My basic party outline, does anyone else use it?
Dragonspear
Member Posts: 1,838
Especially in BG2/TOB and IWD2 I use this basic party setup for all my parties. Please note that this is not true 100% of the time but I noticed when I was trying to make my evil party the other day that I used one basic outline for all my parties for "balance". In particular any party of mine is the following:
Sword and Board Warrior often sent in first. This guy is USUALLY a dwarf fighter, although I've done so with a paladin in games that don't have 2h holy avengers (which make me sad), and I've used a dwarven fighter/cleric before too (Was IWD).
2h Warrior: This one is usually a paladin to the point that they've become my favorite characters to play. They were originally Paladins due to Carsomyr. (This sentence made me realize just how much of an influence BG and BG2 had on me)
Dual Wield Warrior: This guy is usually an elf of some sort, most of the time they're also rangers. If I have a paladin tank then there is a good chance that this character becomes a happily axe wielding dwarf.
Archer McSniper: The problem here is that rangers (especially in BG2) really fill this role the best. Either way this is my happy bow user of the party.
Divine Caster: Official heal and buffbot. They also tend to have a strange obsession with turn undead and the 5th level spell Flame Strike.
The Arcane Blaster: I use a lot more of the mage support spells nowadays (sleep, haste, slow, web has always been a personal favorite, chaos), but in the end nothing turns a bad day good by just fireballing a pack of goblins or orcs.
Anyway does anyone else use this general setup?
Sword and Board Warrior often sent in first. This guy is USUALLY a dwarf fighter, although I've done so with a paladin in games that don't have 2h holy avengers (which make me sad), and I've used a dwarven fighter/cleric before too (Was IWD).
2h Warrior: This one is usually a paladin to the point that they've become my favorite characters to play. They were originally Paladins due to Carsomyr. (This sentence made me realize just how much of an influence BG and BG2 had on me)
Dual Wield Warrior: This guy is usually an elf of some sort, most of the time they're also rangers. If I have a paladin tank then there is a good chance that this character becomes a happily axe wielding dwarf.
Archer McSniper: The problem here is that rangers (especially in BG2) really fill this role the best. Either way this is my happy bow user of the party.
Divine Caster: Official heal and buffbot. They also tend to have a strange obsession with turn undead and the 5th level spell Flame Strike.
The Arcane Blaster: I use a lot more of the mage support spells nowadays (sleep, haste, slow, web has always been a personal favorite, chaos), but in the end nothing turns a bad day good by just fireballing a pack of goblins or orcs.
Anyway does anyone else use this general setup?
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Comments
A sword and board beefy warrior, with the other warrior being either dual wield or 2h.
Ranger is ranger, always the bow.
Cleric is a cleric.
I'm one of the mages, always a sorcerer.
I tend towards a similar setup, but recently I've gotten a new appreciation for divine casters. One my favorite BG1 runs included a fighter/cleric PC, Jaheira, and Viconia all in the same party. The only downside is that, at least in the scope of BG, druids tend to be a little more gimp than they needed to be.
I tend to dislike paladins because of the roleplaying implications. Plus, I hate that ever paladin build in BG2 has to account for Carsomyr (but that's a rant for another thread).
I've heard of that setup too, especially in SoA/ToB where you get a healthy amount of mage options. In fact unless you bring Mazzy or make your own Archer, usually my sniper ends up being Imoen who doubles as my second mage.
I just have a personal preference towards melee based parties (my favorite characters are Paladins, Rangers, Fighters in that order and if I ever make a legit 3e PnP character I'm going to try to make a Paladin/Fighter/Ranger). Thanks for your input however, since if you bring 2 mages, especially if one is a sorc then you have a very capable blaster and your second mage is suddenly easily able to fill in the debuff and support role.
I understand your complaint about every paladin build needing to kinda revolve around Carsomyr, although honestly The Purifier +5 (Once you upgrade with the Eye of Tyr) is arguably better than Carsomyr, I'd argue even better than Carsomyr +6. I have the same problem in IWD and IWD2 because Pale Justice is a Longsword (which is not the style of Paladin I prefer), and it's kinda frustrating.
