Skip to content

bow's in bg1

SerephSereph Member Posts: 23
So I just read a thread that said the bg2 engine nerfed bow damage, what was it like in bg1? What were the differences? Just curious, I've been thinking about playing an archer for my first time through and I'd like to imagine how awesome it would be with the original engine.
«1

Comments

  • SarevokokSarevokok Member Posts: 171
    Well obviously in BG2 you're still going to hit harder than in BG1 even with a nerf so I don't think a number comparison would be fair. So I don't think there's a practical way to tell unless you go into some lengthy math bullshit.
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    Archers are amazing, regardless of any supposed nerf, which in all actuality is probably just fixing something that people simply got used to.

    Either way Bows will rock in BG 1 and 2, specially if used by the Ranger (Archer) Kit, he drops stuff so bloody fast, not even funny.
  • BrudeBrude Member Posts: 560
    The BG2 engine didn't, afaik, specifically nerf bows. It did buff other classes in ways that made bows seem less OP.

    Bows in BG1 were superior because of their extra APR and the ridiculously high damage from elemental ammo.

    Couple that with slow mob walking speeds, enemy mages without access to higher level protection spells like Stoneskin or Protection from Normal Missiles, and huge outdoor areas that were perfect for kiting.

    It basically meant that if you had 2-3 archer-types in you group with decent thac0s, very few mobs would live long enough to get into melee range or cast a spell.
  • cyberhawkcyberhawk Member Posts: 350
    I don't see bows being nerfed a lot in BG2, just the HP, AC and resistances got higher on everyone. Doing 5 damage was a big deal back in the low level times. And good archers with magic arrows could do so much more than that. It was as if you were fighting someone with a good melee weapon, but without the chance of getting hit yourself.

    Sirens and pretty much every other magic user were easy kills with good archers. It is also more realistic this way, the longbow was a hardcore weapon back in it's time, a good amount of archers having the high ground could really help to win an otherwise loosing battle.

    I played through all BG2 and ToB with the Archer kit once. That guy brought all the awesomeness of ranged weapons back into BG2, dealing damage like melee fighters but with more APR and from a distance. Add shoes of speed and you get yourself some cheese :)
  • OperativeNLOperativeNL Member Posts: 146
    Its more that at low levels, 1-6 damage from an arrow is more dangarous than vs level 30 mobs. In D&D the damage from weapons doesn't go up by level, instead you get access to better weapons but still...
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    Acid Arrows in BG1 dealt 1D6 + 2D6 + 1 damage, in BG2 they dealt 1D6 + 1D3 + 1. Massive difference, I'm really not sure what they're doing regarding this. They may leave it as is.

    I also recently heard Composite Bows added STR damage, which is news to me. So they may remove that, or perhaps not (maybe it was intended yet never mentioned). That does seem to add an unfair bonus when coupled with the massive elemental damage on arrows in BG1. So one (or both) will likely go. If they don't Archers (Ranger kit) will mop the floor in BGEE.
  • DragonspearDragonspear Member Posts: 1,838
    @Isair

    Composite longbows were SUPPOSED to add your strength multiplier. What they did instead was grant all composite longbows and automatic +2 to damage. Thus as long as your strength is 18/01-18/50 you were doing the proper amount.
  • reedmilfamreedmilfam Member Posts: 2,808
    I think it's more a fix in that acid arrows did a little too much damage. I tended to hoard my magical arrows, anyway. Don't know why - I just didn't like using them up!
  • HaHaCharadeHaHaCharade Member Posts: 1,644

    I think it's more a fix in that acid arrows did a little too much damage. I tended to hoard my magical arrows, anyway. Don't know why - I just didn't like using them up!

    Ditto - I never used potions or arrows or scrolls... what a waste lol.

  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853

    I think it's more a fix in that acid arrows did a little too much damage.

    Yeah, I hate to break this to you but most BG1 fanboys have the attitude of "if it's not a clear bug, don't change it" about BG:EE.

    (I don't mean this in a condescending manner to anyone. I'm with said fanboys.)
  • AmardarialAmardarial Member Posts: 270
    @Quartz Problem comes down to, if it works in a certain way in BG2, it's very likely to work that way in BG:EE regardless of how it worked in BG1.

    In this case Elemental Arrow damage is likely being reduce across the board.

    One thing being changed I do have issue with is Kits, any attempt at changing them for BG:EE will reduce their use in BG2:EE which I don't like as it's an attempt at balance when balance isn't needed.

    Elemental Arrow damage on the other hand, is simple just making things consistent.
  • TJ_HookerTJ_Hooker Member Posts: 2,438
    In addition to the elemental arrows being nerfed in BG2, they also removed the +damage on enchanted arrows and bolts. So where an arrow+x/bolt +x would do 1D6+x/1D8+x damage in BG, it just does 1D6/1D8 in BG2. Bullets kept the damage bonus though.
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    @Quartz - agreed.

