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Unlimited throwing weapons?

MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
in Baldur's Gate II: Enhanced Edition
I have trouble to find a complete list of throwing weapon who have unlimited ammo in this game... anyone know where I can find one or can write one?

Comments

  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited April 2016
    In EE weapons, I know there is The Brick (throwing warhammer) too
    And there is this +4 throwing axe in ToB, too
    Post edited by Moonheart on
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    Well, I have hard time to find a decent ranged weapon for Viconia....
    I wish her to keep her shield equiped, so I need a throwing weapon. And Jaheira already use Fire Tooth (dagger)
  • MoonheartMoonheart Member Posts: 520
    edited April 2016
    Mmm... Right, I didn't try if I can keep my shield with a sling... will check

    EDIT: well, you can. So my Viconia has now a ranged option :)
  • Sids1188Sids1188 Member Posts: 166
    edited April 2016
    Moonheart said:

    Mmm... Right, I didn't try if I can keep my shield with a sling... will check

    EDIT: well, you can. So my Viconia has now a ranged option :)

    Slings are also the *only* ranged weapons a cleric can use. Well, except for the hammers, but they're kinda gimmicky.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    What's gimmicky about a hammer? For a dwarf cleric or cleric combo the dwarven thrower is great; for a cleric/thief with UAI they're fine, too, though you can do better for most purposes. A thrown weapon that does blunt damage (once upon a time this was bugged, but I think it's been fixed now) is good stuff, and there's no real gimmick to it: A hammer should do blunt damage. I suppose it's a bit gimmicky for a thrown weapon to return to hand, but if you don't like that, that's a whole lot of "gimmicky" weapons.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    @atakdog: The Dwarven Thrower does missile damage when thrown. This is in the item description, so I assume it's intended.
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    Moonheart said:

    Mmm... Right, I didn't try if I can keep my shield with a sling... will check

    EDIT: well, you can. So my Viconia has now a ranged option :)

    don't forget that "Sword and Shield" combat style will not work with ANY one handed range weapon. so don't drop points in that if you mainly think about staying ranged.
  • AriusArius Member Posts: 92
    The Dwarven thrower is the whole reason my party has a dwarven fighter cleric. 2D4 +3+8 vs giants and ogres. It's the BEST throwing weapon in the game IMO. SOme won't like because it is race restricted. My response....What were you EXPECTING from a weapon called a DWARVEN thrower?
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Arius said:

    The Dwarven thrower is the whole reason my party has a dwarven fighter cleric. 2D4 +3+8 vs giants and ogres. It's the BEST throwing weapon in the game IMO. SOme won't like because it is race restricted. My response....What were you EXPECTING from a weapon called a DWARVEN thrower?

    Even ignoring the racial restriction, does +8 vs. Giants and Ogres really outweigh +1d2 fire damage and an extra attack per round?
  • AriusArius Member Posts: 92
    joluv said:

    Arius said:

    The Dwarven thrower is the whole reason my party has a dwarven fighter cleric. 2D4 +3+8 vs giants and ogres. It's the BEST throwing weapon in the game IMO. SOme won't like because it is race restricted. My response....What were you EXPECTING from a weapon called a DWARVEN thrower?

    Even ignoring the racial restriction, does +8 vs. Giants and Ogres really outweigh +1d2 fire damage and an extra attack per round?
    the fire damage is nice but it is MUCH later in the game whereas the dwarven thrower is in trademeet. Also putting pips in hammers allows you to use hammers as a melee weapon and good ones. There really is't that many good daggers that I would chose over a short sword or longsword. Also giving a caster a powerful throwing weapon as a back up to spells is NICE. Also because it does BLUNT damage it is great vs golems and undead.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    Arius said:

    Also because it does BLUNT damage it is great vs golems and undead.

    Again, not if you're throwing it.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    I just checked in NI; @joluv, you're right about the damage still being missile when it's thrown. But as for it being intended, I can see the argument but see no reason why it would be, particularly now that there is a "blunt missile" damage category; I'd guess it is just an oversight dating back to the days when all missile weapons did missile damage, period. I know that at least one tweak mod offers the option to change this behavior; I was guessing that it had been fixed but in retrospect I suppose that was a silly expectation.
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 1,073
    The fire tooth throwing dagger and boomerang I believe get 2 attacks either in melee or thrown both, so this would IMO trump the dwarven thrower.

    Of course RP wise the dwarven thrower is super cool.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    I was about to say that I thought the Dwarven Thrower allows a strength bonus even when thrown while the Firetooth dagger doesn't, but I thought maybe I ought to check first... and the results are weird and IMO indicate that the dwarven thrower hasn't been coded right:

    Dwarven Thrower (hamm06.itm): No strength bonus (when thrown) of any kind; missile damage (not blunt missile)
    Firetooth +3 (dagg12.itm): Strength bonus to THAC0 (not damage) (This change was made in EE; in the original, some of us on GameFAQs tested hurled weapons in a quest to optimizing a hurling kensai, and the dagger provided none. Note for comparison that the crimson dart, dart08.itm still does not add a strength bonus to damage, so it's not as if all thrown weapons do.)

    Firetooth does provide an extra attack per round whenever it's equipped, and therefore will do so when it's thrown. (Strangely, perhaps, this attack genuinely is an addition, while crimson dart sets APR to 3.) This all adds up to Firetooth being much better than the dwarven thrower as a hurled weapon, not because it should be but because that's how it's coded, IMO in error.