I do agree that divine casters are amazing, I personally love having Anomen combined with a Cavalier Paladin for a nice amount of divine might (especially just a Cavalier with the personal buff spells from 1-4). I really need to run a Canon party still and I think Jaheria + Cavalier + Anomen would be really nice. The problem is you have Minsc and you lack an archer. If you add an archer ranger, then you bring Keldorn for Carsomyr (which I'm fine with) but then you don't really spread out the proficiency love like you would with having a dual wielder.
Which reminds me I just need to make a comprehensive party thread for all my party ideas and let people give me tips, advice and suggestions for parties instead of just a thread for each.
This way I have a couple of tanks in the front line, a Thief to get in and backstab, 1 healer healing everyone and helping with the tanks, and 2 x Mages supporting with their spells.
For a good party set-up (BG2) I've had Cleric/Ranger Flail/Shield (PC), Keldorn, Haer'dalis, Anomen, Imoen & an archer (Mazzy, Valygar or custom ranger archer).
Evil party setup (BG2) - Fighter/Thief (PC), Korgan, Jaheria, Viconia, Edwin, Jan (I usually have him focus on traps, locks & detect illusion so my fighter/thief is free to focus on hide, move silently etc). I've also forsaken Jan & waited for Saravok then had Jaheria mainly ranged.
I always have an even spilt of meele/ranged characters. I've had alot of different setups over the years though so these aren't static formations. It also depends alot on my PC, I've played a fighter/mage alot too. So that strikes Jan or Haer'dalis from my party.
I always have a Paladin in my IWD party, esspecially in IWD2. Great additional content if you have one & bonuses.
My first PC for BGEE will be a Blackguard so I've got a different party planned but it depends alot on what the cap is!
IWD1 party is usually, Paladin (I have the same issues as you I like them to be THW users in this game so I forsake pale justice), Dwarf Fighter - Axe/shield, Elven or Halfling Fighter/Thief Long sword (or short sword or dagger)/shield, Gnome Cleric/mage, Human fighter/mage dual & a single class Cleric or Druid.
I won't get into IWD2 or BG2 parties since this is far too long as it is! Can't picture anyone bothering to read all this but I enjoyed typing it so that's the main thing.
My party:
Paladin: Sword/Shield or 2h sword
Fighter: 2h sword or dual-wield longsword/katana/bastard sword
Fighter/Cleric: Flail/Mace//Shield
Cleric: Sling
Mage: Sling/Staff
Fighter/Thief: Longbow/Shortbow//Shortsword/Longsword
I like melee toons too, although I prefer ones that bring some utility with them, like Stalkers (strong at both range and melee, works well as a scout, can backstab for fun). In BG1, though, the playstyle gets a bit dull. Ranged weapon equipped? Good, now click mob. Repeat ad nauseum. Use an AI script like 'Ranger Ranged' to make this even more boring!
In BG2 especially, I prefer PCs that can fill some niche class that NPCs can't: Druids, Skalds, Swashbucklers, Sorcs, etc.
Absolutely post your party comp ideas. I need them. I always have a tough time deciding who I want, especially since I prefer to stick with the same group for an entire run. (BG2, for some reason, almost requires that you play the RPG version of musical chairs with your party members).
Class(Level)
Fighter(+)/Rogue(3): Two Handed Sword (With a tiny bit of backstab bonus)
Berserker(+)/Fighter(4): Axe and Shield (Meatshield)
Rogue(+)/Fighter(4): Shortsword and Shield or Crossbow (Stats/Feats focusing on Damage)
Rogue(+)/Fighter(4): Longbow or Dagger (Feats/Skills focusing on scouting)
Demarch of Mask(+)/Illusionist(4): Casting Invisibility spells and Support spells
Sorcerer(+): Skull Traps and Fireballs
Yes, I like sneaky backstabby setups, though still kinda follows the meta.
2 Warriors
2 Mages
1 Healer
1 Thief
1-2 Alternatives*
*Of course, a multiclass (for instance Jan or Aerie) can fill in more than just one role, if that's the case, then I'll also have some Alternative classes at disposal.
For instance, let's say my main PC is a Chaotic Good Fighter/Mage Elf.