    I don't know who's been spreading round that they added str damage, I'm glad all is as it was and I haven't been mistaken all this time. I'd say leave the BS damage as it is in BG1 & the scaled down damage in BG2. They would of made a conscious choice to set it at that level in the first place.

    The scaled down damage in Bg2 is likely the same reason there's few arrows of dispel & det. Not that I didn't sorely miss both in BG2! I wouldn't mind original BG1 arrows returning in TOB, unlikely though.
  • agrisagris Member Posts: 581
    Do slings add bonus damage from strength?
  • AshendilAshendil Member Posts: 56



    One thing being changed I do have issue with is Kits.

    In what way are they being changed?

  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    Eagle Bow and the Sling of Seeking both add strength damage into the roll. They are the exceptions.
  • beerflavourbeerflavour Member Posts: 117
    edited October 2012
    Ranged weapons were so dangerous in BG1 because characters and opponents had relatively few hit point. Fire & chill arrows or poisoned arrows/throwing daggers could swiftly rip up your whole party apart.

    By the time you get the AC of your front line fighters -7 or lower your chances for survival drastically improved. Wizards could use the shield and mirror image spells to survive longer. The sleep spell shines on the low levels. It's easier if the ranged opponents sleep instead of firing arrows.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    edited October 2012

    @Quartz Problem comes down to, if it works in a certain way in BG2, it's very likely to work that way in BG:EE regardless of how it worked in BG1.

    @Amardarial Which is exactly what I'm complaining about. It's sloppy, just like TuTu was sloppy.
  • 10thLich10thLich Member Posts: 99
    The problem with bows in BG2 is, that magical longbows no longer get their enhancement bonus to damage. Moreover, there's a definitive lack of +3 arrows before Throne of Bhaal areas. The only ranged weapon categorys with +3 or higher enchanted ammunitionless weapons are slings and short bows in Shadows of Amn, with the addition of crossbows if ToB is installed (axes, daggers and darts don't count).

    Moreover, there are no +4 or +5 arrows.

    10th
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729

    Eagle Bow and the Sling of Seeking both add strength damage into the roll. They are the exceptions.

    Apparently the Strength bonus for the Eagle Bow was considered a bug and has been removed in BGEE: http://forum.baldursgate.com/discussion/4312/the-eagle-bow-bug

    Am not sure about the Sling of Seeking, though - could anyone confirm?

    Even if discounting the Eagle Bow, are short bows still a better option than long and composite bows in BG2?

    I'm asking, as I'm going to run an (evil) elf Fighter/Mage multiclass through BGEE and BG2EE, probably configured for 2-handed swords (and staves) and long bow, as my thief usually gets given he best shortbow, and doesn't seem right to give elves crossbows (and they don't get the +1 THAC0 bonus for them).

    It might not be a problem for a fighter/mage not to have an ammunitionless bow, since they won't be using it as often as a Thief or Archer, although the lack of +3 (or higher) arrows until ToB could be a problem - does that mean there are some foes that a longbow won't be able to hit (because they are immune to < +3 weapons) in SOA/TOB that a shortbow could? If so, might consider giving my Fighter/Mage proficiencies in shortbow instead, and make my thief learn about crossbows...
  • MungriMungri Member Posts: 1,645
    edited November 2012
    Ammo is the limiting factor for ranged combat in the unmodded game (you can cheese unlimited ammo stacking via mods).

    There are 5 very nice ranged weapons in BG1 (ignoring throwers):

    Eagle Bow
    Long Bow of Marksmanship
    Light Crossbow of Speed
    Heavy Crossbow of Accuracy
    Sling +3

    You could with a little planning set up a group where every character can use one of those, plus a dart throwing Mage for the 6th slot. Maybe something like:

    Elf Archer PC - Longbow + 1 point in Halberd (Halberd +2)
    Fighter - Xbow + 2 handed sword (Spiders bane)
    Thief - shortbow
    Cleric or Druid - Sling + cleric weapons
    Bard Xbow / Bastard Sword / Axe
    Specialist mage - darts

  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012
    The thing is I want my Fighter/Mage to be able to use a good (non-crossbow) bow in BG2 too, would shortbows be better in this the long run? Could then give Imoen crossbows (light cross bow of speed in BG1, Firetooth in BG2)...

