Swashbuckler/Fighter Build
GandalfPortraitGuy
Member Posts: 206
So, I had to use cheap tactics to defeat Sarevok. In fact, I lost to him seven times before finally whupping him. Funny that magic missiles work on him, isn't it?
I'm a level 7 Swashbuckler, maybe level 8 by now.
19 strength
19 dexterity
17 constitution
14 intelligence
14 wisdom
10 charisma
I fully intend on switching from Swashbuckler to fighter at level 10. +3 armor class, +2 to hit/damage and 10 levels of thief skills. . .
Anyone like my plan?
I'm a level 7 Swashbuckler, maybe level 8 by now.
19 strength
19 dexterity
17 constitution
14 intelligence
14 wisdom
10 charisma
I fully intend on switching from Swashbuckler to fighter at level 10. +3 armor class, +2 to hit/damage and 10 levels of thief skills. . .
Anyone like my plan?
0
Comments
But unfortunately you do not have the stats for what I would suggest, which would be Swshy dualled to Mage.
Regardless, with the stats you present, I suggest dualling to fighter would be ill-served as well.
Remaining as a Swashy, you;
- can continue levelling Thief abilities
- have a significant inherent reduction to ac as you level
- have an inherent increase to thaco, and
- will have access to HLAs of a Thief which of course will include "Use Any Item" should you elect to roll into BG2.
- you probably will have other fighters in your group that are far more proficient at melee and tanking than you, make use of them for what they were intended and utilize your PC for what THEY were intended, worlds greatest Thief!!!
m2c
then I dual him over to fighter, and start going ham on the shortbow, so then I can start using gesen, but the real kicker is using tuigan with the quiver of plenty, with 5 proficiencies in shortbow, 21 levels in fighter, you get 5 attacks per round, have a very nice thac0 ( mine is usually around -16) and can deal out some killer damage, plus if need be can do some awesome damage in melee
fighter still get better to hit than swashbucklers do, so have at least 10 levels of swashy going into fighter is just more icing on the cake ( although I would still suggest going to level 11, not only for the trap setting, but by the end of the day, whether you dual at level 10 or 11, you still can only hit level 39 in your fighter class)
and although you do miss out on use any item, what you get instead is hardiness and greater whirlwinds which are both amazing abilities ( hardiness will help make up for your lower HP, and greater whirlwind comes with no to hit or damage penalties unlike whirlwind)
but it all comes down to how you are using your character whether it be melee or ranged, I find swash/fighter combos to be great at ranged combat, but not to shabby in the melee combat area either with that +3 bonus to AC, +2 bonus to hit/to damage ( although your HP will be a bit lower since bonus CON will not go pass your rogue table, but hey, its still more than a thief will have anyway)
and one other thing to note: heavier armor will disable all your thief abilities except for detection and trap setting, so much sure to take that into consideration when building your character ( I did have a swashbuckler in ToB with full plate, but it can be quite annoying taking it off every time you want to disarm a trap or pick a lock)
but in the end, I save give 'er gas, and have fun with the build, its an interesting build that helps put a little pizazz into your game which makes it both unique and fun to play
For extra cheesiness, start a fighter and dual into a Swashbuckler kit (it is possible via an EEkeeper cheat).
At your Lvl the HP-part is almost done. Profiency, ok maybe the Fighter has an small edge here, but its nothing compared to the 5 ACBonus you miss doing that. And thanks to Wear all Items you disable the Weapon/armoradvantage of the Fighter too. You even gain one, because you can wear for example pure Paladin or Barditems too.
So I cant really see the point in dualing the Swashi into Fighter, besides maybe seeking for an Fighters Highlevelability. But even so i wouldnt take the downtime and the AC loss. I mean the Thief HLAs are strong too.