In that case, according to my scheme, I'll have
- 1 Warrior
- 1 Mage
Now, since my character roleplays a good mage, which will be the main damager of the party, I'll usually go with a Tank warrior as my "first mate". Minsc at first might seem a bad choice, but if you let him dual-wield flails (flail of ages + defender of Easthaven) he is quite easily the best tank in the game. So we have
For story purposes I'll also have Imoen for most of the storyline, of course as she's available. Swap with Yoshimo when she's not. Meaning that my party counter will have :
- 2 Warriors
- 2 Mages
- 1 Thief*
As pointed out, I'll have Yoshi and Immy. Immy might not be a full thief, but her abilities are just enough to take you out of the games alive. Now we go to the healer/priest, which is a tricky one. I for one don't play the games to "death", as in, if one of my character dies, I usually, most of the times, reload. That's why a CLERIC is not necessary in my case. Looking at who we have at our disposal is - Jaheira, Aerie, Anomen, Viconia and Cernd. All around, Viconia and Cernd are the best options really. Former because she's a straight cleric without annoyances (*coughanomencough*) and the latter because of 18 wisdom which is SUPREME. And since I roleplay a good character, I go with Cernd in this one case (I am one of the few who likes him a lot actually).
Note that I use the healer not only for healing, but for alternative buffs. Death Ward, Chaotic Commands, Negative Plane Protection are all available to a druid and that's all I ask for.
- 2 Warriors
- 2 Mages
- 1 Healer
- 1 Thief
Yet we still have two slots open, despite having 6 classes already. This is where the game really shines for me. I might leave one slot always open for NPC sidequests, but why would I do that, when I can have a powerhouse?
In these few little spots left I'll go with characters like Nalia, Haer'dalis, Jan, Korgan, Keldorn.
Now in my case, I have good spells, but only once I make it to spellhold. Haer'dalis is possibly one of the best Alternatives available as he can become a good spellcaster as well as fighter. It is as good an option as any to accompany me all the way till spellhold really.
The second option is a tougher call. I am a good character, Keldorn would fit nice, but since I am good, I'd rather keep him with his family. Nalia could be good as a third spellcaster with alternative spells which you wouldn't use with your main spellcasters. Ultimately, characters like Valygar and Mazzy are also available, especially the latter one, as she's a good archer.
Let's say in the case of Alternatives, we go with Haer'Dalis and Mazzy. In this case, our party layout will be -
PC Fighter/Mage : Main damager, main spellcaster (robe of Vecna)
Minsc : Main tank (dual wielding FoA and DoE)
Imoen/Yoshimo : Main thief, former being second-line spellcaster.
Cernd : Main healer
Haer'dalis : Alternative damager/spellcaster (extraordinarily good at crowd controlling without AoE)
Mazzy : Alternative Archer/Tank (when bows fail, shields go well)
So in this one case, my party layout will be
2.5 warriors (let's say a blade counts as half warrior half mage)
2.5 mages
1 arhcer
1 thief
1 healer
Which by my standards is a jolly fine party!
So basically I use the same rule always when it comes to party building. The bases are there, if I have slots, I'll use them as best as I can
Comfortably, I play with 1 melee fighter, 1 ranged fighter, 1 cleric, 1 mage, 1 thief. The sixth I can do whatever I want, if I actually even want to due to experience points being a bit hard to come by in BG1. So, a bard or a druid most likely, possibly another mage.
Even more comfortable is just 1 fighter, 1 thief, 1 mage, 1 cleric. That is a very standard party set up and it just works. The epitome of that is: Kagain, Imoen, Edwin, and (insert your cleric here). There you have all the best from their respective classes. Of course, I hardly do that party set up every run. I'm just saying that it made the game spectacularly easy. I typically stay somewhere within that line of thinking though.
I *might* lean more towards your fighter-heavy set up in BGII, and especially ToB. But for BG1, no, definitely not.
I've wanted to try a pure setup in IWD and IWD2 (Fighter, Mage, Cleric, Thief) before I took it into BG but that's definitely on the list for a future playthrough.
