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Review dissonance will be a huge problem

ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122
How will a reviewer approach reviewing enhanced edition of baldurs gate?
The way I see it, there are a few mutually exclusive approaches:

1. Judge the whole release. That means that supposing all the new changes are rubbish/meh, the games should still recieve a high review score, since the game includes all the original BG gameplay, and the game was almost universally critically acclaimed.

2. The exact opposite: Review only the enhanced edition changes - If the new content is rubbish/meh then the game gets a very low score

3. Judge it as a re-release: Is it just a cash grab? Does the game merit re-releasing - are the updates enough to justify the game's re-release?

4.Who is the intended audience of the review?
How do the graphics of the game compare to a $20 game you might expect to be released today - is the game really playable by people who didn't play it originally? Is BG essentially a bad or obstructive game by todays standards?
Similarly, is the game recommended to people who already own the originals? Is there enough new content to justify buying the game again?

5. Platform specific. The game might end up scoring a 10/10 on the iPad, since it would blow the competition out of the water, but get a much lower score on the PC, where the competition is higher.

These are just some of the examples I can think of, which would potentially make the game difficult to evaluate with just a quick glance at it's meta critic score, and just reading a review on a website wouldn't necessarily tell you because the reviewer is possibly going to be judging the game to a different standard and to a different audience than you.

So my question is to all the people on these forums who are waiting for the game to release before deciding whether to buy it is: How do you intend to evaluate the finished product as being a worthy/unworthy purchase?
I'm not that interested in answers along the lines of "I just want to see if feature X is included and then I'll get it", but more in the people who are genuinely undecided about whether getting the game is going to be worthwhile.
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Comments

  • RomulanPaladinRomulanPaladin Member Posts: 188
    I don't know about game reviews, but it has been said that top name movie reviewers don't even write their reviews; the companies that produce the film do.

    Even if that is the case for games, I don't expect that for this particular game. Still, one must be wary.
  • ShinShin Member Posts: 2,345
    I'm hoping for a combination of 1 and 2. The EE ought to be judged at least partially for what it represents in terms of a revival/renewal of possibly the greatest game series ever, with a potential for a lot of future content and, if it does reasonably well, incentive to develop more similar games, akin to Project Eternity.

    This aspect alone should be enough to judge an EE like this not solely on new content. Like I have said many times before on this forum, in my eyes the actual new content/bugfixes/zoom function etc is worth next to nothing in comparison to what a renewal of the BG trilogy represents when it comes to long-term development.

    Having said that, if the new content does turn out to be "meh", punches shouldn't be pulled in the reviewing of it. The development team has some enormous-sized shoes to fill with this project, and anything short of them crawling every last inch on their hands and knees, bleeding and starving, to attempt to do so will be a disappointment.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 16,316
    If this game ends up focussing on getting tablet sales official reviews might not matter much in terms of their impact on purchases. User reviews may matter more.
  • sandmanCCLsandmanCCL Member Posts: 1,389
    This is why I like Kotaku's reviews. They only have a handful of levels they give on reviews.

    YES
    MAYBE
    NOT NOW
    NO

    Because at the end of the day, that's what people want to know. Numbers or grades are subjective and don't really tell the story. People simply want to know if it's worth their time or not.
  • CheesebellyCheesebelly Member Posts: 1,727
    I follow a reviewer of sorts, a first impressionist on youtube with a fairly growing following. He isn't afraid to tell the facts of a game straight in your face - if it sucks, he says so the first second of his review. He once left a tweet saying that an AAA publisher contacted him, asking how much money would he like for a good review for one of their products.

    Truth be told, I wouldn't be surprised if the AAA publisher was, I don't know, EA or Activison, but that's beyond the point.


    Point is - reviewing system is FAKE, it's so rubbish it disugsts me. Those numbers mean NOTHING, games are subjective matter. I love Two Worlds for instance, despite 99% of the reviewers hating it "for not being Oblivion" (word)
    Nowadays, a game shouldn't be influenced by a number. "Oooh, IGN gave it a 6, they are pretty big reviewers so I should definitely listen to them, duhh!" - that's a WRONG behavior.

