Should all the equipment in BGEE & SoD be available in BG2EE?

Arius

My answer is yes. My reasoning is thus:

You bust your tail through BGEE that has TotSC in it and ALL that transfers to SoD. Then you bust your tail all the way thru SoD. Then you you transfer your party to BG2EE SoA/ToB. Irenicas has striped you of your gear.

But said gear could end up with vendors or outfitted on say Bodi's vampires or been a deal sweetener with the Drow. Maybe sold to the slavers in the slums district. Or the NPC group in the mansion in the temple district. Or the NPC group in the sewers in the temple district. The high end stuff could end up as items in the red and black dragons hoards.

I figure if the gear from SoD is used against the party then getting the gear back just makes BGEE that more challenging.

Thoughts?

Diomedes33

I agree. Its not like you come out of BGEE with +5 equipment or anything. I like that the stats from manuals Xfer, I just wish more did. Its a solid time investment in BGEE

Arius

If more Items transferred from BGEE and SoD I would think more folks would be tempted to buy it just for that. I figure making the argument the to the Dev's THIS could make you more money wouldn't fall on deaf ears

Aewyrven

Arius said:

If more Items transferred from BGEE and SoD I would think more folks would be tempted to buy it just for that. I figure making the argument the to the Dev's THIS could make you more money wouldn't fall on deaf ears

He's asking bgee tosc sod gear strip in bg2 soa not happening.

I say no.

The whole premises of soa is you got mugged, and 1) your best friend if good, 2) childhood friend if neutral, 3) some a-hole stole and tortured the only friend who ever put up with your crap in candle keep. .. just got jacked by some uppity elf who has tortured and imprisoned you to.... spoiler... your life... so to speak. ..

Gear loss is acceptable since you got mauled and are out for revenge/justice/trying to figure out who rupeed you.... plus you wake up in a cage.... after being tortured... ur stuffs sold so whoever did it can pay for this crazy underground lair.... Dryads ain't cheap bro.

Sharguild

Personally, I say no.
As mentioned by Aewyrven, you got drugged, mugged and fugged. So sad, too bad, sucks to be you etc....

But also, I appreciate the opportunity for acquiring new gear with a vengeance.
Realistically, you are not exactly escaping Chateau Irenicus in rags with a club.
Throughout the game you even come across some of your gear (Spider's Bane would have been nice!, heh).

I think also, your party would have been a bit too powerful for the storyline if you proceeded fully equipped.
With the way the story is written, you have significant challenges ahead and need to "adventure" in order to meet those challenges.
I think it would have been a much shorter game had you entered it fully equipped.
I like longer games.

m2c

Gozeta

I'd like to keep all my containers. So, in short yes.

Aewyrven

Gozeta said:

I'd like to keep all my containers. So, in short yes.

U get a scroll and gem off the hop. Full group of 9s can handle keep for ammo belt and u just have to accept the quest to get the potion bag....

What, arnt u loading your mage up with the scrolls you get anyways? :P

Edit: And you don't get a mage till the end of Mae'var anyways unless you want Aerie or nalia and they arnt slinging anything you can bring from bg1 early on that they don't already have anyways. ...

Gozeta

@aewyrven
I just want it because they have my name on them. ^.^ 'Do not touch. Property of Gozeta'.

magisensei

It would be nice but also making the game a bit too easy to start and a bit unrealistic for the story, after all its hard to imagine that Jon Irenicus would keep all your stuff and not hand it out or really care about it after choosing what he wanted to keep - the rest I imagined would be sold, stolen by his henchmen or melted down for magical ingredients or something.

I am slightly annoyed to lose it all - since my team spent so much blood and tears getting it all- (do you even remember how much gold we lost because we were captured), but that's what happens if you are captured and tortured in a land so far away from BG, you lose everything and start over.

I wished we had a chance of going home to BG but sadly we can't; ah but its nice to dream if we could - as I stashed a ton of stuff at Kagain's shop which I imagine he has now found and has added to his store inventory. Oh well......

