Icewind Dale EE just doesn't seem to be as popular with the "dps" crowd as I'd imagine it would be, is all....
That's because the very simplistic AI makes combat trivial, even on HoW mode. As there is no SCS-equivalent for IWD, most ambitious players (me included) very quickly lost interest.
Yes you have more enemies etc., but they're still dumber than a slice of bread. Plus there's WAY less emphasis on spellcasting than in BG2, which makes already easy fights even more trivial because hardly anything happens other than I-whack-the-first-thing-I-see-forever.
I actually disagree with this. IMO IWD tells a great story. The difference is, your character is very far from civilization and your movement is constricted. So it is a more claustrophobic story; but still a very good one.
By contrast, SoA is pretty crappy when it comes to story - a huge chunk of the game (chapter 2) consists of random disconnected vignettes which are very uneven and, taken on their own, pretty pathetic.
This, and the fact that, at the end of every quest you can ask your quest giver whether he knows of Irenicus or the Cowled Wizards and the answer is always "Sorry I cannot help you with this." which in the end forces you to choose a camp between Shadow Thieves and Bodhi's Guild, while it would have been interesting to get the possibility, through you gleaned here and there, to make something of your own.
*WARNING* This is quite the novel, so go grab something to drink/eat go to the bathroom, because you will be here for a while, so if you have an hour to kill, this is the place and time
First off, sorry everyone for missing out on the previous comments, but im tired from work and I saw power gaming, and of coarse I AM the power gamer extraordinaire so I had to give my input on the subject of coarse , and by all means, these are my opinions of power gaming and how I play my power gaming teams
ever since I actually learned how the bg stats worked ( actually understanding what dexterity/constitution is and what they actually do, the thac0 system and such) I became a power gamer hardcore
but the way I do it might be different than how other people do it, every time I start a new game, I think to myself; what classes/races/(npcs)/team make up I want, and then I go through the game seeing how strong I can actually make them
9/10 I usually make my own team, because A) a custom team is way stronger, and there is a lot more team customization to choose from adding more flavor to your team make up
so usually when I play, I have a few different ways on how I do things in a run ( especially more so for bg1) my options when I play runs are:
- how fast can I beat the game; - doing all the quests possible ( except for a select few that are pointless and really tedious to do) - how much gold can I obtain before I reach sarevok ( without grinding/exploiting) - how many kills can I get before I reach sarevok ( again without the grind/exploit) - how much of the map can I possibly uncover without using clairvoyance or explorearea();
so to make my power game runs still fun, my usual objective is to blaze through the game doing some of the above ( lately its been all of them, except for the kills one im not to interested at the moment) but the odd time if I just want to get my character through I will just do the first objective and lol right through the game
now when it comes to difficulty, I always play on insane, infact even when I first started playing the game, not knowing anything about the mechanics, my neighbour had the game set on insane, and I didn't notice ( my guys died A LOT, and I never had money since I was using it all to revive chums and spend money at the temple to heal them afterwards) but with that being said, I don't play with the SCS mods because I find them boring as balls, in my opinion it slows the game down to much ( for me) with tedious tactics and crazy powerful mages and such and I just don't have time for that silliness, even though I had 1000s of play throughs of both bg1 and 2, my guys still die every once in awhile, because im very lazy when I play, and I always have extreme faith in my team where I think they can win, so I just let the dice do their thing, back in the old days bg2 used to be able to be cranked to 90 fps, and I loved it, if the EE games could go up to that cap I would embrace it, as I said, I love to zoom through the games, even though the average bg1 run takes me about 12 hours to do every quest/explore all the areas - not including the new NPC stuff ( still working on that run, but that one is at home so it will be over a week before I can go back to it) and even bg2 only takes me maybe 12 hours to do everything ( since the game is way bettered organized in its layout) and ToB probably takes me 10, I remember one time I had an entire run from bg1 all the way to the end of ToB and started that team Friday, and fought melissan on sunday, doing all the quests/ exploring all the areas along the way ( ah the good ol' days of 90 fps)
so based on all that, I basically play this game like im a robot, RP? lulz, I never RP, I've played this game so many times that RP just makes no sense to me, I cant find myself to do it because I already know how everything is going to happen, so the RP perspective just doesn't work for me, but one thing that intrigues me is the power gaming perspective of it, and I think the main reason why I love power gaming is because I love numbers and statistics, my brain is just mathematically programmed that way, so that probably explains why I play this game like a robot, barrelling through it like a bawss kicking butt, and retrieving awesome stats and such
