Witcher 2
Finished this game an hour ago...
I think i can safely say this game is all i wished the dragon age would have been, but failed.
1- It treats a player as a mature being: sex and violence are realistically portrayed, people swear and generally act like an assholes, like in real people tend to.
2- characters are developed and believable: i found myself really hating more than one npc and actually looked forward to kill them. that didn't happen in a LONG time. characters in general are not saints or devils, and often it's the circumstance or greater goal that dictates your interaction. very very few npcs behave like their sole purpose is to deliver their exact and expected lines, in order to present us with the general idea of their (caricatured) role. their "occupation" (king, peasant, elf) is a part of them, not the whole of them.
3-story is good: while there is still some world threatening stuff going on and amnesia as plot device, it was well developed IMO. choices are even better, there is no good or bad, consequences come much later in the game.
4- appropriate graphics: although witcher is total eye candy, i'm not talking about that. details that make the world feel alive and diverse, like characters having their individual faces (no 300 generic peasants, and they actually bothered to make various age-related models. no more old ladies with the bodies of a 20 yers old girls)
5- combat: is hard. at one point i switched to easy and slaughtered my way through. i imagine a lot of people that want challenge will find here what they want, but if you like your battles easy, that can be arranged too.
all in all, i am very impressed with the relative maturity of this title. i really felt all the dirt of "fantasy middle ages", not to mention rampant prejudice and brutality. i was highly skeptical before, but if someone asks again, no, i don't want to live in a fantasy setting, despite of dragons and magic :P
bottom line- if anyone cares, i recommend this title.
I think i can safely say this game is all i wished the dragon age would have been, but failed.
1- It treats a player as a mature being: sex and violence are realistically portrayed, people swear and generally act like an assholes, like in real people tend to.
2- characters are developed and believable: i found myself really hating more than one npc and actually looked forward to kill them. that didn't happen in a LONG time. characters in general are not saints or devils, and often it's the circumstance or greater goal that dictates your interaction. very very few npcs behave like their sole purpose is to deliver their exact and expected lines, in order to present us with the general idea of their (caricatured) role. their "occupation" (king, peasant, elf) is a part of them, not the whole of them.
3-story is good: while there is still some world threatening stuff going on and amnesia as plot device, it was well developed IMO. choices are even better, there is no good or bad, consequences come much later in the game.
4- appropriate graphics: although witcher is total eye candy, i'm not talking about that. details that make the world feel alive and diverse, like characters having their individual faces (no 300 generic peasants, and they actually bothered to make various age-related models. no more old ladies with the bodies of a 20 yers old girls)
5- combat: is hard. at one point i switched to easy and slaughtered my way through. i imagine a lot of people that want challenge will find here what they want, but if you like your battles easy, that can be arranged too.
all in all, i am very impressed with the relative maturity of this title. i really felt all the dirt of "fantasy middle ages", not to mention rampant prejudice and brutality. i was highly skeptical before, but if someone asks again, no, i don't want to live in a fantasy setting, despite of dragons and magic :P
bottom line- if anyone cares, i recommend this title.
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Comments
For the maturity of the game, it's definitely there. It's one of the best games I've played in a long time.
But yes, fantastic game!
What bothered me about W2 was its length and size. If I remember correctly W1 had 5 Chapters plus Epilogue/Prologue, while W2 had only 3 chapters and no Epilogue. Locations also seemed smaller in size.
Another thing, even though the game started as PC exclusive, I think authors had consoles in mind from the beginning. Controls, Camera, Inventory, Aspect Ratio(before patched) were a bit consolized. I didn´t mind those things(except inventory).
But it is still absolutely great game, which presented medieval fantasy world in different fashion.
I, as a lady, approve fully of the "sex cards"! They were -beautiful-... And truely nice eyecandy. Then again, I'm one strange finn.
But back to the games theirselves. I am absolutely in love with the Witcher-series, from books to the games. Finished both Witcher 1 & 2, and even though I liked the combat more in Witcher 2, I must say that the Rolling around all the time (or spamming Quen) felt -really- cheap. Well, the Parrying was a good alternative, until they made it drain stamina, which made it useless in a fight (rather spam igni & that force push than parry.)
