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Imoen Transition in SoD?

ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
in Baldur's Gate: Siege of Dragonspear
I have to say, it's pretty weird having Imoen leveled up to a level 9 Wizard, and then I get to SoD and she says she's learning magic from some lady? What has she been doing for the last 140k xp?

I get that there's nothing for the transition that could be done for the original games, but it's a bit disappointing that there wasn't anything put in place for Imoen having already started learning magic when it was a popular enough choice in BG1 that she was defaulted to a thief/mage in BG2.

Comments

  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    The ultimate "canon Imoen" would be one exactly the one us players have her level up and develop, and then transfered to SoA. Could it be done? I don't know how far they can get with official NPC's customization, so in my opinion they did a nice job trying to explain Imoen's dual class, and it didn't bother me that my Imoen was already a level 9 wizard as well. I consider that she had been learning on her own, and the Duchess would provide her with more technical knowledge.

  • Hughes_de_PayenHughes_de_Payen Member Posts: 7
    i used the ctrl+q command and put Imoen into my party only problem is she wont fight. just repeatedly says sorry im not in the mood to fight today er somthing like that.any thing i can do to correct this?custom scripts dont do anything.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    DJKajuru said:

    The ultimate "canon Imoen" would be one exactly the one us players have her level up and develop, and then transfered to SoA. Could it be done? I don't know how far they can get with official NPC's customization, so in my opinion they did a nice job trying to explain Imoen's dual class, and it didn't bother me that my Imoen was already a level 9 wizard as well. I consider that she had been learning on her own, and the Duchess would provide her with more technical knowledge.

    The explanation is great for games that didn't choose to make her a wizard, but it's disruptive to suspension of disbelief for ones that did, and it's a common enough choice that an alternative explanation should have been mentioned in the expansion's intro for why she's having issues with her magic. After all, it's not like she's an apprentice -- Cloud Kill and Chaos are powerful spells that take a good deal of experience to master, and there's no reason to believe that any other dual class wizard wouldn't be just as susceptible to blowing themselves up.
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    They're trying to bridge the gap between BG1 and BG2. There are many things in BG2 that can be inconsistent with a BG1 play through, such as various characters being killed who are now alive and well.

    Since they're bridging a gap that already exists, and they aren't allowed to make changes to the core material in BG2, the explanation in SoD likely revolves around the idea that she was a level 7 thief before she dual classed over. During the course of SoD, she gains several levels as a mage which allow her to be the level 7/8 dual classed thief/mage that is introduced to us in BG2.
  • Wraith_SarevokWraith_Sarevok Member Posts: 130
    It's because for whatever reason, they felt so limited as to make Imoen a canon dual-classed Thief/Mage and to tie that into the plot. Only because that's the way she starts in BG2. When it's totally unecessary. You don't need to explain every single thing that happens to every single character, we can kind of figure it out on our own.

    As a result, you lose the ability to customize her the way you could in BG1. Instead of making your own story and characters, you know... like in a ROLEPLAYING game, you're forced to walk the developer's preset path in many cases.
  • SikorskySikorsky Member Posts: 402
    edited April 2016
    I think it would have more sense if they change Imoen in BG:EE II to Thief10/Mage11. It would make more sense for those who didn't dual her during BG:EE.

    P.S. They had change Quayles dexterity so I think they could also do that.
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    I like it. In BG1 I always felt honour bound to dual her. Im playing BGEE through now and for first time ive not felt like I had to dual her.
  • WayniacWayniac Member Posts: 132
    edited April 2016
    The improvement that you're all requesting is not Imoen specific.

    The improvement that is being asked for is a more accurate record of variables that are imported from BG1 into SoD and from SoD into BG2. And for the record, I'm totally on board with you guys. At the time, it was incredible to be able to move one character and a few items from one game into the next. Today, we see it happen all the time with tons of data from the save as well (Mass Effect).

    So really, ideally, I guess I'm saying what we'd like to see, now that they are capable of doing this, is for many variables to be saved and transitioned through all games, such as character levels and classes, romances, etc.

    It also makes for a more interesting situation when you have to choose who to give a tome of dexterity to, knowing that the other character's stats will be saved and transfer into subsequent games BG2, allowing for dual-class options there too.