and then comes the segment that I sometimes ponder for a hour or so before I even begin a new game: what is the most power game party I can make? and when I do this pondering I have some criteria for what makes the most effective power game group:
- #1 HP, everyone in the group needs great HP, they need as many as they can muster/effectively can have, so melee classes are great in combat, but HP lackings, so I superb HP team is a healthy team ( especially on insane when the baddies deal double damage) - #2 To Hit, now I know this sounds silly because all melee classes will have great to hit, but what about the other classes? clerics, rogues, mages? compared to their melee counterpart they cant even hit broad sides of barns so everyone is going to need great to hit so they can kill things faster - #3 To Damage, again sounds silly but at the end of the day when your debuffed secondary characters are attacking, are they dealing the most effective damage they can? in a true power gaming party everyone needs huge to damage, this basically makes up the term way power gaming even exists - #4 Attacks per round, this one is very important, even .5 or 1 full attack per round difference can be a huge difference in how fast you kill baddies, and how fast you are dealing damage - #5 AC, I like to optimize my AC to be as awesome as possible, so when ToB comes along I always give my nitz guys the axe of the unyielding and the yamnato scimitar, it may be a small bonus, but this is what power gaming is, just the very extra tiny little boost to make you that much more badass, without the big metal unit, I aim to have my melee guys around -15 AC for all 3 of them if I can - #6 Saving Throws, my melee guys have to have ballin' saves or at least immunities to the most annoying affects in the game, realistically the only useful saves you need are save vs death and save vs spell, even in SoA I like to have both of these saves below 0, just to add to the godliness
and then the 2 most important ones: - #7 Are they strong without spell buffs? if a team requires spell buffs to attempt to kick some butt, then in my opinion its not a true power gaming team, yes characters can destroy baddies into oblivion with buffs, but the problem is; what if they get dispelled? then those once powerful characters are now mediocre at best, so at #8 a true power game fueled team needs to start kicking butt at day 1 and not require spells or buffs to be efficient - #9 How fast can the team finish the game? This is probably the most important when it comes to choosing your power gaming team, if you can finish every quest in the game and beat the game in 10 hours, then you have a power gaming team, if you finish every quest in the game and it takes 20 hours, then your team is a little luck luster
now with all that being said you might be thinking; whats my opinion on blades? since arguably they are basically the most powerful class in the game, and my opinion is; im not a fan of them at all, I've had a dozen or so play throughs with blades, and I hated every single one, the latest one I had was last year, and I could only make it to level 21 before I never played that play through again, even though blades kick butt and all that jazz, you need to babysit them for a while before they start becoming useful, and again, they really need to spells to start rocking the socks off of enemies and it just slows down gameplay when you have to tediously buff to make them survive in combat ( especially at lower levels) so blades, not a fan, I know how powerful they can be and all that fun jazz, but when it comes to my power game formula, they don't quite make the cut,
then there are 2 other melee classes as well that might be part of the power gaming group: swashbuckler and monk, now with swashbuckler, they are kind of like the bard in the sense that they take a little while before they really start getting good ( usually around level 15 or so) but the problem is; their to hit still isn't that great ( even with the killer +8 bonus at level 40, they still use thief tables for their base thac0) and again HP aren't that great either, even though i love to play swashbucklers every once in a while, they still dont fit in my power game criteria for most optimized melee chum, now monk on the other hand, I've been starting to give them some love to them, although again they take a little time to get going, the thing is, once they are at a decent level ( usually around level 15) they start kicking some serious butt, they fill in all the power game criteria except for HP, and the fact they take a little time to get awesome, but once there, not to shabby
so with that novella of knowledge, the next thing is; what is my opinion on what makes the most optimized power game party in the bg series? glad you asked ( even though you probably didn't ask, but screw it im doing it anyway )
First, our team needs 6 chaps, the more the merrier plus the more you have the faster that you kill the baddies and save the day and all that good stuff, so let me start by going backwards on how I do it with each character:
CHAR6 - kensai/mage
