Technically, it should be "Soon™." Can't forget that trademark.
Still, wouldn't mind seeing the shaman and those 2.0 changes brought to Icewind Dale. I've gotten so used to some things (like the outlines helping me see NPCs) that it's a little hard to play the game.
I don't know why you guys are so hyped by that class. From a Metagaming perspective this class is very weak and should be buffed. The Shaman is not even decent compared to Sorcerer, F|M, Monk, Kensage etc.
Come on even a cleric is more usefull^^ Hope shaman gets multiclass options in the future. But whatever play what you want. Btw i dont minmax. I roll all my characters with min. Cha 10 because a Avatar with Cha 3 has the personality of a stone^^
I don't know why you guys are so hyped by that class. From a Metagaming perspective this class is very weak and should be buffed. The Shaman is not even decent compared to Sorcerer, F|M, Monk, Kensage etc.
No other class can spontaneously cast Druid spells. I like Sorcerer-type casting quite a bit, so that's enough for me to want a Shaman to mess around with in IWD.
Imagine a fighter/shaman that would be n1. But my main concern about shaman is to buff the spirit dance. Allow Shaman to summon the spirits and MOVE. Beside that spirits should become stronger in Endgame. Late Game in BG2 the spirits are to weak compared to summon undead, Deva etc. I mean its a divine summoner class and the spirits are there main weapons. Dont get me wrong i play other classes beside the typical powergaming choices but imo single class thieves (expect swashbuckler), single class druids and shamans are not that great late game in BG2. Druid Spells from IWD in BG would be a n1 first step.
Come on even a cleric is more usefull^^ Hope shaman gets multiclass options in the future. But whatever play what you want. Btw i dont minmax. I roll all my characters with min. Cha 10 because a Avatar with Cha 3 has the personality of a stone^^
Maybe you and I have a different definition of "useful". Shamans are very useful.
yeah clerics are useful. it was late when i wrote this. But you cant deny that there are some classes that are not as good as others. i wrote what should be buffed for the shaman class in my opinion. Take the thief as another example. The stealth mechanic in SoD is broken. There is a threat in the Forums about this. That should be fixed too. I think the devs should be stabalize BG first before the new stuff come to IWD. There are some good things in SOD and some bad things and i would prefer if they take care of BG first and do not implement broken stuff to IWD too. But i dont want to rant too much here. Your opinions for the shaman class are fine but i think the class could become better with a few tweaks.
Their spellcasting is better than druids imo, and their combat is arguably better too. The dance isn't great and could do with a little something more, but I find it at least as good as a druids shapeshift. Some kind of multiclass options would be nice, but not necessarily required - I like the idea of barbarian/shaman, while other fighter kits get regular druids.
Having just gotten into endgame with my shaman, they also seem a little lacking in HLAs - as a summoning class they lack all of the top druid summons (great elemental and the planetars), which makes them the weakest summoners of any primary caster. From memory, IWD doesn't have HLAs, right? So the shaman spirits may well be viable right to the end.
I don't know why you guys are so hyped by that class. From a Metagaming perspective this class is very weak and should be buffed. The Shaman is not even decent compared to Sorcerer, F|M, Monk, Kensage etc.
Interesting. You say the class is very weak, and yet I'm steamrolling the trilogy with one. How do you explain this? WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THIS MYSTERY!?
Interesting. You say the class is very weak, and yet I'm steamrolling the trilogy with one. How do you explain this? WHAT IS THE CAUSE OF THIS MYSTERY!?
If I had to speculate, @Wutan1988 really didn't give the Shaman a proper go.
First of all dont be sarcastic please. I want a normal discussion and no bad blood here. Second whats your definition of steamrolling? As an support class i think it would be fine. That you do not have to memorize druid spells is good. The shaman exclusive spells are also fine but the Spirit Dance is weak compared to other summons. You cant move. You get an armor class debuff. You cant controll your spirits. The spirits maybe decent in Bg and SoD but in BG2 and ToB there are just death fooder for Death Spells. The kit description describes the Shaman as somoene who calls spirits to aid them in battle. But in Late Game Saga i would prefer a Deva, Planetar, Summon Death, Higher Elemental Swarm 1000 times over them. Scale the spirits better with the level of the Shaman. For all gods sake stay at the dont move thing but allow the player to controll the spirits and give the Shaman unique HLAs. For now i prefer Fighter/Druid over them. But the shaman is much better compared to single class druids. In my opinion the development of the Blackguard and the monk kits were better than that of the shaman. The Shaman feels unfinished for me and i think with a few tweaks it would become very viable like the totem druid in IWD.
Yeah that works. But whats the point then? Thats the same strategy the Fighter/Druid uses (except the axes;D). But the Fighter/Druid gets Weapon Specialisation, Fighter HLAs, Heavy Armor and Dual Wielding (Belm for example). I think with the adjustments i mentioned the Shaman would be a very good and unique divine summoner and that is in terms of flavour also very welcome i think.
yeah you are right but eventually the devs surprise me with future updates and makes the spirits more viable. i dont want to mod my games atm because i wait for much needed bugfixes, the option to take over Clint and other NPCs over to BG2 etc. (good job for Clint btw Beamdog. In my opinion the most enjoyable NPC.) I will be patient and see what future brings to the table. Atm i am playing Icewind Dale and wait for BG to be more polished and finished.
No sarcasm intended. Was going for humor to illustrate that I disagree with you, but looks like I missed the mark.