Also, the immersion factor in it was amazing. The world felt far more "real" than what any other game has provided for me. And I of course approve of Geralt, a great character, even though I prefer having the freedom of creating my own (but that wouldn't work, since this is the story of Geralt.)
Summary: There are plenty of RPGs which don't let you make your own character.
PS. Now... If Witcher 2 would've had multiplayer, it would probably be my favourite RPG instead of NWN2.
PPS. I never enjoyed the combat in Witcher 1. But the storytelling, the world and all the other things sure made it worth playing. Lets not forget the Amazing soundtrack!
Yeah I really have to agree with @scriver on this one. By your logic, Planescape: Torment wouldn't be an RPG. Which would be ironic as many consider it to be one of the best RPGs of all time, if not *the* best (although on this forum I would guess most would probably bestow that honour on BG before PST).
@scriver: I guess that makes sense. Yet you cannot really call it a roleplaying game as it might be difficult to imagine a pre-set character's personality and mindset. Also, why a male protagonist? Would it really have influenced the story that much if you were to have your own character instead of Geralt? I'm honestly just wondering.
And I actually I don't know how your "eyecandies" decrease fluidity of gameplay or worsen the story or how it make the story less interesting. In the world created by Sapkowski there was only 1 female witcher (witcherin?) and it was in very very special circumstances. So I guess it could be stretching it too far in this fantasy world.
Also it is about the profession that is almost extinct. I think they have chosen him because he is one great kickass even between witchers. But I also think that it would be better if you could create your own character instead of taking Geralt when you know the ending of his story in the Witcher saga (books).
Big spoiler of the book:
Edit about the game:
About the main subject: recently there was extended plotline with "Extended Edition" which was free to download for everybody that bought the game for PC, actually all DLC made by authors was available for free download. So the game was bit lengthened. But game is still rather short one (Witcher 2). But still there are 2 different paths to take: and those paths are almost totally different especially if you are asking about roleplaying (basically: you can help elves or humans that are on the opposite sides of the conflict) and its like two different second chapters. Also soon there will be adventure editor for witcher 2 (there is beta now).
And I also find this game really great and except main character this is really nice expansion of the world.
sex is mostly softcore porn like, and it is not required, you can avoid sleeping with anybody, because sex is mostly a fleeting pleasure for a witcher without any permanent base, or as a comic relief in few instances (philippa comes to mind), alhough you can have a relationship also.
so, before you jump to any conclusions about the game you haven't played, @Kitteh_On_A_Cloud, mature means that game does not shy away from filth. people sometimes f*** and do not make love, are sexist, are racist and are rapists, game does not depict those acts as desirable or pleasing, they just are, and you can mostly distance or participate at your own leisure. most of the time i felt like characters are repulsive, or behave like total dicks, but i did not feel game is trying to stuff it down my throat. i think in reality, our own history was much worse.
geralt as a character is fine IMO, sure, that means less options, but the game is not worse for it. look at planescape torment if you don't know what i'm talking about.
and for the end, i did not play witcher one, but i saw a few sex cards and i find all this commotion around them immature. they do nothing for me, but if those cards would depict men, i would gladly collect a few. i enjoy sex and sometimes sex is for fun and pleasure, and i want to see it in products that label themselves "mature", even if its not the obligatory marriage-binding shag after eleborate 10+ lovetalks. my point- female or gay players will not find the same amount of satisfaction in this game from sex/love parts, but since the geralt is fixed character, that cannot be changed.
what really aggravates me, it's the fact that violence will hardly provoke a bat of an eyelash, while sex or nudity regularly cause an uproar. talking about priorities, humanity.
well sex cards are just like playboy cards in mafia - you can have them. but only if you want.
In W2, there were sex scenes instead, but I remember like 3 and 2 of those were optional. And the scenes were cleverly presented, not just some porn video.
I thought the sex cards were a bit tacky, but also hilariously overblown in reviews, as was the whole sex issue. You can shag ladies in the game, but it's a tiny portion.
