Kits for NPCs

pacek

I have my own ideas about what what kits I assign NPCs whn I play a modded game, and if enough people agree I think it should become canon. But first let me say in general I think there should be as little overlap between NPCs in BG1 and 2 and this has ultimately formed my choices. So anyway, here goes:
Faldorn: Avenger. Because she, you know, has to avenge the forest against the horrible miners.

Garrick: Skald.He's tall and blonde (Nordic traits). Wiser than he is smart (his strength is his songs, not his spells) His biography says he's not into fleecing people for their money (Skalds have a pickpocket penalty).

Kagain: Wizard Slayer.If the game has to have one, he's definitely it.

Kivan: Archer.A really cool kit, and he fits the bill perfectly. (That portrait is irresistable)

Safana: Swashbuckler.C'mon, she just escaped a pirate ship! Plus she's the most charismatic NPC you can get.

Shar-Teel: Barbarian.I feel could easily be a berserker, but we have one in BG2 with Korgan. Also her high DEX makes her a decent archer, when she's not busy kicking front-line ass.

Skie:Here I would like to propose something more major: Make her a transmuter, dualled to thief at 4th or 5th level. It makes her unique, and is within the rules. According to her biography also she has recently lapsed in her "studies" and is more taken to sneaking out at night.

Xan: Sorceror. The game could really use a sorceror, and he is our prime candidate, with high charisma and a cool sword.

Other thoughts: Montaron would make a good assassin except he seems more like the brawler. Ajantis could probably be a cavalier or undead hunter but I don't think either of these suit better than a regular paladin. Also we have two single-class clerics without a kit: Branwen and Viconia. I would love it if they were awarded a custom kit. Khalid is much handier as a fighter/mage too!

I realise much or indeed all of this is probably not gonna happen - what with the restrictions on original content - but thought it need to be said nonetheless.

-Pacek

Tanthalas

I think most people wouldn't like if the classes of these character were changed to kits. It'd be messing with canon (even though some of them seem to fit the kits well).

However, there is a mod out there (Level 1 NPC mod?) that lets you change the class and skills of an NPC when you first recruit them. This is a great feature that should be added to the game. It would let us use the recruitable NPCs and allow us to play around with more kits.

pacek

Tanthalas, first of all: new players wouldn't realise they had been changed. Second of all, old players who aren't familiar with mods may welcome the change. Third of all, players experienced with L1NPCs will have their own ideas, and this is the discussion I'm trying to promote.
Level 1NPCs is indeed a great mod, but certainly shouldn't be a standard feature, as it too much like metagaming.
My thoughts are only how to make the basic game more diverse and enjoyable, and I don't see how with 24(?) NPCs we can't hand out a few kits, when some of them seem begging to be handed out.

Conphantus

I agree with pacek. I don't think many players would object to adding kits to a few lucky NPC:s. I'm sure that if the devs had access to the kits during the development of BG1, they would at least have made safana a swashbuckler and kivan an archer anyway

HeroicSpur

I think the issue is not whether the players would object to giving kits to NPCs, but whether the powers that be would authorise the change.

Dazzu

Dynaheir would be a better sorcerer and I feel kitting would be better done as such for class changes.

Ajantis: Cavalier
Garrick: Jester
Montaron: Fighter/Assassin (Or Barbarian/Assassin if Barbarians gain multiclass options)
Safana: Assassin
Skie: Swashbuckler
Eldoth: Skald

Most of the rest I can agree on, but we need a Burglar kit for Alora.

On top of that, if there are no kitted characters in a game with kittability, it is going to feel very jarring!

MERLANCE

Other than making Faldorn an Avenger and Kivan an archer, none of the other characters are really fleshed out enough to justify making a change to their kits.

For example, Skie is just a rich girl that has the skills to sneak out of daddys house. I dont see her as specializing in backstabbing as an assassin, hunting people down and setting traps as a bounty hunter, or dazzling people with flashy swordsmanship as a swashbuckler. She just picks locks and sneaks past members of her household to get outside. If she was off doing murder for hire with Eldoth, then it would be a different story.

Dazzu

Khalid should be restored to a Fighter/Mage the way he was originally intended to be.

lansounet

Totally with Dazzu about Khalid.

Kivan, Faldorn, Shar-Teel, Safana and Xan respectively as Archer, Avenger, Berserker, Swashbuckeler and Sorcerer sounds good since kits are gonna be added to BG1 and only PC would make use of them, still not high priority in my opinion, except for Khalid who needs some love.

Dee

I agree about Khalid - and I think that Xan, as a corollary, should be a Kensai, as *he* was originally intended. Give him a reason to actually *use* that fancy sword.

Dazzu

Actually, Xan was originally intended to be a Githzerkai or however its spelled.

Dee

Right - a Githzerai Kensai. But I suspect a Gith NPC would cause problems in other ways (Githzerai are powerful). Kensai was Xan's class, though, and the only reason they changed it was because they realized they needed another spellcaster.

If they made Khalid a Fighter/Mage, they would be perfectly justified in making Xan a Kensai - or at least a warrior of some kind. His dialogue was recorded before they made him an enchanter, so continuity wouldn't suffer at all.

Kore

While it's fun to play around with these ideas making Khalid a fighter/mage seems a little bit too much of a stretch from vanilla for it to be widely accepted. He definitely needs some love though!

