Anyone ever make a kensai/thief to use carsomyr?
guston
Member Posts: 70
I've always wanted to make a kensai, give him two handed sword grand mastery and two handed weapon style specialization and then dual him to a thief to get use any item. Is the class as powerful as it sounds in my head? Has anyone ever played a game like that?
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That said I think a level 13 Kensai with Carosmyr, would be able to swing it with an effective weapon speed of either 0 or 1 which WOULD be kinda cool.
My question is this. Will this guy be as good in a straight up fight as a paladin?
1: Use Any Item essentially means you can equip the same thing as whomever you're gonna fight except you'll also have -2 AC because Kensai.
2: Kai.
3: A raw Kensai (and possibly a raw Swashbuckler, not sure) will have more +damage than you, but only by a bit. That raw Kensai won't have armor, though, so he'll have more difficulties landing a hit and will be extremely vulnerable himself. That Swashbuckler can't match your Thac0.
4: Grand Mastery (so he's gonna have that much more of an advantage over Paladins and Rangers)
5: UAI = Can utilize scrolls = as much of a cleric/mage as you're willing to shell out the cash for = Tenser's Transformation + Righteous Magic scrolls.
Also, why use Carsomyr when you can dual-wield with backstabby weapons like Katanas (which also do d10)? Carsomyr isn't even the most deadly two-handed sword except against chaotic evil enemies. Gram the Sword of Grief +5 has better DPS because of that poison proc, plus it level drains which screws over mages about as well as dispel on hit. Or you could use one of the other two best weapons in the game, Ravager +6 or the Staff of the Ram +6.
Staff of the Ram also backstabs for just ungodly numbers. It's highly recommended.
You'd get Kai, but you wouldn't be able to get Greater Whirlwind for 10 APR. Even with Improved Haste I think you would be limited to 6. Furthermore you can't use the assassination ability for thieves which turns every attack in that round into a backstab, since you can't backstab with said greatsword.
From a role-playing perspective, a Fighter using a Quarterstaff as his primary weapon would be interesting. Almost all the guards in Candlekeep are shown using Staves, and that could be where your character started. Now why your character ends up turning to being a thief instead of a mage is up to you to determine but it does have an initial starting flavor.
Honestly, I played a Paladin in my last playthrough and I LOVE Carosomyr, but their are plenty of weapons that provide MUCH better survivability, and most of them will allow you to backstab as well. Heck it was bad enough (granted I was testing a few things for myself too), but my paladin ended up dual wielding instead of using it (CURSE YOU KELDORN), heck she even went dual wield even though I wanted to use a shield on her they're that good.
Which reminds me, I hope they make some shields that can stand up to their offhand counterparts in BG2EE.
Elf/Ranger/Archer kit
Human/Fighter/Kansai kit dualed to thief
Elf/Sorcerer
A dual wielding build is not something I'm really interested in this time.
Staff of the Ram would allow you the massive backstabs from the thief as well as getting your 2handed weapon fix.
Also I've heard nothing but good things about the Archer kit so I will throw my support behind that. Of course, admitting my bias, I've just never PERSONALLY liked dual classing.
As for dual classing, I've always liked the idea behind it if not how it's implemented. If I'm in the position to have to defend myself I don't really care about beating my opponent fairly. Being the best at one thing is difficult and takes years of practice but being good in a bunch of things is much easier. I see a fighter/thief as the ultimate combat pragmatist. Learn enough about swordsmanship to defend yourself if you have to but always try to outsmart your opponent. Mages are powerful but fragile. Why fight one fair and square when you can just shiv them from the shadows. Some guy challenges you to a dual? Fireball them in the face with a magic staff then deliver the finishing blow by lopping off their head. Also race and class restrictions on items always seemed rather arbitrary to me. Sure I can see selling or giving away an item if it's something I have no use for. Passing up some nice loot because "that sword is sacred, only a holy paladin can touch it" isn't in my nature though.
As far as surprise attacks from behind with a staff well, putting a lot of force into an attack on the back of someone's skull. Just saying.
That said, a single dagger kensai might be interesting........Grand Mastery in daggers.......herm
If you dual at level 13 you have 8 THAC0, +4/+4 Kensai bonus, +3/+5 Grand Mastery bonus. On the other hand a level 21 Paladin has a 0 THAC0 and +1/+2 for specialization. So compared to the Paladin you still have -2 to hit, although you do get +7 damage. But in order to get there you have to spend a big chunk of the game as low level thief and you don't get to use Carsomyr until very late. A big part of what makes Carsomyr special is that you get it in chapter 2... by the time your Kensai/Thief is able to use it in ToB there are other amazing weapons available. Also, the thief abilities don't mesh well with what you're trying to do, since you can't backstab with Carsomyr or wear armor while thieving.
On the other hand, if you think it'd be fun then go for it. But I think it makes more sense to use the Kensai skills in a way that complements the thief skills like some other people in this topic have described. If what you want is basically to just make the ultimate melee fighter with Kensai + armor, what I'd do is take the Kensai all the way to level 21 before dualling so you get that 0 THAC0.
But nah, Kensai>Thief, I would rather go with Scarlet Ninja-to as main weapon and Flail of Ages as backup weapon, while in offhand, I get myself a nice Belm.
I am not one that backstabs either, Cleric/thieves are FAR better at doing that than any other combination in the game, unless you go with a Kensai till level 21 or something (which is impractical)
If I had a choice on the matter, I would go with Kensai>Thief with Staff of the Magi with Staff of the Ram in offhand. Still a more damaging solution, and the latter is a backstabbing, dragon sweeping weapon XD
The disadvantage of using it with a Kensai/Thief (as already stated) is that they can't whirlwind, which in my view is when this weapon is most effective. Hence my preference of multi over dual.
Elven Ranger - Archer is fantastic, Crossbow + Lightning bolts + WW Or Bow + Improved haste + Critical strike. Smite is also highly amusing with a bow.
Scorched Earth, Squirrels and BOO!
Also I might be mistaken but I thought that Archers couldn't get Grand Mastery in Crossbows.
After talking about them here and another thread @Guston I might try the same thing.
Actually............notsomuch. Carsomyr currently sets your base MR to 50%, instead of increasing it by 50%. Which means that as a WS, it would actually ignore your passive MR already. That said I believe the BG2 fixpack changes this, but as of right now its bugged =/
*ffffzzzzTWAP*
*dead mage*
Kensai/Thief is a blast, though. I think half the fun is trying to regain your fighter levels, honestly. Maybe that's just me. Dual-wielded katanas. Was intense. I recall soloing a large portion of the game by stealth shenanigans. There's nothing quite like guaranteeing a 90+ damage backstab.
It's not like you can't whirlwind. You just can't do it while Kai is active, right? Or am I missing something?
I don't know if Kai and Whirlwind are mutually exclusive however for a regular Kensai.
I think that makes more sense than a dual class build.
Kai only lasts a single round to the best of my knowledge, so by the time you could activate whirlwind, it'd already end. Vice versa also applies. Because you can only do one ability/spell/potion per round and all.
I've often wondered if you dual-class at the level you'd gain HLAs in your classes for a multi-classed guy, if you'd have access to HLAs from that class. Or even if you'd gain HLAs at the proper XP equivalent. You start gaining HLAs as soon as you hit whatever level 3 mil XP grants. I might test this out later today.
I vaguely recall having fighter HLAs for Anomen once but I may have hacked those in.