    I hope for the sake of Overhaul, the hard work they put into BGEE, that said game will get excellent reviews. It earns them in my eyes. But to some dimwits spread around the world, covered in a gold blanket given to them by the superior AAA companies, it might not be the same. If that's the case, then they are dumb idiots.

    That said, I take my leave *slams imaginary door* NICE!
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    edited October 2012
    That third point is going to the biggest problem,but not because of reviewers. Most of the diehard BG fans think that everything the Enhanced Edition does can be done far more effectively using mods (and more cheaply as well), and they're pretty much the main audience for this game. BG was already a niche game to begin with, and if that niche rejects it as a percieved money grab whose improvements are unnecessary at best, then Overhaul Games will not survive the backlash.
    Post edited by rattmann on
  • rexregrexreg Member Posts: 292
    never listen to a critic
  • NightfallRobNightfallRob Member Posts: 43
    Reviews are honestly a bought-and-sold commodity. I think a lot of people are learning to wait for user reviews as opposed to the "professional" critics.
  • CyricSpawnCyricSpawn Member Posts: 74
    Honestly it's more important that BGEE gets the splash it need ie front page on the app stores and coverage from the likes of game spy, ign etc

    If people can see it they will buy it
  • GrammarsaladGrammarsalad Member Posts: 2,582
    It's funny you used the word "dissonance" in the title. One might even call it--if this was a play say-- dramatic irony.

    Reviewers are like scientists, doctors, and politicians in that they know where their bread is buttered.

    Nature of the beast
  • WonderviceWondervice Member Posts: 56
    If they are good rewievers, they will take all those points into consideration.
    If they are not it will end up either "HURR DURR there is no 16x AA option in graphics this is shit" or "HURR DURR Baldurs Gate is the best thing that ever happened in this universe therefore it must get 1210347237%"
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    rattmann said:

    That third point is going to the biggest problem,but not because of reviewers. Most of the diehard BG fans think that everything the Enhanced Edition does can be done far more effectively using mods (and more cheaply as well), and they're pretty much the main audience for this game. BG was already a niche game to begin with, and if that niche rejects it as a percieved money grab whose improvements are unnecessary at best, then Overhaul Games will not survive the backlash.

    I would substitute "most diehard fans" with "some diehard fans".
    I would think a LOT of diehard fans are on this forum, and the vast majority is very enthusiastic about the game...

    Everything I've read here and on forums at GOG and other places, the fans that are criticizing BG:EE in advance mostly haven't got a clue of what this edition really bring to the table in comparison to the modded version.
    And a lot just seems to critique the game in advance just for the hell of it, with no basis whatsoever...
  • WanderonWanderon Member Posts: 1,418
    @Bytebrain - indeed - perhaps what is needed is a glossary explaining reviewers terminology

    If a review says:

    Most diehard fans

    It generally means:

    Two guys that I know

    [insert snarky smiley face here)
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    Wanderon said:

    @Bytebrain - indeed - perhaps what is needed is a glossary explaining reviewers terminology

    If a review says:

    Most diehard fans

    It generally means:

    Two guys that I know

    [insert snarky smiley face here)

    LOL!!!
  • mch202mch202 Member Posts: 1,455
    Diablo 3 score at IGN: 9.5

    Dragon Age 2 score at IGN: 8.5

    By listening to IGN reviews you can lose fair amount of money
  • CyricSpawnCyricSpawn Member Posts: 74
    IGN generally rate BG though they gave BG2 the no2 slot in best ever RPG and no1 came in around 30ish
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    edited October 2012
    @Bytebrain
    I wouldn't be too sure that this forum makes up the majority of BG fans. Call me cynical, but I get the feeling that we might just be an extremely vocal minority. Personally, I'm still undecided about the issue and want to wait until the game comes out and people start talking about their personal experiences with it before I make a decision. Professional reviews might be unreliable, but that doesn't mean player reviews can't be trusted.
  • BytebrainBytebrain Member Posts: 602
    rattmann said:

    @Bytebrain
    I wouldn't be too sure that this forum makes up the majority of BG fans. Call me cynical, but I get the feeling that we might just be an extremely vocal minority. Personally, I'm still undecided about the issue and want to wait until the game comes out and people start talking about their personal experiences with it before I make a decision. Professional reviews might be unreliable, but that doesn't mean player reviews can't be trusted.

