Slayer form tweaks. [BG2EE]
O_Bruce
Member Posts: 2,790
The topic is a simillar to the one I made on Reddit. I decided to write more, however.
That's something that always made me wonder. The Slayer is an avatar of Bhaal, avatar of murder. "Creature from death and the darkest shadow" as the Bodhi claims. Yet, after Shadows of Amn (and even throught it) this form becomes.... just useless most of the time (unless one is using it for, let's say, role-playing purposes, like me). Why?
-First of all, warriors are often more powerfull (HP, Thac0, AC) in normal form, than in Slayer form. And still, there is a risk of using transformation, therefore making it even more useless.
- Second, Slayer's HP are caped at 100. This can be plenty in SoA, assuming that you are not re-rolling your hitpoints per every level up, but it changes in To
- Thrid, transformation lasts quite short before PC is starting to recieve damage, which eventually leads to PC's death. The risk becomes to hight to balance the gain.
In my opinion, Slayer form should improve over time, as PC is gaining experience (first improvement from 3 milion exp points, then 4,5 milion, then 6 milion). Slayer is quite strong in middle game, but later it's not. And it is supposed to be scary, powerfull Avatar of Murder.
- Cap of 100 HP should be removed. Instead, it should be like +50 HP to base PC HP + Slayer's constitution bonuses. (Ex. warrior has base 90 hp + constitution. When transformin into slayer, it should be 140 hp + constitution).
- Slayer's base stats (+HP, Saving throws, Thac0, AC, Magic resistance, claws damage) should rise from certain experience caps (3 mln, 4.5 mln, 6 mln). I'm not sure of the exact ammount those should improve. That's something to discuss.
- In addition, I suggest that wrath test in hell would result in extending the time of staying in Slayer form for PC, as Sarevok taunts you to use the form, rather than givin just +2 to strength (of course, I'm talking about an evil path).
- I support virtue mod all the way and hope it (or it's variation) will be implemented into Enhanced Editon. Therefore I suggest that changing into Slayers would result into loss of virtue, than reputation (unless someone innocent will seen you transform - doing so in the center of the city would result into reputation drop as well).
That's basically all I wanted to say. If I recall something more, I'll probably edit the post.
That's something that always made me wonder. The Slayer is an avatar of Bhaal, avatar of murder. "Creature from death and the darkest shadow" as the Bodhi claims. Yet, after Shadows of Amn (and even throught it) this form becomes.... just useless most of the time (unless one is using it for, let's say, role-playing purposes, like me). Why?
-First of all, warriors are often more powerfull (HP, Thac0, AC) in normal form, than in Slayer form. And still, there is a risk of using transformation, therefore making it even more useless.
- Second, Slayer's HP are caped at 100. This can be plenty in SoA, assuming that you are not re-rolling your hitpoints per every level up, but it changes in To
- Thrid, transformation lasts quite short before PC is starting to recieve damage, which eventually leads to PC's death. The risk becomes to hight to balance the gain.
In my opinion, Slayer form should improve over time, as PC is gaining experience (first improvement from 3 milion exp points, then 4,5 milion, then 6 milion). Slayer is quite strong in middle game, but later it's not. And it is supposed to be scary, powerfull Avatar of Murder.
- Cap of 100 HP should be removed. Instead, it should be like +50 HP to base PC HP + Slayer's constitution bonuses. (Ex. warrior has base 90 hp + constitution. When transformin into slayer, it should be 140 hp + constitution).
- Slayer's base stats (+HP, Saving throws, Thac0, AC, Magic resistance, claws damage) should rise from certain experience caps (3 mln, 4.5 mln, 6 mln). I'm not sure of the exact ammount those should improve. That's something to discuss.
- In addition, I suggest that wrath test in hell would result in extending the time of staying in Slayer form for PC, as Sarevok taunts you to use the form, rather than givin just +2 to strength (of course, I'm talking about an evil path).
- I support virtue mod all the way and hope it (or it's variation) will be implemented into Enhanced Editon. Therefore I suggest that changing into Slayers would result into loss of virtue, than reputation (unless someone innocent will seen you transform - doing so in the center of the city would result into reputation drop as well).
That's basically all I wanted to say. If I recall something more, I'll probably edit the post.
