DEXTERITY AND CONSTITUTION OVER STRENGTH. (It's obivious right?)
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Member Posts: 669
Hear me out.
Reading that recent thread / poll on DEX Vs CON got me thinking...I have always cared more about CON than the other stats, with DEX being a close second. So...no matter what my class, I'm maxing out those both to whatever I need them to be (it's hard to justify over 16 CON depending on the build), and after making sure my CHA, WIS and INT are up to par for what I need...strength is last on the list. Up to a point. (Why?) Well...there's potions, belts, weapons, spells...so many ways to boost it. Even RAGE! A high strength is great, but it's easy to get when you need it, whereas it's harder to less frequent to be able to boost CON or DEX. But what do you think?
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I don't know why some people feel guilty about lowering the INT stat to 4. It's just a number. My guy is the smartest guy in the world as far as I'm concerned. I have the options to play him that way if I want. I've never really been a person to assign much stock to numbers having any meaning, as it's always felt really arbitrary to me. Gimme stats that actually affect my gameplay. That's what I want.
If it worked like Planescape: Torment, where higher mental stats significantly changed the outcome of dialogue, then I'd worry about it. But as is, even Charisma barely influences it.
I think the computer RPG with the best "every stat matters and also shapes how you RP" is easily Fallout 1 and 2. S.P.E.C.I.A.L. is pretty awesome. Every last little thing matters in both how it affects battle AND how it affects dialogue.
Someone with a 4 intelligence wouldn't even be able to speak, you would be able to pantomime some things and grunt, but actually talking would be out of the question.
Someone with a 4 cha would be shunned and hated, there are some people who would attack you upon meeting you because your very presence is offending to them. The DM would advice the other players how much they strongly hate your character and tell them to find a reason to actually keep you around. He would also constantly remind you that you must play your character as a unattractive douche who would rather drop his pants and piss in someone mouth then have a conversation with them.
From a power-gaming perspective, none of the other stats actually matter much unless you're playing hardcore or heavily into role-playing. INT and WIS aren't even that essential for casters. CHA you never really need higher than 14 (Friends, Ring of Human Influence), so that's out too. It's a shame these stats don't matter more (that is an argument spread across many threads, in many forums, over many years).
I'm amazed that ppl will set intelligence at 4. Not because it's implausible and offends me in any way, but because all it takes to get an 18/18/18/10/10/10 stat spread is about 3 minutes of rolling.
The rest of the stats aren't entirely useless though either. Wisdom is very important for divine spellcasters (in particular clerics and druids), because it determines their spellslots per day for each spell level. It's not that important for other classes, although the +4 to saving throw vs. spells and the various spell immunities come handy for all.
As for intelligence, mages very much need it because it determines the max spell level they can cast spells from as well as the number of spells they can learn from each spell level (playing a mage I usually want my intelligence to be at least 19 so I can learn all spells), and it also affects the scroll learning chance (if you're playing on hardcore difficulty or harder). For others intelligence doesn't play a very big role, but it will still provide the illusion immunity at scores above 18.
And the number one reason you do not want to roll a warrior with 4 intelligence is: illithids. If any you ever wondered why illithids one-hit your tank - that's why. From a powergaming perspective you'll want your intelligence to be either 6, 11, or 16 so you may withstand 1, 2, or 3 hits from a normal mind flayer. More powerful mind flayers will kill you in less hits.
WIS does not effect saving throws. It was in the game manual and all, but never implemented in either BG1 or BG2.
At max, Sorcerers get by with only knowing six spells per level -- which is the same as a non-specialst Mage with 9 INT. (Granted, the bonuses get pretty big once you hit 17 or 18 INT, and 19 gives you an unlimited spellbook.)
You're thinking of 3rd edition rules and the Neverwinter Nights games - there, you do need a 19 intelligence to cast a 9th level spell. A sorcerer would need 19 charisma to cast a 9th level spell. Really, that makes more sense. However, it just doesn't exist in the Baldur's Gate games.
Saving throw bonuses for high wisdom are not implemented in Baldur's Gate, either, despite what the original printed manual said. Wisdom gives only extra priest spell slots, a small lore bonus, and better Wish tables from the Wish spell genie. A BG cleric with low wisdom can do just fine.
For instance, a Ranger gets a STR/DEX/CON/WIS spread of at least 13/13/14/14. He does not have to roll for it. Similarly the Paladin gets a CHA of 17 without having to roll for it. These aren't requirements but gifts. To roll a 18/18/18/10/10/10 fighter might take 3 minutes (an 84). In the same time, you can easily roll a ranger that is a 87-90 or even higher. Further, since many of the stats required for Rangers are stats you want to develop anyway (like STR/DEX/CON), you'll never want to dump them anyway. So I really believe this isn't a problem for the warrior classes.
@Adul: I fully acknowledge the benefits of WIS in PnP. I still don't think it's that great even if you are a caster in BG. It's supposed to determine your max spell level and determine your resistance to mind-affecting magic, but it does neither. Similarly, INT does not do what it should. Were these stats better implemented in BG, you'd be 100% right.
I must say the illithid is the most overrated opponent in the game. All you need to do is buff your characters with the 5th level cleric spell Chaotic Commands. If you're worried about Intelligence being drained, don't melee the mind flayer! Use missile attacks, kiting, and summonings.
@Brude: Nice avatar, what is it?
A high minimum only helps your overall roll if that minimum is also a stat you want with that class (ranger constitution, for example.) You don't have any dump stats as a paladin except intelligence. It's the hardest class to get a min/max roll on.
Also, interestingly enough, in the PHB of 2nd ed, it states that a fighter with 16 strength or higher gets a 10% bonus to experience. I think it is the same with respect to other classes, i.e. 16 dex for thieves, 16 int for mages, and 16 wis for clerics. You don't need it, but it can certainly help.
Either way I was fairly certain rolls were getting surgically enhanced in some way.