By streamrolling I mean I haven't had to reload yet. I mean that none of the encounters have been undouable, and I've actually had relatively little trouble. Many encounters that I've traditionally had trouble with have been trivially easy.
I have ranged with Gesen, become a 20 STR axe-weilding half-orc when that (rarely) goes wrong. I don't have to prepare spells beforehand. Given that the Druid spell selection mostly sucks, the 2-4 good spells are there as I need them. I can meatshield some pets before I rush my character in (don't bother trying to dance before level 6. Level 12 or so, you're actually pretty good off). People compare it to the Sorc, and I think that's a bad example. It is to the divine world what the Blade is to the magic. A little of this, a little of that. None of the idividual areas are going to much compete with specialists in that area - it can't out-shoot an Archer, out-cast a Cleric, out-summon a Druid, or out-tank a Fighter. But it can do all of those things to a more or lesser degree.
It's a strategy and synergy class. If it clicks with you how all of that works together, it's an amazing class. If you want point and click whacking, or insta-win Sorcing, you're going to be very dissapointed.
And let's be clear. It's not a Kensage, Berserker-Cleric, or Swashy-Fighter. If you expect THAT level of pwn, you are REALLY going to be dissapointed. But if you want a different class that has a ton of strengths, a different way to play, and is plenty powerful to kick the games ass, you won't be dissapointed.
Just don't get me started on the Blackguard. That's not good design. That class is utterly OP for this game. It has HUGE, HUGE advantages, and NO disadvantages, in terms of this game. In pen and paper, that's a different case, but in this game, just broken.
saox
Member Posts: 106
Comments
My guess is, they iron out a bunch of the 2.x bugs and get 2.x and SOD published to the mobiles, then IWD gets updated to 2.2 or 2.3.
Soon.
into
"Soon."
and said "Fixed."
In this context, "Fixed" means changing someone else's post to reflect a statement that is more nearly accurate, funnier, or both.
Still, wouldn't mind seeing the shaman and those 2.0 changes brought to Icewind Dale. I've gotten so used to some things (like the outlines helping me see NPCs) that it's a little hard to play the game.
Some of us on these boards actually like to have fun.
Also, guess what? Shamans, like all classes, are fully open for more class kits. Here's a tutorial on creating kits: https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/34119/how-to-making-kit-mods-for-the-ee/p1
Having just gotten into endgame with my shaman, they also seem a little lacking in HLAs - as a summoning class they lack all of the top druid summons (great elemental and the planetars), which makes them the weakest summoners of any primary caster. From memory, IWD doesn't have HLAs, right? So the shaman spirits may well be viable right to the end.
I'm afraid I've become "that guy".
First of all dont be sarcastic please. I want a normal discussion and no bad blood here.
Second whats your definition of steamrolling? As an support class i think it would be fine. That you do not have to memorize druid spells is good. The shaman exclusive spells are also fine but the Spirit Dance is weak compared to other summons. You cant move. You get an armor class debuff. You cant controll your spirits. The spirits maybe decent in Bg and SoD but in BG2 and ToB there are just death fooder for Death Spells. The kit description describes the Shaman as somoene who calls spirits to aid them in battle. But in Late Game Saga i would prefer a Deva, Planetar, Summon Death, Higher Elemental Swarm 1000 times over them. Scale the spirits better with the level of the Shaman. For all gods sake stay at the dont move thing but allow the player to controll the spirits and give the Shaman unique HLAs. For now i prefer Fighter/Druid over them. But the shaman is much better compared to single class druids. In my opinion the development of the Blackguard and the monk kits were better than that of the shaman. The Shaman feels unfinished for me and i think with a few tweaks it would become very viable like the totem druid in IWD.
The question is, are you dead yet?
Yeah that works. But whats the point then? Thats the same strategy the Fighter/Druid uses (except the axes;D). But the Fighter/Druid gets Weapon Specialisation, Fighter HLAs, Heavy Armor and Dual Wielding (Belm for example). I think with the adjustments i mentioned the Shaman would be a very good and unique divine summoner and that is in terms of flavour also very welcome i think.
By streamrolling I mean I haven't had to reload yet. I mean that none of the encounters have been undouable, and I've actually had relatively little trouble. Many encounters that I've traditionally had trouble with have been trivially easy.
I have ranged with Gesen, become a 20 STR axe-weilding half-orc when that (rarely) goes wrong. I don't have to prepare spells beforehand. Given that the Druid spell selection mostly sucks, the 2-4 good spells are there as I need them. I can meatshield some pets before I rush my character in (don't bother trying to dance before level 6. Level 12 or so, you're actually pretty good off). People compare it to the Sorc, and I think that's a bad example. It is to the divine world what the Blade is to the magic. A little of this, a little of that. None of the idividual areas are going to much compete with specialists in that area - it can't out-shoot an Archer, out-cast a Cleric, out-summon a Druid, or out-tank a Fighter. But it can do all of those things to a more or lesser degree.
It's a strategy and synergy class. If it clicks with you how all of that works together, it's an amazing class. If you want point and click whacking, or insta-win Sorcing, you're going to be very dissapointed.
And let's be clear. It's not a Kensage, Berserker-Cleric, or Swashy-Fighter. If you expect THAT level of pwn, you are REALLY going to be dissapointed. But if you want a different class that has a ton of strengths, a different way to play, and is plenty powerful to kick the games ass, you won't be dissapointed.
Just don't get me started on the Blackguard. That's not good design. That class is utterly OP for this game. It has HUGE, HUGE advantages, and NO disadvantages, in terms of this game. In pen and paper, that's a different case, but in this game, just broken.