    Also - my Fighter/Mage will be using Spiders Bane (will combine nicely with Web...)
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    BTW Kagain (possibly Dorn in BGEE) will be my only heavy crossbow user in BGEE
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012

    The thing is I want my Fighter/Mage to be able to use a good (non-crossbow) bow in BG2 too, would shortbows be better in this the long run? Could then give Imoen crossbows (light cross bow of speed in BG1, Firetooth in BG2)...

    So - what do people think, would shortbows be better in the long run (i.e. into BG2) than longbows for CHARNAME, due to some shortbows (and crossbows, but wouldn't get the elf +! bonus then) having built-in unlimited magic ammo etc. in BG2? I'm not going to be taking both proficiencies, so its one or the other... I'd rather have a non-optimal setup in BG1, if it means a better experience in BG2...

    My thief (probably Imoen) can use crossbows instead, if necessary.

    Post edited by Oxford_Guy on
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729


    So - what do people think, would shortbows be better in the long run (i.e. into BG2) than longbows for CHARNAME, due to some shortbows (and crossbows, but wouldn't get the elf +1 bonus then) having built-in unlimited magic ammo etc. in BG2? I'm not going to be taking both proficiencies, so its one or the other... I'd rather have a non-optimal setup in BG1, if it means a better experience in BG2...

    My thief (probably Imoen) can use crossbows instead, if necessary.

    Anyone? I have quite a bit of experience of BG1, but not much in BG2, so am not sure how well longbows would work....
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Okay, have done some more research, these links help a bit, when looking at bows in BG2:

    http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/threads/taralash-darkfire-bow-etc.93047/

    http://www.gamebanshee.com/forums/threads/short-bow-long-bow-or-crossbow.32318/

    Basically, if you want unlimited magic ammo (some of which is the only bow ammo better than +3, which is rare anyway) you need to go for short bows (espc. for Gessen) or crossbows (espc. for Firetooth)

    Pity, as longbows seem better from an RP perspective for an elf fighter/magic user, but I might still stick with them.
  • IsairIsair Member Posts: 217
    Even though you won't gain the Elven THAC0 bonus for using a crossbow I'd still advise it. With bows I like to combine improved haste & critical strike however I find improved whirlwind works best with two handed swords. So with bows you'd have to devide your epic feats between the two. With crossbows I prefer to use improved whirlwind so there's no such issue.

    As a fighter/mage you're better off not having to split your focus so you can also gain epic mage feats faster. But you'll gain plenty of pips in the time inbetween so why not use a bow for the first half of the game & a crossbow in the later stages.
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012
    Isair said:

    Even though you won't gain the Elven THAC0 bonus for using a crossbow I'd still advise it. With bows I like to combine improved haste & critical strike however I find improved whirlwind works best with two handed swords. So with bows you'd have to devide your epic feats between the two. With crossbows I prefer to use improved whirlwind so there's no such issue.

    My Fighter/Mage will be wielding a two-handed sword most of the time, so would probably favour whirlwind
    Isair said:


    As a fighter/mage you're better off not having to split your focus so you can also gain epic mage feats faster. But you'll gain plenty of pips in the time inbetween so why not use a bow for the first half of the game & a crossbow in the later stages.

    It's possible, for my Fighter/Mage am now currently thinking something like:

    Level 1
    Two-handed Swords++
    Longbow++

    Levels 3 & 6
    Two-handed fighting++

    [Level 7 - 1.5 Base APR]

    Levels 9 & 12
    Staves++

    [Level 13 - 2.0 Base APR]

    Levels 15 & 18
    Crossbow++

    Levels 21 & 24*
    Halberd++

    * though its going to take ages to get here as a Figher/Mage, is Level 24 even possible? What level would I be at at the end of SOA?

    Maybe with the last two swapped around?

    Would this be reasonable?
    Post edited by Oxford_Guy on
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    edited November 2012
    Okay, the levels for F/M would work out as:

    end-BG1 (TOSC): 7 fighter / 7 mage
    end -BG2 SOA: 13 fighter/13 fighter
    end-TOB: 24 fighter / 20 mage

    Am not going to get much use of those halberds with the above build... At roughly what level is dragon slaying required (not too many spoilers, though, please), as there's one that would help with that?
  • Oxford_GuyOxford_Guy Member Posts: 3,729
    Maybe this would be better, as the extra -2 speed from the second pip in two-handed fighting is not that great (or is it essential against spellcasters?):

    Level 1
    Two-handed Swords++
    Longbow++

    Levels 3 & 6
    Two-handed fighting+
    Staves +

    [Level 7 - 1.5 Base APR]

    Levels 9 & 12
    Staves++
    Crossbow+

    [Level 13 - 2.0 Base APR]

    Levels 15 & 18
    Crossbow++
    Two-handed fighting++

    Two-handed fighting+

    Levels 21 & 24*
    Halberd++
Sign In or Register to comment.