4
Comments
@ZelgadisGW actually the slayer form is kinda useful, i remember the first time i played the game on the hardest difficulty and i was fighting the ravanger ( 5th trial after balthazar) i was using the slayer form the whole battle and that was the only way i could win back in the day, i think the real thing about the slayer form is, is usefulness, i think thats what you are more getting at, but at the same time, if its waay too usefull than people would just use nothing but the slayer all the time, unless of coarse they would add some harsh penalty ( i guess that is what the HP loss is for) i guess its one of those things where its needs to be more usefull but no so over powered that, that is the only thing the player will use know what i mean?
Oh, I've just got an additional idea. Chance for character to go berserk when in Slayer form seems right.
Bhaal rarely appeared in avatar form, but when he did in urban settings he
typically assumed a form known as the Slayer. The Slayer looked like a
human male corpse with a feral face, ivory-white skin, and deep lacerations
that endlessly wept black ichor that vanished before it struck anything.
The Slayer could levitate at will and walk on air. His
movements were always silent, and his voice soft, menacing, and cold. In
battle, the Slayer wielded one of the infinite number of bone daggers hidden
on his person or that he could conjure out of thin air. Body parts
wounded by these wielded daggers would wither. If the wounded area were
a head or torso, it would shrivel and the victim would suffer additional
damage above the given bone dagger damage; if a limb, it would shrivel
and become unusable.
The Slayer could also animate up to six bone daggers at will at to each strike
twice a round at magical weapons for purposes of what they could attack
and doing chilling damage every successful strike. These daggers would then
wink out of existence as the Slayer willed. The body of anyone slain by
one of these animated daggers could, if the Slayer desired, become a zombie
under his command or be made to burst apart, all its bones shattering and
joining any bone daggers the Lord of Murder had already animated to become
a blade barrier of bone shards. Such a bone-shard blade barrier inflicted
massive damage upon those who tried to pass it and lasted as long as the
Slayer willed (in other words, it could be left as a permanent feature). These
bone-shard blade barriers filled any volume of space from 5 cubic feet to 70
cubic feet in any shape. If the Slayer created a permanent bone-shard blade
barrier, the spirit of the slain being remained in the affected area as part of
the animating force affecting the bones. The Slayer could also awaken an
Urge to Slay or cast Attraction (or its reverse) at will.
__________
A fair bit different from the in-game version.
Having the slayer level up during the adventure doesn't seem like a bad idea. He already has max strength, so adding in more attacks per round seems like a viable combat option to increase damage (aside from lowering Thac0).
I also like the idea of the Slayer-Helltrial having an impact on your Slayer form, either increasing the duration before the damage kicks in or lessening the penalties. Seems a bit more appropriate than a random stat increase.
Possibility for ToB; when you do the Ravager trial and you respond in an evil manner (or are of evil alignment), have that replace your Slayer form, with all associated bonusses. You are, after all, the most powerful Bhaalspawn in the world at that point (close to the only one), changing into a massive engine of destruction would be nice (even if it's just for one fight).
thanks for the P&P Slayer info. Now I find myself wanting a P&P Slayer mod soooo badly. My P&P OCD is getting worse by the day.
I'm also happy that at least some people considering Slayer tweaks a good idea. About damage improvement, I had meant his "claw weapon" damage improvement (example, 2k6 +5 instead of 1k6 +5 and such. Thought I have no idea of Slayer's claw weapon real damage).
About hell trials, I've said that it would decrease drawbacks from transformation, for example, by expending time PC could last in this form. And that's OK. Aside from that, there is other problems regarding Slayers, just like I've and @AndreaColombo said - Slayer form is just weak in Throne of Bhaal, at least in my opinion.
PS. Slayer's form still recieves bonuses to Thac0, AC if player is Kensai or Swash. Should it be fixed, maybe?
And sure, they are not that useful at that part of the game, a vampiric touch, cure liht wounds still could come very handy in certain situations. If I could have been able to choose, I would have liked to keep the spells instead of the Slayer form, which is, as I agree with @ZelgadisGW, pretty useless, not to mention the price you pay for turning. If you wanted to keep a decent reputation, or as an evil char, a reputation high enough so that guards won't attack you, you really couldnt use it more than a couple of times throuh the game. (I'm not saying that the penilty should be so low, that you could spam it...)
1st: -2
2nd: -1
3rd: -1
4th: -1
5th and after: 0
And if you kill a inocent you will lose a lot of it, so why lose just for transform.