This should be a no brainer but there is a caveat here that really REALLY makes them excel at butt kicking for goodness, and that caveat is the throwing dagger, which they can still use, and in SoA there is a really REALLY nice throwing dagger which makes them deadly in ranged combat, even with the belt of hill giant strength, 5 pips in dagger, and 9 levels in kensai with firetooth, and they really start to tear it up in ranged combat, this is already on top of the fact that they are a mage, so once they empty their spell book, the can easily go to ranged combat and continue mopping the floor of bad guy filth, so starting in bg1 as a kensai all the way to SoA and hit level 9, then dual class over to a mage, and stop growing up levels until 5, and then once you can skip over to 10 ( which doesn't take that long in SoA at all) you just watch the baddies melt into bad dude goo, plus they don't lose out on any spell potential for being a level 9 fighter, they still grow to level 30 as a mage, and a level 31 mage has no perks over a level 30 mage, so even better, when it comes to the most effective ranged efficient power game mage this is definitely the one
CHAR5 - swashbuckler/thief
A class combination that I found out in IWDEE, and to my surprise did it ever started kicking some serious butt, I always used to think that a level 7/13 fighter dualed over into a thief was way better ( mostly because of UAI) but how wrong I was, first I take my swashbuckler from bg1 and then bring it over into SoA, then I dual at level 11 ( since that is the level that the thief traps get their upgrade) and switch right on over to fighter, what I realized is that when I do it this way ( swash->fighter over fighter-> thief) is that my swash/fighter combo has WAY better to hit, WAY better to damage, and even though I don't have UAI I still have the same AC anyway thanks to those 11 level of swash giving me that +3 bonus, and coincidently my HP are no different than starting off as fighter going into a thief than a swash going into a fighter, plus the fighter pool is way better than the thief pool when it comes to dealing some sweet damage quick ( hello greater whirlwind) and better yet hardiness ( which really helps out for all those meleeing thieves out there) now when it comes to weaponry what do I choose? short bows, sound silly, but there is a killer short bow out there, and some people may be surprised on which one it is; the tuigan bow, why is this one the ultimate killer? not only for that sweetski +1 to damage but because it gives you that killer extra attack per round, and no matter what damage calculation I did that extra attack per round always come out on top ( I used to think that strong arm was the best bow with its crazy +3 to damage, but tuigan takes the cake) so when it comes to making a killer thief that uses a bow to slay the evil doers effectively and efficiently I'd say this is definitely the way to go
CHAR4 - fighter/cleric
every since the first time I play anomen years and years ago, I found out the power of fighter dual classing, and ever since then, this is usually how I make my clerics, now for the longest time I used to grow to level 7 as a fighter than dual over to cleric, but now adays, I go aaaaaaaaaaaall the way to level 13, yes it may seem a bit of a treck, but its actually not all that bad, one thing I realized is that if your front line is competent you don't need a cleric to back them up, so your "future cleric" stands in the back wailing bullet stones with alarming accuracy and damage, and since I always run to spell hold as soon as possible, my "future cleric" hits level 13 in the mind flayer dungeon, then its time to dual over to cleric, but I stop at level 7 ( so then I don't waste proficiency points) and then once I know I can hit level 14 I unless the beast and not only do I have a cleric the brings the apocalypse done on my enemies I get all that wonderful spell casting with that killer 21 wisdom (22 ToB) and what weapon do I use for this machine of destruction child of bhaal? the sling of coarse, with clerics hitting the 20s without breaking a sweat ( belts, holy symbol, spells) dealing over 30 damage a hit with a little rock is quite impressive, now the thing you might be wondering is; but almighty and wise sarevok57 that is a long time to wait to make your killer cleric, doesn't that go against one of your power gaming rules? and the answer I say is; sort of in a way not really? the reason why I say this is because as I said before, if you have competent melee guys, a cleric is not needed ( besides that is what healing potions are for) and the time you need to summon in some chums to help you out, your mage can just easily do it in the meantime, plus even though you don't have a cleric, you still have an ace fighter tearing it up from long range with a sling, even though slings looks silly, if built right they can be deadly, as I said before, I used to grow to level 7 before I dualled over, but the one time I tried going to level 13 before I dualed over, I never looked back, having that hair more HP and APR in the medium/long haul makes quite the difference and again, spell potential is not lost, so why not do it if you can? remember power gaming requires every bit of use no matter how small without sacrifice, so of you might not understand my reasoning and logic in this build, but for me it works, so that is why in my opinion If you want a cleric that deals out sling death at a minigun rate, the level 13 fighter dual over is the way to go
CHAR1-3 - ?
