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How evil is Necromancy?

DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
in General Discussion (Spoiler Warning!)
Hi there

I know it had been discussed before , but I'm currently creating a neutral good Necromancer, and I would like to know your opinions about certain spells.

For example, a Death Spell and Finger of Death are spells that prevent ressurection , so they are indeed cruel spells . I understand that a good character wouldn't use it at weak or enemies that aren't evil enough, but how evil is it to cast it on nasty assassins , Umber hulks and other creatures that would destroy or eat me on sight?

Another question, spells such as Larloch Minor Drain and Vampiric touch absorve the life force of a person and transfer it to you, in a temporary fashion. Does it mean that the stolen life force is returned to the victim (assuming it didn't die) , and if the target is dead does it affect its afterlife somehow?

According to AD&D's complete book of Necromancers , there is a list of spells that are considered "Criminal Spells or Black Necromancy" , which means that using them constantly would get the attention of evil deities or nether creatures and , in time, it would corrupt your soul. After all, you can't go casting death spell every , summoning evil shadows or condemning people with finger of death without suffering moral dillemas from it.

List of "Criminal spells"

1st chill touch, corpse visage (WH), exterminate
2nd choke (WH), ghoul touch (WH), rain of blood (SH)
3rd bone club (WH), mummy touch (FOR), pain touch (WH), vampiric touch, rain of blood (SH), skull trap
4th Beltyn's burning blood (FOR), brainkill, contagion, enervation
5th bone blight, mummy rot (WH), summon shadow, throbbing bones (WH)
6th blackmantle (WH), dead man's eyes (WH), death spell, flames of justice (AA), ghoul gauntlet, Grimwald's
gray mantle (FOR), lich touch (FOR)
7th finger of death, suffocate (TOM)
8th Abi-Dalzim's horrid wilting (TOM), death link (FOR), deathshroud, defoliate (WH), shadow form (WH)
9th conflagration (AA), death ward, energy drain, wail of the banshee (TOM)


Notice that it doesn't include animate dead or spells that could be used to neutral purposes, neither does it include spells that use the caster's own life force such as Spirit armor and spells that hold or destroy Undead(that would actually be an example of "White Necromancy") .

So back to my first question, how evil is it to cast powerful necromantic spells on truly evil enemies?

Comments

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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  • VallmyrVallmyr Member, Mobile Tester Posts: 2,459
    So the evil-ness of Necromancy entirely depends on the edition of D&D we're talking about. 5e, no necromancy is innately evil. 3.5e animate dead and very few other necromancy spells have the "evil" descriptor however this doesn't affect arcane casters at all. An arcane caster can cast a million "evil" descriptor spells and nothing happens.

    I think you drew from the right material for 2e. I have the book myself and yeah, I imagine that if you want to play a NG necromancer then use those spells sparingly. Like casting when needed as opposed to just whenever. If a sword can get the job done then just use a sword. Fighting some crazy archdemon that's going to destroy the world? Casting Finger of Death that one time won't turn you evil instantly.
  • marzbarzmarzbarz Member Posts: 187
    Arent some/all healing spells like the cures, poison removes,l deathward, etc are all necromancer type spells.

    So imo yeah there can be "good" people that use that spell school for things but someone going around claiming to be a "necromancer" generally uses the death spells and those types of spells to animate skeletons for personal armies etc. I guess you can have a good necromancer if they focused on the healing junk but then theyd just be called priests/clerics and associated with a god that suits.
    That said it is possible to be a good necromancer imo if you can rp it right, and refrain from using the spells you mentioned and use the other necromancer school spells for good things. I see necromancy as a tool (school) that is better used for evil but in the end it can be adapted to good uses. I can see possible rp issues with how you learned such spells too ( not the healing ones, the ones that drain life etc...lol )
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    In a way, insta-killing with a death spell is humane... I'd say any spell that causes terrible or prolonged suffering before or during death is an evil one though, unless the end absolutely justifies the means and there was no alternative way.