The fact that you can even battle your way out of the dungeon is a show to your spirit and desire to live and get a little pay back for being magically tortured for some ungodly reason by a mad mage, it makes you realize what Neera had to go through when she was being hunted by the Thays.

So I say, "No" your stuff is gone - live and learn and next time find a bank to stash all your gold.

Woolie_Wool

I think the notable SoD pieces should be scattered across BG2 for you to find again, much like the BG1 stuff--most of the BG1 equipment worth keeping can be found again if you search thoroughly. Caelar's +3 sword would make an excellent early-game BG2 sword until the really awesome stuff starts rolling in after chapter 4.

Tenrecc

Hmm, I could see them doing this for a nice immersion effect. Finding my beloved The World's Edge in some shady thief store, or the Khazgarath(?) items in Bodhis dungeon would fuel my hatred for Irenicus a bit more, and it'd be a bit more realistic than everything just disappearing from the face of the earth.

Don't really see what items the Dragons could be hoarding though. Currently they are sitting on Carsomyr, and the Crom Faeyr scrolls, bascally the two most powerful weapons in the game, who are acquirable early on. I don't see anyone going "Hell yeah I got Carsomyr! And look, a +2 Long sword with a bonus frost damage!"

But Bodhi and the Drows could definitely hold some of your items, as well as being spread out in the black market. If only for making it more realistic and relatable.

chilvence

I actually found it pretty hard to care that SoD was throwing stacks of super cool items at me, knowing full well that they would all be gone just as soon as the transition to BG2 happened. As it became clear that the end was drawing near, I stopped bothering to even examine them. Oh look, another useless pile of +3 arrows, meh. Which makes sense, you can't really develop a sense of attachment to anything if you know it is going to be taken away from you.

The annoying thing about it is that the choice to strip all of your items was only made for design reasons, and the 'capture' plot was created around that fact - not the other way around. Everyone hated that because half of the effort that goes into personalising your characters goes into what equipment you pick for them, sort of how the things people own and love say a lot about their personality. So even if there is a perfectly legitimate explanation for what is happening, it still sucked from a gameplay perspective, it's supposed to be a bit of fun after all. They didn't make the same mistake in ToB, and they at least went at it with a sense of humour in SoD, the player and the designer both know you are going to lose it all so they turn it into a tragicomic side plot. They made me chuckle several times, the barsterds

Nevermind all that though. Everyone has played BG1 and BG2 at least 400 times each. It would be nice to be able play it _just once_ without losing all your stuff, who cares what the explanation is. Maybe in incredible flash of serendipity I had it all shipped to Amn because I was planning to go on holiday there anyway. Maybe I stashed it all in Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion. Maybe I have a bag of holding hidden away where the sun doesn't shine. Who gives a crap, give me my stuff.

Arius

I just figured it made sense for BG1 ToS & SoD items to be scattered throughout SoA and at the same time buff up some opposition as they could have said gear.

It's not like I am saying any of said gear should laying on tables in the beginning duengeon. I am saying the stuff should be scattered to 4 winds so to speak.

magisensei

Here is a thought - I played a kensai in my last run through and haven't imported to SoD or BG2 as of yet; so my equipment really is only okay on my kensai - the only thing of real value that she has is the cloak of balduran; its the NPCs that are fully decked out - Imoen and Neera both of archmagi robes and rings of wizardry and a ton of wands and a case full of useful scrolls - and a boot of speed and Viconia has a holy ring and gauntlets of ogre strength -and I can understand Imoen not having her stuff but did Neera, Rassad, Dorn and Viconia sell all the stuff I equipped them with? Especially Neera, the archmagi robes cost a ton of gold to get and her ring of wizardry should still be her unless in a fit of wild magic all her stuffed disappeared (like all your gold if you get a really bad roll on the surge table).

As a kensai, losing all my swords is only slightly bothersome but as there are a ton of swords to be had in BG so not too worried - its the NPCs that were fully equipped and decked out that really annoys me.