ah the real bread and butter of the power game elite, who your melee guys are really determine how efficient your team is at being a mobile chainsaw cutting throw the bad homes wood, over the years I always tried to figure out what the absolute best combination of melee chums are to make my power team perfect, but I've never been 100 % satisfied with the combination I make, I hit 99 %, or even 99.9 % but not quite 100% unfortunately there is no melee guy that hits that power game sweet spot for me when it comes to melee, so for the next canidates I wil list off my opinions on meleers
List of Important categories
#1 HP #2 To Hit #3 To Damage #4 Attacks Per Round #5 AC #6 Saving Throws #7 No Buffing Required #8 Speed at which they start kicking buttocks #9 How fast they get through the game #10 Useful abilites
Ah the berserker, the number one class when it comes to melee power gaming, great stats all around starts kicking butt straight out of the gate and being a half-orc with the 19 str/con really makes for the extra godliness, the only drawback they have is that their saves aren't that great but that's when berserk comes in and LOLS all over saving throw requirements, but on the flip side, dwarves and gnomes have some killer saves, especially when it comes to the save vs death/spell department, this is more important in bg1 than bg2, so this also gives those races some bang for their buck, but the dwarf will take a small AC hit ( and even though its tiny, remember a true power game must make 100 % full optimization) and the gnomes don't quite hit the same HP as the dwaven and half orc fellows, and even though all these differences are small, its still enough to make it so the impact gives each of those races a chance ( when I make power gaming berserkers im about 45% 3 half orcs, 45% 3 gnomes, or 10 % 3 dwarves)
Now when it comes to melee damage, the kensai does it best, not only do they have killer to hit/ to damage, the one huge flaw they have? AC, now of coarse there are ways to make it tolerable, but get ready for some micro managing ( especially at lower levels) and because of that micro management that is why I believe they are not quite up to par with berserkers, in the end the berserker can get right in the fray of combat without a worry or care, kensai on the other hand, is going to have some issues, now if only your main homes is the kensai and you have some different AC melee back up, then they might prove to be a bit better, but when it comes to the end result they are just a little shy of being the ultimate warrior, they may be great one on one, but against hordes they can get overwhelmed quite quickly, although deadly, damaging enemies are deadly to them as well
The good ol' barbarian, I remember the first time I ever played bg2 they were one of my favourite classes, with their concept and all, and although they look like extreme power houses, they are a bit watered down, first, their AC isn't that great ( because of armor selection) although its not as abysmal as the kensai's, they have some great to hit/ to damage potential with rage, but rage has one huge flaw; its low ass duration, 5 rounds ( especially at frame rate 60) is basically the duration of an eye wink, although the ability is still quite amazing ( with lots of immunities and huge STR and CON increase) that small duration really hurts it, but on the flip side, when it comes to taking damage, these guys are great at it, but unfortunately when it comes to dealing damage, in the beginning its not bad, but they fall behind their full attack per round faster fighter brethren, so even though they look like pure cut power houses, they are basically watered down versions of the fighter ( to quote the SoA perfect guide)
The first thing I can say about these guys is; friggin' lol buddy, a completely broken class if I have ever seen one, their perks are way higher than their disadvantages, but ironically enough, they still don't spread the annihilation that the berserker/kensai family does, now with those 2 silver medals, its more of a silvery gold sort of deal, but again power gaming is about every single ounce of awesomeness possible so if there is even the tiniest of doubts, its the one grade lower, but the thing to note about these guys is that they are like barbarians except better in every way; they take damage way better, they have awesome saves so they don't need rage/berserk, and they have better AC although, because they cant hit grand mastery, they fall just a hair short of the awesomeness of berserker, if they could hit grand mastery, than the dwarven defender by far, uncontested lay up to the basket would have been the best melee power game character, but they cant, so that still gives the berserker some lay way, and even though they hit that .5 attack per round less in SoA, its still enough to make a note of, but in retrospect they are still quite amazing, my LoB run in SoA has 3 DD on it so I guess the DD isn't all that bad afterall
Now some might think that the swashbuckler might stand a good chance at this but the problem is, they take some time to build up, their HP are crap, their To Hit is kind of garbage for a long while, but once they finally get in gear ( around level 15 or so) they aren't so bad, and once they hit level 25+ then they really start to wreck shop, but the problem is, they still take a while to get there, they still are forever squishy ( I've never had a swashbuckler hit over 200 HP without tenser's transformation with my normal gear setups) although coincidently I do find the class fun to play every now and again, it really adds some pizazz to the game, but when it comes to all out power gaming, they just don't quite hit the sweet spot, especially the fact that they take a while to get there, so that is why I don't think swashies can be number 1
