Final Battle (obvious spoilers)

DrHappyAngry

I'm on my second playthrough, and just can't get past the final battle this time. So, I'm playing evil, and I feel obligated to kill Caelar, and it's making this an even worse fight. Didn't really have problems my first time with a good Fighter 7 -> Thief that sided with Caelar, but they are just tearing me apart this time.

Current party.
Dragon Disciple
Dorn
Viconia
Safana
Edwin
Voghlin

So before I get off the elevator, I have haste, bless, resist fear and chant up. Everyone except my dragon disciple chugs a potion of fire resistance on the first round. The only +3 weapons I've got are a hammer and a quarter staff, so my Dragon Disciple casts enchant weapon on Dorn (Safana does have some +3 arrows too). I spam summons with the ankheg amulet, miconid sack thingy and wand of summons, but they go down too fast to even work as meat shields. At best they buy me a round, most of the time it just serves as a trigger for Belhifet to fireball or do his uber flame spell on everyone.

I didn't really plan this, since I didn't have much trouble my first time through. So, I've only got one lower resistance scroll and 2 greater restorations. Guess I could reload to an earlier save, and have Edwin memorize a bunch of lower resistance, but don't know if that'll help much, since it seems like it either wears off or gets dispelled when he teleports away. My mages seem pretty useless the whole fight, and Dorn and Viconia get torn apart. It seems like Caelar is mildly susceptible to Acid arrow, but it barely does any damage, and nothing else seems to do anything to either of them. Any time I feel like I'm making the tiniest bit of progress Caelar or Belhifet just teleport away and are near full health again when they come back, and full health a round or 2 later.

I know I could just play nice with Caelar and recruit her to help, but what's the fun in that? Plus I want to go the route I didn't take last time.

fantasma

Not tried it myself, but seeing at your party composition, I wonder if you tried spamming web spells with your dragon disciple, edwin, voghlin while dooming and greater malisioning, and then summon spiders and have them hasted? I'm not sure if the demon or Caelar is immune to Web though.

kensai

Your mages are not optimised and that's why you lose. More lower resistance spells, maybe even in contingences (do you have robe from zadroth?)
Viconia should always run or she will be killed and use Wand of Heavens.
BTW raged Minsc kills devils more easily.
Safana should shoot not arrows +3 but arrows of antimagic or acid under enchant weapon buff of course.
Also Web spam in this fight is the key to win.

DrHappyAngry

I wouldn't say my mages aren't optimized, I just didn't have lower resistance on my DD. I'll load up an earlier save, so I can have Edwin memorize a few copies of it. Guess I have to do that annoying elevator ride again. I was planning on getting lower resistance for my DD, just didn't think I'd need it until I started fighting dragons and liches in BG2, especially since I had such an easier time with this fight the first time through. Fighting against Caelar definitely makes this much harder.

I'll give web and wand of heavens a shot, hadn't thought they'd be any use. Web might work, since Dorn's got the spider's bane. I think I might be able to use an oracle scroll to snag Caelar when she tries to run away. Is there anything that Caelar's vulnerable to?

kensai

DrHappyAngry said:

I'll give web and wand of heavens a shot, hadn't thought they'd be any use. Web might work, since Dorn's got the spider's bane. I think I might be able to use an oracle scroll to snag Caelar when she tries to run away. Is there anything that Caelar's vulnerable to?

Not only sword, Free action spell\potion\ring and boots of Web immunity also helps.
wand of heavens for belhifet servants only (i played lob don't know if he had them on other difficulty)
Caelar has 50 magic\cold, 90 fire but no lightning and acid resistances

Jarrakul

I haven't tried siding against Caelar, but from what I can see, it looks like you've got too many people in melee range. Don't stay in melee range with more than maybe one character, and try to make sure that character is fire resistant. Then just chip away at them with arrows, and try not to let up on either of them when they teleport away.

Tenrecc

Well, you could just have Caelar killed during the initial conversation and face Belhifet alone, I'm pretty sure that falls under the "evil" category.