It's full of difficult decisions, the outcome of which isn't immediately apparent and can influence your game hours from when you make it. In The Witcher 2, it totally changes the second act, for example, while in The Witcher 1, it's mostly the ending act that's affected (but also many, many sidequests).
While you play Geralt, professional monster hunter, it has a Mass Effect-esque roleplaying vibe to it; Established character but you can choose how to play him. A strict professional who slays monsters without asking questions or do you dive into the deeper reasons and show occasional mercy? You can be a ladies man or otherwise social Witcher or live up to your outcast status and stay out of people's business. This isn't just a cosmetic choice with a few different dialogues but actually changes quests and the way people percieve you.
The quests themselves are occasionally simple (the ones plucked from the Witcher Job board are embarrasingly MMO style; bring 10 Drowner brains to the alchemist for example) but the main quests show depth and thought and very often a very grey moral area In The Witcher 2 for example you might have to help someone get rid of a curse placed on him by a dying witch. This isn't as simple as just casting Dispel, but you need to find the place of her death, investigate the how and why, the history of her and him, question witnesses that were present at her death, gather ingredients for the summoning of her spirit, items that are important to her and then do the work. You can do it without all (of some) of the legwork but if you don't know the facts, the spell might backfire.
I heartily recommend them. If you look past a few rather juvenile things (the sex cards in The Witcher 1, the giant boobs on the younger ladies, plenty of swearing to go around) they are two incredibly complex and deep RPG's.
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Why is The Witcher 2 called an RPG when you can't even have a custom character, though?
Because RPG stands for Role-Playing Game not Create Your Own Character Game. You have to roleplay with what you are given, which is kinda cool, cos' it's Geralt of Rivia and he will smack you bitches up. But seriously, a good roleplayer will roleplay to about anything, or anyone for that matter. We used to get ready characters from our DM sometimes just to make something new with our classic pen and paper RPG's (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay) and it worked - entertaining, fun and challenging at the same time. Besides, the story of W2 is great. You probably should read the original books to know the game world better.
@Kitteh_On_A_Cloud i think not a single reason you have given discredits witcher as a product that you might like. try it, i do not guarantee anything, if nothing else, try and watch the intro on youtube or something. and btw, again, sex is depicted as is in the real life IMO- a pleasurable activity that most people crave, sometimes being immature and silly about it. at times it is just sex, at time there are emotions involved, both are viable options in our world.
if by tasteful you mean only innuendo, and courting, then this will displease you i guess. to each his own.
Edit: And I have to add, I completely agree with @trinit
10 seconds of sex, something that almost every living person in all of humanity's lifetime will do at least once, and most, a lot more than once, something that's completely legal, something that's completely natural, something that every living species does, is the end of the world.
But killing? Totally Awesome. This whole game is just about killing. It's all about getting better weapons and better spells to kill. Getting better armour to survive longer to kill more. Movies are all about awesome scenes of killing. Books are all about gruesome murders. Best sellers! Everyone should watch it, everyone should read it, everyone should play it.
But 5 seconds of nudity or describe a breast and you're an immature and tasteless little pervert. *sigh*
In spite fight being action-oriented, it DOES require tactics. Witcher 2 is not, for example, Fable 3 where there is no difficulty in combat at all. If you charge without thinking at group of heavy-armored hostile men, spamming LMB in process, you're going to have your butt kicked. You have to dodge attack, and if you're not able to, you have to block them. You'll have to use Aard in order to lower defense of heavy opponents, Igni to deal damage, Quen to protect your butt, Yrden to hold enemies in place and Axii to turn enemies into allies for short ammount of times (sometimes it works really well). If you're know what are you going to face, you should use alchemy to prepare yourself for battle. Oh, not forgetting throwing weapons, bombs, traps or baits for monsters. This game, in spite what ignorants are saying, is tactical.