Normally you turn a Fighter (or more an kit like Kensai or Wizardslayer) into a Thief but not the other way arond.
the main thing for ranged combat is the to hit roll and attacks per round, even though -5 thac0 for a ranged swashbuckler looks cool, you are still going to miss big boss characters ( especially so with whirlwind's sweet to hit and damage penalties) and better yet, less attacks ( looking at 4 on average) but with a swashbuckler into fighter, im reaching -16 thac0 or so, which is enough to hit those big bosses on 2s, get to use greater whirlwind ( no penalty to hit or damage) and im pumping 5-6 attacks on average ( I never use improved haste, just normal haste)
so in the end, pure swashbucklers and fighters -> thieves, are great builds and such, the one thing they lack is to hit and attacks per round, but at the same time my thieves are doing ranged 99% of the time, and I found it best to do the swashbuckler -> fighter to be the most effective
Yes, sarevok57 gives valid points for a Swashy>fighter build but I also know he has played the game as many times as I've cooked eggs for breakfast.
Since Swashy types even get 'Whirlwind' they lose little staying in type.
Should the OP elect to pump points into traps as a Swashy (I do) he may find a play-style totally unique to the typical fighter "see bad guy = thump with stick". And since Swashys don't gain benefit to back-stab, I suggest traps are a GREAT alternative!
Yeah, Bounty Hunter is king of traps but a Swashy with his great stats and access to HLA traps can leave a world of hurt in his wake and defend himself quite well with UAI combo'd with his unique abilities.
ALL thief kits are great and for the most part, well balanced in their uniqueness, I personally enjoy running them to full extent to take advantage of all they are capable of. There are enough multi and duals in the game already to play with IMHO.
m2c
Swashbuckler 10 -> Fighter = +2/+2
For ranged I know which I prefer ...
Penalty on pure Swash whirlwind is -4/-4 but Swashbuckler bonuses cap at level 40 which is a total of +9/+10 which is a net penalty of +0/-1 during whirlwind. THAC0 is another equation but thief HLAs can help there ...
First of all, most of us love powerful characters and we've all played them... but at some point you do crave something new, something different, and all those calculations of who is more powerful and omnipotent no longer satisfy.
Sometimes it's even more fun imagining stuff about the character than having top thac0s or AC etc...
(but you do get it all with this build anyway)
You can simply think of some story in your mind, just like with Imoen starting out as a thief and then becoming a mage ... so can your hero start out as a swashbuckler, who decided to enhance his combat skills even further and learn to become a fighter/archer. Then use your brain trying to make it a good build, even if it has disadvantages in comparison to other builds and kits etc.
When you've played all kinds of classical, traditional choices - you start looking for new interesting combinations that bring satisfaction in other ways.
The first time I created my Swash->Fighter, I was looking for an Archer(Ranger) equivalent, who could challenge Archer through versatility, gaining some of that extra damage and bow grand mastery while being more effective in close combat (by having extra AC and melee grand mastery), when such situations arise. Additionally, I got thief skills that enriched game play and made it more solo efficient.
So when you talk about all your HLA's, pure Swashbucklers etc. is there any point to it? So what if it's better?I mean, is a pure Archer 'better' than some OP kits? Is a pure Cleric stronger than Fighter(or Berserker)/Cleric? Why do people play Kensai/Druid or Shapeshifter? Shapeshifting sucks, but people enjoy it nonetheless.
I've played Swash>Fighter throughout BG, SoD, IWD, SoA, ToB
I've had enormous fun with traps, bows and different types of arrows, simply using arrows +x is no fun, when I would get bored with one game style, I would switch to dual wield (I've picked long swords for their abilities), and even single weapon style for crit chance increase, just to have all kinds of fun. (or you could just go with 2HW)
It's not all about HLA, don't you get bored of same old stuff? How many times do you have to constantly play with F/M/T, Kensai->Mage? C/M? F/D? Berserker->C? etc.
People make characters like dart assassins or axe wielders just for certain feelings.
To finalize this, S->F is not only fun on his own for solo, but he can play few roles in your party.
- Want a good archer that can stand his own ground in close combat? Assign this task to S/F and put him at the back.
-Want a semi-tank with good melee DPS? Assign him to 2nd-4th spot in party.
-Locks? Traps? Illusions? Job done!