    I'm sure you're right about the majority of fans doesn't belong to this forum.
    But I was taking issue with your statement that "most diehard fans" would prefer the modded version.
    None of us know how many diehard fans is looking forward to this release.
    It's a blanket statement, which means absolutely nothing.
  • ajwzajwz Member Posts: 4,122

    This is why I like Kotaku's reviews. They only have a handful of levels they give on reviews.

    YES
    MAYBE
    NOT NOW
    NO

    Because at the end of the day, that's what people want to know. Numbers or grades are subjective and don't really tell the story. People simply want to know if it's worth their time or not.

    I can't really comment on the accuracy of kotaku's reviews, but I can say that I don't like Kotaku. They are pretty nefarious in their practices.

  • CyricSpawnCyricSpawn Member Posts: 74
    @ajws how so?
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    The biggest problem with BGEE as far as reviews go is that the most important aspects of the work going into the release(engine optimization and feature externalization) are almost certainly going to be overlooked by the vast majority of the critics. "Loads faster" and "may be more easily modded" make for pretty poor review points, but that second one is going to be the feature that makes BGEE the definitive version of the game in the long run.
  • salierisalieri Member Posts: 245
    I consider myself to be a relatively die-hard fan of the game, and personally I have no intertest either in a heavily modded version of the original, nor in the promises of easier modding for BGEE. I've got nothing against it, I simply have never really had any desire to download fanmods for anything that isn't designed specifically as a platform for player-generated content (NWN, Littlebigplanet etc.)
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    @salieri and there is nothing wrong with that. But considering that the modding community for the game is still active after 14 years -for a game that is notoriously painful to mod I might add- and considering that GOG's recent marketing attempt was all about enhancing your experience with mods, I'd say that there is a fair size group out there that do care about modding. And on that inevitable day that there are mods available that will not and cannot work with the original game due to hardcoded limiations, the choice remaining will be to buy BGEE or to pass up the latest mods.
  • CaptRoryCaptRory Member Posts: 1,660
    Once a game is no longer officially supported, mods are the only way to fix things (whether it is something that you feel needs fixing or not).

    Like, the lack of female romances. I prefer playing female characters, but if I'm stuck with Anomen... urgh. I can't believe they did HIS romance before someone less grating than running your hand through a mechanical cheese grating machine. So, since they don't make DLC or Expansions for a game this old, your only hope was for a modder to come in and make their own custom content.

    It's not necessarily anyone's fault either. I don't want to imply that. A lot of great games were rushed out the door because the company making them was going out of business and it was Now or Never so fans had to do the heavy lifting for fixing things.
  • jpierce55jpierce55 Member Posts: 86
    In all honesty, I doubt it will get much recognition. What it does will likely be bad, from what we have seen. I am not saying the game improvements are going to be horrible, reviewers likely will.
  • rattmannrattmann Member Posts: 19
    edited October 2012
    @Bytebrain
    Maybe you're right- I was probably jumping to conclusions there based on observing a handful of communities I've seen. I'd rather not name them, since I don't want to start a flamewar between forums or something.
  • ramagonsramagons Member Posts: 96
    if a bear eats a game reviewer in the woods, does anyone else care?

    in seriousness, I think they're completely useless these days. people have a pretty good idea of what games they'll like and what games they won't, and modern game reviewers are mostly just professional trolls that should be dragged to a ditch, shot and then burnt.
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    @ramagons Unfortunately there is a clear correlation between review scores and sales, so obviously the majority of consumers do care. Reviews may often be a bunch of BS, but they are a bunch of BS that people pay attention to before shelling out cash.
  • QuartzQuartz Member Posts: 3,853
    I think most people tend to look at user reviews more than critic reviews. I could be wrong, but I know a lot of people like that.
  • ScarsUnseenScarsUnseen Member Posts: 170
    @Quartz A friend's review is valuable if you are into the same types of games. Similarly, a small community of like-minded gamers can give some insight into the worth of a game. Taken as a group overall, user reviews are actually worse than professional reviews for the same reason that I'd rather be tried for a crime by a court than a mob. Metacritic user reviews are some of the worst examples of this, with the recent trend of zero-bombing games(and on the flip side giving straight 10s by fanboys) making them inconsistent and unreliable as hell.

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