    Another interesting bit about the dwarven thrower: Even when thrown, its animation includes a "backhand swing" (35% of the time). That, along with various other things about how it's coded, looks silly to me; it should be 100% overhand swing. (In melee it's overhand 34%, backhand 33%, thrust 33%, which is also a bit weird as I don't think too many hammer wielders thrust them, but whatever.)

    Whether a dagger should provide a strength-based bonus to damage is arguable, but it seems clear that if it does, a hammer sure the heck should.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    Even more fun with NI: I checked a few more thrown weapons for strength bonus damage, and the results make it look to me like there's work to be done here.

    Axes

    Throwing Axe, Hangard's Axe +2, Rifthome Axe +3, Azuredge +3, and K'logarath +3: No strength bonus damage when thrown
    Throwing Axe +2 (AX1H05): No strength bonus damage when thrown
    Throwing Axe +2 (AX1H06): Strength bonus to THAC0 and damage when thrown; note that this item is slightly different in a couple other ways from AX1H05, including a different selling price and 0 lore to identify, but its appearance and description is identical.

    Daggers

    All, including magical, nonmagical, and poisoned: Strength bonus to damage (but not THAC0) when thrown

    Darts

    All, including magical and nonmagical: No bonus damage when thrown

    Hammers

    Both — Dwarven Thrower +3 and The Brick +2: No bonus damage when thrown; note both do missile damage when thrown.

    Conclusions: First, it's pretty clear that AX1H06 is a mistake, as it's the only Axe to provide any strength bonus when thrown, and a strength bonus to THAC0 when thrown makes no sense regardless. fwiw I don't know where, or even whether, this item appears in the game, but it's in the .itm files.

    Second, with that exception, all daggers do strength bonus damage while no other hurled weapons do. That's consistent, sort of, but dumb; if daggers do then axes and hammers sure should. My guess is that when EE added the possibility of a bonus to damage alone, not THAC0 too, they fixed the daggers but skipped the axes and hammers.

    Also, while it's not idiotic to have hammers doing "missile" damage (which is, functionally, piercing) when thrown, I think it's a poor idea; again, my guess is not that it was a considered decision, but rather that no one bothered to change it after the engine was upgraded.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    Darn, I spoke too soon; there are three other miscoded hurling weapons.

    Throwing Dagger SW1H57 (as distinct from Throwing Dagger DAGG05) does not provide any strength bonus.

    The Bone Dagger (DARTMEL) is in every respect except its name a dart, and is coded as such with no bonus damage. I suppose this doesn't matter. (Is this something the final ToB villain wields, perhaps?)

    Throwing Axe (SPER04) is a weird hybrid of a spear and a throwing axe: Its icon is that of a spear, its description is that of an axe, it requires spear proficiency but does slashing damage in melee like an axe, and it can be hurled like an axe (doing missile damage, but unlike all other axes, with a strength bonus to both THAC0 and damage). Whatever this item is, it's been coded incorrectly in at least a couple ways.

    Note that I don't know whether or where any of these items appear in the game.
  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 2,137
    @atakdog: Are you looking at the correct version and the correct variables? I don't have NI, but a lot of what you're saying isn't reflected in gameplay in version 2.1. The Dwarven Thrower is definitely getting a strength bonus when thrown, for example.
  • atakdogatakdog Member Posts: 51
    edited May 2016
    Oops, that may be part of it; I'm looking at 1.3, because Beamdog hasn't seen fit to offer the 2.0 and 2.1 upgrades in the Apple Store. Sorry, I should have made that clear; in truth I admit I'd forgotten.
  • Sids1188Sids1188 Member Posts: 166
    edited May 2016
    My shaman has been using throwing axes and throwing daggers from Candlekeep to he end of SoA and every one of those that I've used has gotten strength to damage and dex to thac0 (at least on the inventory sheet, and when I see her damage in game it's always very high - she's a half orc, so it's noticeable). Haven't done any proper testing, but the strength bonuses sure look like they're working fine. The only person in my party that can use warhammers is Jan, who doesn't have enough strength for me to judge them. Of the stuff I happen to have on hand at the moment:

    Throwing Axe 10-15 damage
    Hangards Axe 11-16
    Throwing dagger 9-12
    Firetooth 13-19

    By the way, just noticed Hangard's Axe +2 only gets +1 damage compared to a regular throwing axe (1d6+2 compared to 1d6+1). Bug?

    Edit: Firetooth is still getting 2 apr in melee (should be 1). Regular throwing dags can't be used in melee, so they aren't an issue.
  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 1,073
    Daggers get strength bonuses for damage when thrown. This was also true in 1.3. In BGEE they were also receiving strength bonuses to THACO, but that was not the case in BG2EE. The latest 2.0 patch has correctly removed the erroneous THACO bonus from strength for throwing daggers in BGEE. Now they correctly apply the strength damage only.

    Darts have never had strength damage applied.

    On throwing axes, the strength bonus was working for me in BGEE with the 1.3 patch. I have never used throwing axes in BG2EE, but I think I remember they were bugged there or something.

    Daggers are excellent missile weapons for high-strength thieves, and in fact decent melee weapons also with the 2 APR. The w returning ones in BG2 are both like thrown bastard swords x 2 (+fire damage with the second one). Plus you gotta love the thrown dagger animation :)
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