Who do you need then in your party then? Tank, divine, arcane? All other roles can be taken by Swash>Fighter.
My last play through BG, SoD, IWD, SoA, ToB was with a Dragon Disciple as a power seeking evil sorcerer who had a personal Blackguard bodyguard, solo champion of Black Pits with two-handed sword, and a kind of right-hand mercenary, who would do all different jobs for him, obviously the Swash/Fighter.
The omnipotent evil sorcerer would pick locations or challenges to uncover new powerful knowledge, treasures etc. He would let his S/F do all the work, while standing in wait, somewhere in the area, guarded by the Black Pits champion Blackguard.
Swash/Fighter with boots of haste would disarm all traps, unlock all doors and chests, kill all 'lesser threats' with traps, a bow or two swords, eliminate packs with detonation arrows, sometimes using biting and dispelling arrows etc etc, collect loot and put it in his bags for potions, scrolls, gems, and equipment, he would represent the sorcerer in all kinds of communication, since he is also a very charismatic 'right hand'.
Only in cases of right hand's failure to overcome certain threats, would he then seek help and bring the enemy to his master. Not even then would the sorcerer lift his finger. The Blackguard would cut down everything into pieces, rip all to shreds.
Yet sometimes, when both of sorcerer's lackeys would disappoint their master in an inability to deal with a certain threat, would he then step in himself, pushing both of them aside (they do not take part in the battle they were failing). Then he demonstratively obliterates the enemy by himself in a gruesome way.
(Oh, it is so much more fun and pleasure when you're doing most of the hard work with your S/F, and rarely on occasion you annihilate everything with a sorcerer, it just gives that extra feeling of immense power, that you do not feel when playing a mage constantly. It's like, if you live by the beach - it's not so exciting and special, unlike when you once or twice a year go on a vacation by the beach.)
Obviously in BG its only Sorcerer and Swashy, the beginning of power seeking. Sorcerer is taking active part in all the fights with Swashy until the completion of BG. Sorcerer learns of Black Pits champion from Baeloth (maybe he was even spectating in the arena, whatever), but he can not acquire champion's services atm, he is not yet powerful and rich enough
Then they proceed to SoD with a hired blackguard. After that to IWD. In SoA, after spending some time with a Blackguard champion, Swashy decides to learn from him)
Sorcerer is not too happy about this additional burden, although he understands that it is for the best in the long run, so he has to acquire temporary services of a local thief. Swashy would have to pay out from his own pockets for this.
Swashy learns fighting skills (dual swords or two-handed, your pick) from sparring with Blackguard and/or continues to practice bow skills (he did have a lot of experience in using bows throughout BG1).
Well, that's about it!
Even if I got around 90 points, then I'd dump wisdom
Switch at 11th level, DOT traps and max open locks/find traps/set traps. You can do it in SoD, so when you get to BG2 there is less work to do with your fighter levels. I switched at 15 for masochistic reasons
Then I got grand mastery in Short Bows and Long Swords, adding to my Dual x3, Single x2. Well, Single can be swapped for two-handed, then long sword grand mastery would have to be swapped to two-handed sword or halberd.
Obviously, don't put any points in both weapon proficiencies that you'd want to have grand mastery later on, while you are Swashy.
You can put 2 points in anything that you will be using now, but I personally don't see any point in having 2 points in any additional weapon proficiency.
Quarterstaff for crushing dmg maybe?
Otherwise put 2 points in single handed, after maxing two weapon style.
ah, I love huge comments like this, tons of great info and excitement of the poster can be found in them, but if you think this is a big post, you should see the whopper I did on this discussion:
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/58869/power-gaming-still-viable#latest
Actually, I love reverse kits in general, maybe because I've played this game so much, I seek new excitements, also playing pure classes too.
I also have great fun with shadowdancer>fighter, druid>fighter for wolves, bears etc, or werewolf>fighter for thac0, plus thac0 items and even gauntlets of crushing and we have a decent werewolf
but now I would have to say that the swash->fighter class would have to be my new favourite dual class