Arius

I know, right! @ magisensei

My dwarf fighter thief had some Dwarf specific SoD items on him I wanted to use. The Helm of Dumathoin & Nimble fingered gloves. Plus he had theif equipment like the belt of the cunning rogue, side step slippers & sore feet boots that he switched back and forth from

I really like the The Guardian Devil Helmet and the Helm of Unwavering Purpose. Both +1 AC helms.

Stalker Gauntlets <---really wanted to try those out on Valgyr as well as dual wielding Crimson Dawn and Celestial Fury would have been cool.

chilvence

Arius said:

I just figured it made sense for BG1 ToS & SoD items to be scattered throughout SoA and at the same time buff up some opposition as they could have said gear.

It's not like I am saying any of said gear should laying on tables in the beginning duengeon. I am saying the stuff should be scattered to 4 winds so to speak.

I don't know, I think that actually doesn't make any sense at all, for stuff to conveniently appear scattered around Amn after being conveniently taken away from you. If your stuff was scattered to the four winds, then Toril is much bigger than the tiny slice of it that appears in the BG saga, I wouldn't expect to see anything ever again.

I'd find it much more plausible to find it dumped in a neglected pile in Irenicus' sewer dungeon, given how little use he has for any of it. His duergar mercenaries could have found use for it I suppose. I actually think it would be quite funny, if the opposition you face in the dungeon uses the best of your items against you. "What the hell... that's MY sword! You robbing bastard!"

Like I said, there's no reason to go along with the story just because that is how Bioware decided to play it. They had a gigantic new game, that simply wouldn't have been half as challenging if you started it with a million gold pieces and an arsenal of doom, so they did what they did as a design choice. It wouldn't affect the greater storyline in any way whatsoever if you didn't lose your stuff. In fact it would be nice to just carry on playing the game the same as you finished in BG1, without having to feel obliged to re-equip your team.

Lord_Tansheron

chilvence said:

I don't know, I think that actually doesn't make any sense at all, for stuff to conveniently appear scattered around Amn after being conveniently taken away from you. If your stuff was scattered to the four winds, then Toril is much bigger than the tiny slice of it that appears in the BG saga, I wouldn't expect to see anything ever again.

This would make sense if more time had passed. Given that it's only been a few weeks at most (possibly as little as a couple of days only), chances are that most items would not have gotten very far. Amn is a large city, and consequently it's also more likely for things sold there to end up in the hands of people that live in the area, rather than be carried away (as it would be the case at, say, some remote inn or waystation).

For me, it always made the most sense that Irenicus simply liquidated all your assets one way or another. Either he gave them to some lackey to sell, or he gave it to his mercenaries as payment, who then went and sold it in the city.

Arius

Lord_Tansheron said:

chilvence said:

I don't know, I think that actually doesn't make any sense at all, for stuff to conveniently appear scattered around Amn after being conveniently taken away from you. If your stuff was scattered to the four winds, then Toril is much bigger than the tiny slice of it that appears in the BG saga, I wouldn't expect to see anything ever again.

This would make sense if more time had passed. Given that it's only been a few weeks at most (possibly as little as a couple of days only), chances are that most items would not have gotten very far. Amn is a large city, and consequently it's also more likely for things sold there to end up in the hands of people that live in the area, rather than be carried away (as it would be the case at, say, some remote inn or waystation).

For me, it always made the most sense that Irenicus simply liquidated all your assets one way or another. Either he gave them to some lackey to sell, or he gave it to his mercenaries as payment, who then went and sold it in the city.

In that vein all the lil huckster venders in all the city zones could have that stuff. Or all of it could be in the Red Wizards of thay lil alcove in Waukeen's Promenade. Which would sort of force yoy to do the Nalia wild mage quest line to get in there.

Lord_Tansheron

Arius said:

In that vein all the lil huckster venders in all the city zones could have that stuff. Or all of it could be in the Red Wizards of thay lil alcove in Waukeen's Promenade. Which would sort of force yoy to do the Nalia wild mage quest line to get in there.

That, but also the people who then bought it from those vendors.