DrHappyAngry

kensai said:

Not only sword, Free action spell\potion\ring and boots of Web immunity also helps.
wand of heavens for belhifet servants only (i played lob don't know if he had them on other difficulty)
Caelar has 50 magic\cold, 90 fire but no lightning and acid resistances

Good call, forgot I had the ring, and probably have some potions. Damn, now I wish I had taken lightning bolt for a 3rd level spell. At least Edwin has it, and I have some scrolls I think.

The only people I let in melee range were Dorn and Viconia. Viconia's got that monstrous AC, +3 hammer and the 18/00 strength gaunlets, so she's actually viable in melee, and was surviving longer than Dorn at the front line sometimes. I'll try keeping her back with the wand, next time, though. Maybe wade in once she takes care of the henchmen. My party's definitely weak in the warrior department, just weren't any options that I felt fit for evil.

Tenrecc said:

Well, you could just have Caelar killed during the initial conversation and face Belhifet alone, I'm pretty sure that falls under the "evil" category.

Really, thought it was join or fight her? At this point, I'm determined to take her down myself. I think with oracle and web, I might be able to separate the 2 of them long enough to finish one off and then focus on the other.

Juris

Fighting Caelar and Belhifet together would be an incredibly hard fight. Even if I was evil I'd still be able to justify 'forgiving' Caelar to have her join you so I wouldn't have to fight both of them together. After the battle she could hook up with Dorn and become a friendly blackguard

DrHappyAngry

GAH! I killed Belhifet and was working Caelar down and my charname derped right in the web spell without me telling them to. Caelar immediately went over beat down my dragon disciple. Of course I hadn't drunk a potion of free action, since that character wasn't running around in the webs, and I was using haste to get away from enemies.

It's definitely Caelar that's giving me the most trouble, she's way tougher than Belhifet. Even after hitting with her with lower resistance 3 times, greater mailison and doom, she still has magic resistance left and rarely gets caught in the web.

Gotta keep trying.

DrHappyAngry

And had one where I took down Caelan but, Belhifet wouldn't fail his saving roll a second time and just kept spamming summons.

Man Caelan is the most mary sue cheap BS since Drizzt. I have to kill her now because of it.

DrHappyAngry

Well, good thing I had to stay up late tonight to push some changes to akamai. Literally push the button and wait an hour before I can make sure everything's working right.

Finally, I got lucky and managed to take down Belhefit quickly after he failed his web save a couple times and I was able to beat him down before he got improved invisibility up. This fight was way harder than it needed to be since I only had Dorn for a warrior, and Viconia pulling double duty.



With Belhefit out of the way, I could focus on Caelar. Dorn, Viconia and Safana beat on her, while me Edwin and Voghlin spammed acid arrows until she went down. Man she's got some tough magic resistance, even with 2 remove resistance spells, doom and greater mailison, she still wouldn't get caught in the web.

Astyam

Why can not cause damage ....?
Could you tell me what weapons cause damage in it and what minimal spells are mandatory for qu I can reach him?

Obs .: Caelar is fighting beside me, I will be this problem?

Daeros_Trollkiller

Jarrakul said:

I haven't tried siding against Caelar, but from what I can see, it looks like you've got too many people in melee range. Don't stay in melee range with more than maybe one character, and try to make sure that character is fire resistant. Then just chip away at them with arrows, and try not to let up on either of them when they teleport away.

This is pretty much what I did. My PC Blackguard straight up tanked him and I had corwin shooting him with +3 arrows and neera blasting him with a wand of frost. Rest of the party was supporting and dealing with Caelar. This was my first playthrough, and I didn't even know you could side with her since I was playing Evil, lol.

Durlag's goblet goes a long way in this fight. Especially with a Blackguard tanking it, since they're naturally immune to fear.

Daeros_Trollkiller

Astyam said:

Why can not cause damage ....?
Could you tell me what weapons cause damage in it and what minimal spells are mandatory for qu I can reach him?

Obs .: Caelar is fighting beside me, I will be this problem?

Your weapons need to be +3 or better to hit him. An enchant weapon spell will work. My Blackguard was dual wielding acid tongue and burning earth. It was a long fight, but a fun one.

brunardo

I found heavier melee focus parties do better as definetly need some tanks for this fight