Now that is quite a few platinums, and for good reason, the monk once optimized can really start shreading on baddies, but the monk has 2 fundamental flaws; their HP are kind of garbage, and they have the same swashbuckler weakness; they kind of take a while to become awesome, realistically they don't really become useful till level 12, then they become good at level 15, and then when they hit level 18, that is when the carnage really starts to begin and that's when they really start to shine, but that's a long time before they become awesome, but I always though maybe, that if I made the main guy a monk and had 2 berserkers or some such as back up, in the end it might not make that much difference, but power gaming is still power gaming and that bronze for HP really hurts, figuratively and actually, and I have had quite a few play thoughs where I have played a monk and have seen how awesome they can become, so that's why I take some consideration if I have just 1 monk ( especially the main guy) that it might work out, but again it takes quite a while for them to become awesome, but once its time, the baddies will perish
Ah look at those stats, now before people start coming after me with pitch forks and torches let me explain my controversy first; now with the stats being said, it doesn't mean that the blade is a terrible class, some people argue that it is one of the most powerful melee classes in the game, and know what, that may actually be true, BUT, it takes time before that happens, and coincidently enough, it still takes quite awhile, now, of coarse it all depends on how you play the blade, usually it starts by casting a bunch of defensive spells to make yourself invincible basically and then an ability or 2 for some offensive and then watch the slaughter begin, but that is also the blade's main weakness, realistically it needs those spells to be useful, if a blade has no spells, are they still awesome? the answer to that is hell no, infact, even with spells, the blade really doesn't start to shine until it can cast level 6 spells ( which I believe is level 16) but even with that the blade has some flaws, and this is the reasoning for the bronzes; first of all, garbage HP, sharing the same weakness as the swashbuckler these guys are squishy and critical hits hurt, it wont be until level 16 once you get tenser's transformation to double them, which is a much needed boost, but again that is still a long time to wait, next; their to hit is quite trash, even with offensive spin, buddy's transformation and a belt of frost giant str and their to hit is STILL not stellar, you can have all the to damage in the world, but if you have no to hit, than your damage is just for the lols, and this was the problem that I saw time in again and again when I was playing the blade, their to damage is just balls awful, it takes so pretty stellar equipment/spells and levels before your to hit starts to kick butt, and even though in theory they can deal some heavy damage, its all for not when you cant greater whirlwind, although you have improved haste, that just yets adds another buff to the buff pile sandwich that blades need to cast to make them good, while a fighter type needs no buffs for those 10 attacks per round, and remove/dispel magic really really hurts blades ( especially remove magic, which in my game - or at least with 1.3- worked on my guys without fail regardless of my level all of my stuff got dispelled, most annoying) but the main weakness of the blade is the fact they NEED spells to be awesome, and they are another class that takes quite awhile to be amazing, so that's why they get such a bad rep, are they a bad class per se? by all means no, but when it comes to the true power gaming criteria they lack in it hard, while your still fiddling around in the cloakwood mines, my berserker has already beaten the game and is in chateau irenicus turning goblins into soup
When it comes to the rangers and paladins they all fit in the same category, these classes aren't power gaming power house classes, the fact that they cant hit grand mastery ( except the ranger of coarse but we are talking about melee here) that really hurts their APR, plus they have slow level progression, which hurts their to hit a little bit and HP as well, plus their to damage will be lower being specialized as well, even though I have had bagillions of play throughs with paladins and a mediocre amount with rangers they still aren't the pure forces of destruction that fighters dish out, but even with that being said, sometimes its fun to try out power game teams with these guys, but in the end they always fall flat, whatever they can do, a fighter type can do better, whether its 1,2,3,4 or 5 the fighters just excel there where paladins/rangers fall behind a bit, and even though the inquisitor has some AMAZING abilities, it still falls behind on power gaming statistics ( and of coarse the cavalier is hilariously unbalanced, man do I ever love playing that class, friggin' lol) and another big flaw; can only be good ( except for blackguard) and because of that good restriction they cant get some awesome hell trail abilities without becoming fallen, and even though black guards can be evil, they still fall short to a fighter when it comes to pure combat prowess
FIGHTER MULTICLASS ( Not including dual class, which I have stated above, dual classing kicks butt)