Irenicus' mercenaries get paid with your loot. -> They go to the city and sell it so they can buy things they ACTUALLY need (like wenches and ale) -> The merchants they sold the loot to then re-sell it to the next best adventurer, thug, or krombopulos michael that comes to their shop -> You later encounter said mooks and liberate your precious pieces of power.

chilvence

Hmm. I dunno. Everyone is happy to imagine far fetched scenarios that would enable you to regain your all of your loot from bg1 (mine are the best, btw ;P ) . You all want to have the game your way while at the same time not arguing with the original game design. No one wants to consider the idea that it wouldn't really make any difference if you awoke fully clothed in Irenicus' dungeon, or that Bioware could have made a wrong design choice in any way.

I have had many things stolen from me in real life. Much as I'd like to imagine that I might randomly encounter them again one day... I am not living in a delusional fantasy. If all of your things really _are_ stolen from you at the end of BG1, then I think it would be a crappy game design move to allow you to find them in various places, because the likelihood of that actually happening in real life is infinitesimally small. Once someone has taken something you own, you have about as much chance of seeing it again as you do of growing an extra arm.

That's why the only argument I have left is that there is really no concrete reason that you have to have all of your stuff taken away from you in BG2. You are imprisoned _twice_ in BG1 and it doesn't pull the same trick. It doesn't make any sense realistically, but they don't take away all of your equipment for the simple reason that you spent half of the game finding it. So you get imprisoned in the Flaming Fist headquarters and in Candlekeep without losing all of your equipment, and think nothing of it. Yet you get imprisoned by Irenicus, and conveniently lose and then find all of those unique items in the hands of others?

Meh. One way or the other, please.

dunbar

Given that SoA was published as stand alone game it wouldn't make sense for your starting characters to be better equipped if you had played through BG1 first - some people only play SoA.

However the OP was suggesting that your BG1 gear could be 'found' somewhere or somehow in various places around SoA. This has been suggested before (more than once, if memory serves) and as I recall the conclusions were along the lines of a) it would be too complicated to retro fit and b) you eventually find better items anyway.

On a personal note, I enjoy the experience of starting all over again and having to build myself up from nothing.

Arius

dunbar said:

Given that SoA was published as stand alone game it wouldn't make sense for your starting characters to be better equipped if you had played through BG1 first - some people only play SoA.

However the OP was suggesting that your BG1 gear could be 'found' somewhere or somehow in various places around SoA. This has been suggested before (more than once, if memory serves) and as I recall the conclusions were along the lines of a) it would be too complicated to retro fit and b) you eventually find better items anyway.

On a personal note, I enjoy the experience of starting all over again and having to build myself up from nothing.

Actually it wouldn't be complicated as there have been previous. There are Items that are in BG1EE ToSC that NOW are in BGEE IE plate mail +3. There's The icewind dale items vender in the in the copper coronet and the Torment vender in the Adventurer's Mart. And they have actually added some stuff from SoD like the Helm of Dumathoin. So be it being already there it wasn't to complicated.

And it's not so much that the SoD and BG items are weaker its thats pairing them with SoA and ToB items could be very interesting and give you more options to equip your characters in different ways. NPC wise and player made party wise.

Lord_Tansheron

SoD items aren't necessarily weaker. Archer's Eyes is the best ranged damage amulet even in ToB.

jackjack

Available scattered throughout BG2, yes. Sitting in the equipment room in Chateau Irenicus, not so much. Not only does it make zero sense, it would turn the first portion of the game into a cakewalk.

Arius

Lord_Tansheron said:

SoD items aren't necessarily weaker. Archer's Eyes is the best ranged damage amulet even in ToB.

Agreed, But I was peaking as whole. But there are certainly notable exceptions especially on the equipement side vs the weapon side.

Arius

jackjack said:

Available scattered throughout BG2, yes. Sitting in the equipment room in Chateau Irenicus, not so much. Not only does it make zero sense, it would turn the first portion of the game into a cakewalk.

agreed. That's why I said up thread to equip some of the NPC groups with said gear to make them more of a challenge.