    Imoen can obviously dual to a mage.
    Dynaheir can dual to a Cleric after 2 WIS tomes.
    Branwen can dual to a Thief with 1 DEX tome.
    Safana can dual to a Mage with 1 INT tome.
    Shar-Teel can dual to a Thief.
    Xzar can dual to a Cleric with 1 WIS tome OR a Thief with 1 DEX tome.
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    Im totally for this, its something they have/are considering as now they support game export. It may be that it becomes officially supported otherwise it will be in EET I think.
  • BladeDancerBladeDancer Member Posts: 477
    edited April 2016
    It's doubly weird how Imoen can suddenly learn how to cast spells with no training from an NPC but because a certain omnipresent authority figure wanted her to multi-class. And that certain omnipresent figure is not supposed to exist in the D&D world.
  • GozetaGozeta Member Posts: 105
    edited April 2016
    I just think of Imoen being as an amateur mage at that point, who is now being taught the spells properly. (Or whatever.) SOD is still a great story. XD
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    It sucks not having Imoen in the party after going through all of BG1, but I look at it like Imoen did not receive (or pay as much attention to) the magic lessons a mage CHARNAME would have gone through when young from Gorion, so in order to advance higher and completely control the power she needs to have the formal training. I certainly don't want to take the time off to teach her, so this works out okay.
  • DasieqDasieq Member Posts: 135
    Shes godling after all... perhaps its easier for her to learn things naturally. Also... we know that SoD is starting over 2 weeks after Sarevoks death. So... imagine how many levels and progress you can have as a mage in BG1 playing 2 weeks (in game). 9 levels? Maybe not... I mean its possible! Very hard to survive and stuff but its possible still. I relive together with her again after finishing all Saga. I really love her character in this game, its not hard to believe she can learn fast, shes qiute inteligent. A good teacher is required, hope this lady in the palace isn't bad :)
  • chilvencechilvence Member Posts: 50
    I think you can sort of imagine dual classing as a kind of 'mid life career choice crisis'. If you reach 30 and decide that you suddenly want to become a carpenter, there is nothing stopping you from starting off on your own, but eventually, you'll simply want to seek training, because everybody learns something from somebody else, and you'll jump at the first opportunity to take it. If a chance is shoved into your lap, you don't just throw it away.

    You could say that Imoen is smart enough to branch out and learn magic on her own, but would jump at the opportunity to receive formal training from a master of the arcane.... all while having an all expenses paid holiday in a palace. can hardly tell her not to, eh?

    It may not have been baked into the game so elegantly, but it would have been one of those things that takes time away from other stuff, without actually adding much to the game considering what happens in BG2 anyway.
  • SikorskySikorsky Member Posts: 402
    Wayniac said:

    The improvement that you're all requesting is not Imoen specific.

    The improvement that is being asked for is a more accurate record of variables that are imported from BG1 into SoD and from SoD into BG2. And for the record, I'm totally on board with you guys. At the time, it was incredible to be able to move one character and a few items from one game into the next. Today, we see it happen all the time with tons of data from the save as well (Mass Effect).

    So really, ideally, I guess I'm saying what we'd like to see, now that they are capable of doing this, is for many variables to be saved and transitioned through all games, such as character levels and classes, romances, etc.

    It also makes for a more interesting situation when you have to choose who to give a tome of dexterity to, knowing that the other character's stats will be saved and transfer into subsequent games BG2, allowing for dual-class options there too.

    Imoen can obviously dual to a mage.
    Dynaheir can dual to a Cleric after 2 WIS tomes.
    Branwen can dual to a Thief with 1 DEX tome.
    Safana can dual to a Mage with 1 INT tome.
    Shar-Teel can dual to a Thief.
    Xzar can dual to a Cleric with 1 WIS tome OR a Thief with 1 DEX tome.

    It can be possible if they make BG I and II one game. Put it all together and make a Trilogy. There will be no need to export characters. Just smooth transitions from one Chapter to enother. From a technical point of view it is possible. From a legal point of view it is not I think.
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    Ye but where beamdog cant go mods can. EET is an exciting prospect for me mainly for this reason.
  • ObjulenObjulen Member Posts: 93
    That being said, consider the number of characters listed that require Tomes to do so -- everyone except for Imoen and Shar-Teel. So while it can be disruptive, assuming that most of those characters appear in SoD/BG2 as recruitable NPCs, they are much, much rarer choices than just dropping the Tomes on the PC. Better support for character record transfers across the saga would be great, assuming that there aren't engine limitations or other technical issues afoot, of course, but Imoen's introduction is simply egregious and an in-your-face disruption of continuity that existed, as far as game play is concerned, less than five minutes ago.
  • Mikey205Mikey205 Member Posts: 307
    Ye I mean for me the main thing is proficiency choices. I set Jaheira and Minsc up a certain way and then suddenly they're completely different. Im happy to use ee keeper at the moment but EET is going to fix im pretty sure. As far as dualling goes id like for those to be carried forward for npcs you can keep as well.
  • kellclkellcl Member Posts: 24
    I think it would be funny if they were to make the mentor of Imoen summoning a gibberling for each training session for Imoen to train magic on inside Ducal palace, therefore she slowly xp grinds her way to one level above her thief like all of us tend to one way or the other in dual-classing, in spirit at least. Makes sense story-wise in a funny/realistic way.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    DJKajuru said:

    The ultimate "canon Imoen" would be one exactly the one us players have her level up and develop, and then transfered to SoA. Could it be done?

    A better question is, will the engine allow this?
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    I have high hopes for EET to be able to do this

    http://gibberlings3.net/forums/index.php?showforum=195
  • VbibbiVbibbi Member Posts: 229
    The Imoen character file in Irenicus' dungeon is different than the one in Spellhold. So there would also need to be some way of updating both versions; I think the Spellhold version sets her level based on the PC when we get to Chapter 4.
  • LegendaryLegendary Member Posts: 53
    I just figured it was her getting more regimented training over her previously field-learned magic
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