I think that the kits suggested for Kivan, Safana etc are all great ideas. Most of them, especially the thieves, need some love and kits are an obvious choice. Then again maybe some slight stat tweaks or innate abilities would give them the flavour they need.

Kore

"Skie: Here I would like to propose something more major: Make her a transmuter, dualled to thief at 4th or 5th level. It makes her unique, and is within the rules. According to her biography also she has recently lapsed in her "studies" and is more taken to sneaking out at night."

Skie is pretty dull at the moment I agree, but I can't help but feel that we have enough mage/thief combos at the moment. Maybe a Mage>Thief would be cool though, we don't technically have any of them and the ability to cast invisibility or mirror image would be pretty badass for a thief. Nice idea.

She could also be a cleric dualled to a thief. Cleric/thief is a cool combo and having Skie with the odd support spell while hurling away with a sling would be pretty cool Her bio mentions "learning ...history, and languages" and while probably more suited to a mage its not too much of a stretch for her to perhaps have had some clerical training.

Dazzu

Khalid already has F/M stats already. His first .cre file has an incorrect int of 12 instead of 15 and his original bio said his father had him trained by a sorcerer. If it were truly possible henceforth, Khalid would be awesome as a Fighter/Sorcerer if such a thing were possible.

Kore

Im not disputing that, but the Khalid we all know and love is a fighter, not a fighter mage.

EpitomyofShyness

I like the idea of adding kits to characters. The ones I'm especially fond of are;

Dynaheir - Sorcerer
Faldorn - Avenger
Garrick - Skald
Kivan - Archer
Safana - Swashbuckler
Shar-Teel - Barbarian or Berserker
Xan - Multiclass Kensai Mage would be awesome

Dazzu

Am I the only one who sees Garrick the Jester?

Dee

Yes, SIR...

pacek

@ HeroicSpur, I agree these changes probably aren't going to happen, doesn't stop me from hoping they do!

In fact, one could make the argument that it doesn't alter original developer intent to say, make Kivan an archer. After all archers are still rangers, aren't they? Making Khalid a Fighter/Mage is a different story, because it seems while he may have originally been one, it's pretty clear that a decision was made to make him a pure fighter.

I could be convinced that Dynaheir would make a better sorceror than Xan. I dunno? What does FR lore say about Rashemi Witches?

Dazzu

Dynaheir would be a better Sorc because the Evoker is a lousy Specialist, losing useful Ench spells like Sleep and most evocation spells can be replicated by wands.

geselle

I think many NPCs in Baldur's Gate 1 really fit into specific class kits, for example Shar-Teel really seems like a man-hating bloodthirsty berserker, while Ajantis would make a fine Cavalier; still other npcs just don't fit into class kits, foremost Kagain, but also Eldoth and Skie.

smeagolheart

Some changes are definitely needed, BG1 when it came out didn't have the possibility of kits so if they are going to redo the game in the TOB engine, kits are available and should be integrated. Here's my two cents.

Faldorn: Avenger.
Garrick: Jester
Kagain: Wizard Slayer.
Kivan: Archer.
Safana: Swashbuckler.
Shar-Teel: Barbarian.
Khalid: Fighter/Mage. He sucks as a fighter. Like @Trent Oster says in one of his tweets, he's the guy you are forced to take along with Jaheira that you just want to remove his equipment and sent him scouting alone for bad guys. I thought I was the only one that did that haha. Jaheira is a half elf multiclass, Khalid is another half elf. Hearing that Khalid was intended to be a Ftr/Mage is just icing on the case.
Xan: Sorceror.

I also feel Branwen and Virconia should get Battlepriest of Tempus and Acolyte of Shar or something. In other words kits should be created for them that could also round out the kit options for Clerics.

EpitomyofShyness

I wanted to say something about Branwen and VIconia, but since there aren't currently any kits in the games that suit them I stayed silent. I agree with you smeagolheart.

Dazzu

This is why clerics should have real kit options, and a god as an added option for further customization

That way, every Cleric has a god, even if no kit.

MERLANCE

The cleric kits are kind of weird alignment wise. Lawful Neutral Helm, Neutral Good Lathander, and Chaotic Evil Talos. Should have one for each alignment like in Icewind Dale 2.

Branwen and Viconia should definitely at least get their own special kits.

Same goes for BG2, dont see why Aerie gets the high level Holy Symbol of Lathander other than because they were too lazy to let her get one for Baervan.

Tanthalas

I'm almost positive that Viconia also gets the Holy Symbol of Talos. I'd like if they reworked this, but that's something to discuss when BGEE is out and work on BG2EE is underway.

Lunever

If BG:EE is using the TOB engine then the BG1 NPCs should be TOB-style too, including kits.

Winthal

I think giving all NPC's kits would feel a bit cluttered, but perhaps giving late-game characters kits to make them measure up more to the early ones? Also, I fully support Faldorn being turned into Avenger, it just totally fits, and it would make her suck a little less goodberry.

Lunever

Well, when installing mods that allow this, I selected kits for characters where this was fitting like Safana being a Swashbuckler, Faldorn an Avenger, but for some I selected true class.

elminster

I actually play Baldur's Gate Trilogy instead of Tutu to avoid these annoying kit selections. I don't think they should change any NPC kits.