Now the fighter multiclass combos look great when it comes to power gaming ( all those options and such) but there are some major flaws with these combos: first, HUGE XP required for level ups, sometimes this can cripple your mean green killin' machines, and half the time because of that huge XP requirement it can take awhile before they get their killer spells to make them awesome, now we have 3 options we can go basically, Option 1- fighter/mage type; these guys are basically like blades, although I don't know which one is better ( might even go with the fighter/mage being better) but the problem with these guys is that they have low HP for melee combat, usually you are not wearing armor so you need to buff like mad to make up for your lousy AC, and again, buffing up to make yourself nearly invincible but slowing down game play big time, although they can become quite powerful indeed, again it takes time/ the right equipment and all that jazz when all a warrior needs is some platemail and a big sword with no muss of fuss to start slaying non goodies, fighter mages take a little time before that starts happening Option 2- fighter/cleric type; these guys are not all that bad actually, but they have some flaws that make them fall a little short of the Armageddon bringing chaps, the huge XP needed to grow up levels with make your to hit/HP lower, they need spell buffs to catch up to your single class fighters and even that will take some time to get some buffs, and if their stuff gets dispelled, it can cripple them quite badly, plus their APR wont be that great compared to the grand masters, and that will also make the damage a little less as well, although cleric types can hit 25 STR, so can fighters, and just being multi class in general is kind of bad mid/late game, they are great for bg1, but near the beginning of bg2, they start to lag behind your single class companions Option 3- fighter/thief types; this option is basically here for the lols, because realistically if you really want to power game this up, you need to be using your backstab, A LOT, but the problem with that is the micromanagement needed to make it effective and the levels you need to grow for stealth, really make this strategy fall behind, although one time I played a half orc fighter/thief that used a two handed sword and wore platemail and had a blast with it, I put all my points in trap setting and detect illusions and it was actually quite effective, but was it still an all out power house? it wasn't bad, but still couldn't compete with a single classed fighter in terms of raw physical power, so although backstab sounds cool, in my opinion it just takes way to long to be effective, while you are attempted to backstab your way through faerun, the time you reach mulahey, im already in chapter 6 basically, so that's where our backstabbing friends fall behind
So, in conclusion, if you read this entire thing, you are clearly a beast ( I swear I hold the beam dog record for largest post with the most relevant information without it being spam of filler) so I commend you on that, next this is of coarse my opinion on how I see power gaming in the BG series, and basically the way on how I bench mark power gaming characters is usually how effective are they are completing the game the quickest way possible ( set with the parameters of exploring all areas/ doing all the quests, etc..) but with that being said, I think the way one how I see power gaming in the BG world makes sense, and granted by how my bench marks work, that's how I see power gaming as a whole
and with that I say good night
( and yes you are welcome with that entire run on sentence without a single period in that whole post, but hey, I find this stuff exciting so no time to stop and take a break )
Comments
Yes you have more enemies etc., but they're still dumber than a slice of bread. Plus there's WAY less emphasis on spellcasting than in BG2, which makes already easy fights even more trivial because hardly anything happens other than I-whack-the-first-thing-I-see-forever.
First off, sorry everyone for missing out on the previous comments, but im tired from work and I saw power gaming, and of coarse I AM the power gamer extraordinaire so I had to give my input on the subject of coarse
ever since I actually learned how the bg stats worked ( actually understanding what dexterity/constitution is and what they actually do, the thac0 system and such) I became a power gamer hardcore
but the way I do it might be different than how other people do it, every time I start a new game, I think to myself; what classes/races/(npcs)/team make up I want, and then I go through the game seeing how strong I can actually make them
9/10 I usually make my own team, because A) a custom team is way stronger, and
so usually when I play, I have a few different ways on how I do things in a run ( especially more so for bg1) my options when I play runs are:
- how fast can I beat the game;
- doing all the quests possible ( except for a select few that are pointless and really tedious to do)
- how much gold can I obtain before I reach sarevok ( without grinding/exploiting)
- how many kills can I get before I reach sarevok ( again without the grind/exploit)
- how much of the map can I possibly uncover without using clairvoyance or explorearea();
so to make my power game runs still fun, my usual objective is to blaze through the game doing some of the above ( lately its been all of them, except for the kills one im not to interested at the moment) but the odd time if I just want to get my character through I will just do the first objective and lol right through the game