    Necromancy on the whole is not evil... It's just a study of death magic (ironically also leading to healing spells too as already pointed out)
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    Thanks @subtledoctor , I see your point. Pain and torture would be considered evil means no matter the target. I guess such spells should be used with caution.

    @Vallmyr and @marzbarz I agree with the fact that it depends on the game, the campaign setting etc. I am considering the classic concept of necromancy, which is the the arcane trespassing divine territory by dealing with death, souls, life forces , thus being "forbidden" by most societies.

    @jesterdesu , if it just killed them then it would humane indeed. However, in pnp it also prevents the victim from being raised, so it is as condemning as a disintegrate spell.


  • KampfKaninchenKampfKaninchen Member Posts: 139
    Why is it necessarily bad that someone is prevented from being raised again? Because the soul is destroyed or smth like that? I have no real clue about the lore, so if you or someone else could explain that... ;)

    Afaik some peoples soul would end up in one of the various hells, to be tortured forever (hello SoD). So for someone in that position, vanishing entirely instead of ordinarly dying seems like a good tradeoff?
  • MalicronMalicron Member Posts: 629
    Wait, Finger of Death and Horrid Wilting are evil spells? Well, s***. Guess my CHARNAME's staying in hell after SoA after all.
  • PteranPteran Member Posts: 388
    If Harry decided to try and Avada Kedavra Voldemort, would that make him evil? I'd say no. But I can see how others would not come to that same conclusion.

    I'm unclear why preventing the raising of a group of orcs/trolls that raided an innocent village is a bad thing. If you were waltzing through town randomly killing innocent people, then yes that makes you evil no matter what spell (or class) you're using. I'd say that you'd be justified in using your skills to slay monsters and other dangerous targets.
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    edited May 2016
    I think it's more the whole raising of the dead aspect that is considered morally dubious. Why? Because, quite simply, it messes with the natural order of dead bodies decaying and called on the energy of the Negative Energy Plane. A lot of it has to do with the fact that many necromancers eventually seek to become liches. The fact that some necromancers seek to actively raise armies of undead doesn't help either. Some necromancers even will kill the living to do so, rather than just finding dead bodies in a graveyard.
  • BelgarathMTHBelgarathMTH Member Posts: 5,653
    That cleric Animate Dead spell is just *too* strong. Talk about temptation to the Dark Side!

    I'm playing a paladin run right now where I'm going to have to face the temptation to let my clerics cast it. I even struggle with it with all my good characters, which is all my characters.

    I let my neutral good skald have Branwen use it against the Sirines. Her four skellies steamrolled them, and a lot of other encounters, too. And I felt really, really dirty and guilty about it.
  • DJKajuruDJKajuru Member Posts: 3,300
    edited May 2016
    BelgarathMTH said:

    That cleric Animate Dead spell is just *too* strong. Talk about temptation to the Dark Side!

    I'm playing a paladin run right now where I'm going to have to face the temptation to let my clerics cast it. I even struggle with it with all my good characters, which is all my characters.

    I let my neutral good skald have Branwen use it against the Sirines. Her four skellies steamrolled them, and a lot of other encounters, too. And I felt really, really dirty and guilty about it.

    I don't know a Lawful Good Paladin would deal with it, but Animate Dead is actually considered a neutral spell!
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    DJKajuru said:

    I don't know a Lawful Good Paladin would deal with it, but Animate Dead is actually considered a neutral spell!

    It depends on what god/goddess that paladin serves. Some common "paladin gods" are:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Ilmater
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Helm
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Lathander
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Torm
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Tyr
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kelemvor -- after the Time of Troubles

    These gods tended to frown on the idea of raising the dead as undead.

    Some less common "paladin gods" are:
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mystra
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bahamut
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sune

    Of these, Mystra is likely to be tolerant of raising the dead for non-nefarious purposes. (Velsharoon, the god of necromancy, used to serve Azuth, who in turn served Mystra.) Sune also would be likely to view it in a similar way, but she also is all about beauty (and the undead aren't typically beautiful). Bahamut is a god of justice, so he would probably consider "unjust" raising of the dead to be a no-no.
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