Other thing is that people doesn't generally get one thing, and this is world in The Witcher franchise*. This is neither Forgotten Relams, nor Middle earth from LoTR. It's a pretty dark and mature world, where men are often much worse than most victious monsters. In some ways, it is simillar to our world - you'll hear lot of swearing, sex seems to be everywhere, countries/kingdoms are often overroun by greedy bastards... Do I really have to keep going with this?
*Hardly anyone had ever read any Witcher novels I bet.
In general, Witcher 2 is one of the greatest game I ever played. Combat is entertaining and requiring your attention and skills. Story is great and non-linear (Enhanced Edition ties some loose ends) in terms of your decisions affects further gameplay. And it's mature, which is also a great assets.
Saying all of this doesn't make this game, or Witcher series perfect. There are, in fact, few things that are irritating me. But I'm not going to write about this right now.
PS. Regards to zwadek for using Harold the Ghoul as the avatar.
I do not however mind people disliking the game. That's their problem I suppose.
i consider witcher as the best "modern" cRPG. well, i liked the story in the first installment more (i think it was more complex) and i think it was less linear than in W2 (also with more pop-cultural humorous references) but the combat system was to easy and just... boring.
of course W2 has its flaws, but it reminds me of, what i call "true RPG":
- it has more roleplaying dialogues than any other modern game - i can express my character in many ways. its nothing like in PST, where there was a dozens of dialog lines, but better than anything else nowadays. for me, the roleplaying is reflected mostly in dialogs. in this matter, in my opinion, fallout 1 and 2 are superior than BG1 and 2, and planescape: torment is superior than F1 and 2. writing something like that in bgee forum can be suicide but still...
- characters are quite deep and complex (more in W1, than W2), so no more "copy and paste" NPCs like it was in skyrim.
- most quests can be done in more than one ways (sadly, all "go and fetch" task were quite dissapointing in W2 - just like board quests in DA:O)
- the world and decisions are not black or white, but a wide pallete of gray
- it has an "adult" world, just like in fallouts. sex, prostitution, drugs, slavery, political games etc
- combat is quite difficult and rewarding. no blind-fighting, especially in low levels
- customisation of main character is acceptable - it requires some planning but it can change your witcher into a killing machine
summing all up - witcher isn't best cRPG, but it is best what i can get nowadays.
The storytelling is wonderful, with plotgaps appearing only if you didn't finish a quest or two, that being your fault. I would say it's so nicely done that it subtly forces you to play it a couple of time differently just to get the bigger picture and understand what occurs behind the scenes. As the game has 2 wildly unique paths you can follow (and from those branching with multiple endings per path) but you can only go with a single one per playthrough so that puts you in the position of deciding to play it multiple times, a very nice and refreshing touch from CDP Red.
As said above, nothing is good or bad, it just is without leaving a sour taste after finishing it, in my mind a lot of games wanted to achieve the same but got lost in the plot and a mess emerged.
The graphics are top notch, the art wonderful and the world feels alive, the hubs are populated and you feel like you are in the middle of things.
You can continue TW2 with the savegame from TW1, transferring some choices from the previous title into the current one without the problems you could encounter from DA:O to DA2...like dead people being alive, gaps and all that mess...and you can all agree that is not easily done as we've seen many examples of that.
In my mind, (even if you do not agree, this is just a personal opinion and it should be treated as such) both TW1 and TW2 are light years ahead of the DA and/or ME series, I agree those had potential but they fell short on the delivering part.
I would recommend the game to anyone who has not tried it, but careful, the difficulty is great more so if you do not patch the game, I can't remember the last game that was so frustratingly hard in battles, the alchemy stuff is there for a reason and it brings a new meaning to preparation before battle.
Thumbs up to the OP, I quite agree
i find them great, it's my best fantasy series. novels are set in "dark fantasy" world, where magic is quite rare (something like in LoTR, maybe a little more). its like in "our" world, so you will find there presecutions (eg. elves), slavery, threason, cruelty, opression, greed etc.
witcher himself is a quite cynical man, so specyfic kind of humor is also present.
try "Something Ends, Something Begin" which contains series of shorter stories and read one of them - i can ensure you that you'll enjoy it