now when it comes to difficulty, I always play on insane, infact even when I first started playing the game, not knowing anything about the mechanics, my neighbour had the game set on insane, and I didn't notice ( my guys died A LOT, and I never had money since I was using it all to revive chums and spend money at the temple to heal them afterwards) but with that being said, I don't play with the SCS mods because I find them boring as balls, in my opinion it slows the game down to much ( for me) with tedious tactics and crazy powerful mages and such and I just don't have time for that silliness, even though I had 1000s of play throughs of both bg1 and 2, my guys still die every once in awhile, because im very lazy when I play, and I always have extreme faith in my team where I think they can win, so I just let the dice do their thing, back in the old days bg2 used to be able to be cranked to 90 fps, and I loved it, if the EE games could go up to that cap I would embrace it, as I said, I love to zoom through the games, even though the average bg1 run takes me about 12 hours to do every quest/explore all the areas - not including the new NPC stuff ( still working on that run, but that one is at home so it will be over a week before I can go back to it) and even bg2 only takes me maybe 12 hours to do everything ( since the game is way bettered organized in its layout) and ToB probably takes me 10, I remember one time I had an entire run from bg1 all the way to the end of ToB and started that team Friday, and fought melissan on sunday, doing all the quests/ exploring all the areas along the way ( ah the good ol' days of 90 fps)
so based on all that, I basically play this game like im a robot, RP? lulz, I never RP, I've played this game so many times that RP just makes no sense to me, I cant find myself to do it because I already know how everything is going to happen, so the RP perspective just doesn't work for me, but one thing that intrigues me is the power gaming perspective of it, and I think the main reason why I love power gaming is because I love numbers and statistics, my brain is just mathematically programmed that way, so that probably explains why I play this game like a robot, barrelling through it like a bawss kicking butt, and retrieving awesome stats and such
and then comes the segment that I sometimes ponder for a hour or so before I even begin a new game: what is the most power game party I can make? and when I do this pondering I have some criteria for what makes the most effective power game group:
- #1 HP, everyone in the group needs great HP, they need as many as they can muster/effectively can have, so melee classes are great in combat, but HP lackings, so I superb HP team is a healthy team ( especially on insane when the baddies deal double damage)
- #2 To Hit, now I know this sounds silly because all melee classes will have great to hit, but what about the other classes? clerics, rogues, mages? compared to their melee counterpart they cant even hit broad sides of barns so everyone is going to need great to hit so they can kill things faster
- #3 To Damage, again sounds silly but at the end of the day when your debuffed secondary characters are attacking, are they dealing the most effective damage they can? in a true power gaming party everyone needs huge to damage, this basically makes up the term way power gaming even exists
- #4 Attacks per round, this one is very important, even .5 or 1 full attack per round difference can be a huge difference in how fast you kill baddies, and how fast you are dealing damage
- #5 AC, I like to optimize my AC to be as awesome as possible, so when ToB comes along I always give my nitz guys the axe of the unyielding and the yamnato scimitar, it may be a small bonus, but this is what power gaming is, just the very extra tiny little boost to make you that much more badass, without the big metal unit, I aim to have my melee guys around -15 AC for all 3 of them if I can
- #6 Saving Throws, my melee guys have to have ballin' saves or at least immunities to the most annoying affects in the game, realistically the only useful saves you need are save vs death and save vs spell, even in SoA I like to have both of these saves below 0, just to add to the godliness
and then the 2 most important ones:
- #7 Are they strong without spell buffs? if a team requires spell buffs to attempt to kick some butt, then in my opinion its not a true power gaming team, yes characters can destroy baddies into oblivion with buffs, but the problem is; what if they get dispelled? then those once powerful characters are now mediocre at best, so at #8 a true power game fueled team needs to start kicking butt at day 1 and not require spells or buffs to be efficient
- #9 How fast can the team finish the game? This is probably the most important when it comes to choosing your power gaming team, if you can finish every quest in the game and beat the game in 10 hours, then you have a power gaming team, if you finish every quest in the game and it takes 20 hours, then your team is a little luck luster
now with all that being said you might be thinking; whats my opinion on blades? since arguably they are basically the most powerful class in the game, and my opinion is; im not a fan of them at all, I've had a dozen or so play throughs with blades, and I hated every single one, the latest one I had was last year, and I could only make it to level 21 before I never played that play through again, even though blades kick butt and all that jazz, you need to babysit them for a while before they start becoming useful, and again, they really need to spells to start rocking the socks off of enemies and it just slows down gameplay when you have to tediously buff to make them survive in combat ( especially at lower levels) so blades, not a fan, I know how powerful they can be and all that fun jazz, but when it comes to my power game formula, they don't quite make the cut,
