you address my posts on their merits, or lack thereof, rather than lumping me in with some group.