In 6 man party-based games most of my parties look something like this: 2 mage types / 2 healer types / (filler)
Random tidbit: in single-player RPGs I can never take offensive magic without defensive magic even when I try to challenge myself. After a few hours I end up discarding the character if I can't heal myself, even if healing potions are plentiful or I have alchemy of some sort. ^_^
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In BG1/2 IWD1/2 my parties tend towards
2 sorcerer OR pure mage OR bard
3 cleric/mage OR thief/mage OR cleric/thief OR fighter/(cleric OR druid)
1 fighter OR paladin OR ranger
Which I've found it generally means:
-1-1-1-1-1-
PC mage OR PC cleric/thief OR PC bard
Imoen
Xzar & Monty (until Monty mysteriously dies O.O )
Dynaheir & Minsc (until Minsc mysteriously dies O.O )
Branwen / Yeslick
Kagain / Kivan
-2-2-2-2-2-
PC sorceress/mage OR PC cleric/thief OR PC bard
Jaheira & Imoen / Jaheira & Jan
Keldorn & (Korgan OR Sarevok)
Haer'Dalis
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It's funny to look back and realize that I've grown to like casters in the BG series when it was the spell system and spell memorization of clerics and mages which put me off BG2 when I first tried it. :>
It's not going to be a big change to adapt my preferred play-style to include all 3 new NPCs (which I plan on using all in one go).
PC sorceress/mage OR PC cleric/thief OR PC bard
Imoen (dualed to mage @ 100 find traps; for lockpicking there's Knock)
Neera (unreliable mage) ... might pick Dynaheir & Minsc (who will mysteriously die O.O ) after Neera's quest if I dislike her personality
Branwen/ Yeslick (if the speculation that Rasaad is hunting down a cult of Shar turns out to be true, Viconia might be worth taking)
Rasaad & Dorn
I guess there are some essential classes for me, though. I do always have the basic class skills represented, as the game becomes a bit chore-like and tedious if they're lacking. I need someone with thieving skills, and with healing abilities. I want traps detected and removed, and locks picked. I don't want to have to rely strictly on potions and visits to temples to heal. I virtually always have at least one wizard.
Beyond that it's wide open for me.
After seeing @Cheesebelly s post I regret not putting up my BG1 & IWD2 parties!
My all-star team:
Kagain
Coran
Kivan
Viconia
Edwin
Give Kagain the Boots of Speed and Girdle of Piercing. He'll charge groups alone while ranged throws out volleys of arrows and bullets. He's got dorf saving throws and can be so heavily armored early on, nobody will be able to hit him. By mid-game (Ch 4-5), Kivan and Coran will both have incredibly low thac0s. Their kill/XP stats alone will put most other groups to shame.
Enemy mages get hit in the first round with Dispel Magic and Silence almost in tandem. Then you can taken them out at will or just ignore them. Any mob not wearing heavy armor dies immediately. Any mob that *is* wearing heavy armor drops to the second volley.
Using this team with a PC true class thief, I dropped almost every chapter-end boss in ~5 seconds or less in the unmodded vanilla game.
Downsides: You have to juggle your rep a little bit to make sure nobody bolts. And it does tend to get a little dull, considering how easily you can steamroll whole groups while taking no damage at all.
You can't do any of that at all in BG2 and it frustrates me to no end.
Half-Orc Barbarian or Fighter
Human Sorcerer or Mage
It works and they will be swimming in xp!
I feel like I'm missing out on the BG1 chatter, here's some of my usual setups:
PC Fighter/Thief
Khalid
Yeslick
Coran
Qualey
Edwin
PC Cleric/Ranger
Kagain
Shar-Teel (fighter/thief)
Coran
Qualey
Edwin
I also play a fighter/mage quite often but my party is usually a mix of those two groups. I typically play BG1 with a more alignment mixed party than BG2. Completely different party planned for EE higher XP cap willing. But same 3 meele 3 ranged deal. I always try to ensure no character is left wanting regarding a particular item hence no Kagain & Yeslick together in the same group etc. My main reason for not having a single class cleric in my party is that in standard BG1 multi classed Clerics can reach the same spells & gain the benefits of a second class. Viconia in BG2 is a favorite of mine, she just waits until then (though I've had her in BG1 in F/M parties).
Ranger
Druid
Mage
Thief
Bard
Cleric
ie. lots of magic casting going on.