then there are 2 other melee classes as well that might be part of the power gaming group: swashbuckler and monk, now with swashbuckler, they are kind of like the bard in the sense that they take a little while before they really start getting good ( usually around level 15 or so) but the problem is; their to hit still isn't that great ( even with the killer +8 bonus at level 40, they still use thief tables for their base thac0) and again HP aren't that great either, even though i love to play swashbucklers every once in a while, they still dont fit in my power game criteria for most optimized melee chum, now monk on the other hand, I've been starting to give them some love to them, although again they take a little time to get going, the thing is, once they are at a decent level ( usually around level 15) they start kicking some serious butt, they fill in all the power game criteria except for HP, and the fact they take a little time to get awesome, but once there, not to shabby
so with that novella of knowledge, the next thing is; what is my opinion on what makes the most optimized power game party in the bg series? glad you asked ( even though you probably didn't ask, but screw it im doing it anyway
First, our team needs 6 chaps, the more the merrier plus the more you have the faster that you kill the baddies and save the day and all that good stuff, so let me start by going backwards on how I do it with each character:
CHAR6 - kensai/mage
This should be a no brainer but there is a caveat here that really REALLY makes them excel at butt kicking for goodness, and that caveat is the throwing dagger, which they can still use, and in SoA there is a really REALLY nice throwing dagger which makes them deadly in ranged combat, even with the belt of hill giant strength, 5 pips in dagger, and 9 levels in kensai with firetooth, and they really start to tear it up in ranged combat, this is already on top of the fact that they are a mage, so once they empty their spell book, the can easily go to ranged combat and continue mopping the floor of bad guy filth, so starting in bg1 as a kensai all the way to SoA and hit level 9, then dual class over to a mage, and stop growing up levels until 5, and then once you can skip over to 10 ( which doesn't take that long in SoA at all) you just watch the baddies melt into bad dude goo, plus they don't lose out on any spell potential for being a level 9 fighter, they still grow to level 30 as a mage, and a level 31 mage has no perks over a level 30 mage, so even better, when it comes to the most effective ranged efficient power game mage this is definitely the one
CHAR5 - swashbuckler/thief
A class combination that I found out in IWDEE, and to my surprise did it ever started kicking some serious butt, I always used to think that a level 7/13 fighter dualed over into a thief was way better ( mostly because of UAI) but how wrong I was, first I take my swashbuckler from bg1 and then bring it over into SoA, then I dual at level 11 ( since that is the level that the thief traps get their upgrade) and switch right on over to fighter, what I realized is that when I do it this way ( swash->fighter over fighter-> thief) is that my swash/fighter combo has WAY better to hit, WAY better to damage, and even though I don't have UAI I still have the same AC anyway thanks to those 11 level of swash giving me that +3 bonus, and coincidently my HP are no different than starting off as fighter going into a thief than a swash going into a fighter, plus the fighter pool is way better than the thief pool when it comes to dealing some sweet damage quick ( hello greater whirlwind) and better yet hardiness ( which really helps out for all those meleeing thieves out there) now when it comes to weaponry what do I choose? short bows, sound silly, but there is a killer short bow out there, and some people may be surprised on which one it is; the tuigan bow, why is this one the ultimate killer? not only for that sweetski +1 to damage but because it gives you that killer extra attack per round, and no matter what damage calculation I did that extra attack per round always come out on top ( I used to think that strong arm was the best bow with its crazy +3 to damage, but tuigan takes the cake) so when it comes to making a killer thief that uses a bow to slay the evil doers effectively and efficiently I'd say this is definitely the way to go
CHAR4 - fighter/cleric
every since the first time I play anomen years and years ago, I found out the power of fighter dual classing, and ever since then, this is usually how I make my clerics, now for the longest time I used to grow to level 7 as a fighter than dual over to cleric, but now adays, I go aaaaaaaaaaaall the way to level 13, yes it may seem a bit of a treck, but its actually not all that bad, one thing I realized is that if your front line is competent you don't need a cleric to back them up, so your "future cleric" stands in the back wailing bullet stones with alarming accuracy and damage, and since I always run to spell hold as soon as possible, my "future cleric" hits level 13 in the mind flayer dungeon, then its time to dual over to cleric, but I stop at level 7 ( so then I don't waste proficiency points) and then once I know I can hit level 14 I unless the beast and not only do I have a cleric the brings the apocalypse done on my enemies I get all that wonderful spell casting with that killer 21 wisdom (22 ToB) and what weapon do I use for this machine of destruction child of bhaal? the sling of coarse, with clerics hitting the 20s without breaking a sweat ( belts, holy symbol, spells) dealing over 30 damage a hit with a little rock is quite impressive, now the thing you might be wondering is; but almighty and wise sarevok57 that is a long time to wait to make your killer cleric, doesn't that go against one of your power gaming rules? and the answer I say is; sort of in a way not really? the reason why I say this is because as I said before, if you have competent melee guys, a cleric is not needed ( besides that is what healing potions are for) and the time you need to summon in some chums to help you out, your mage can just easily do it in the meantime, plus even though you don't have a cleric, you still have an ace fighter tearing it up from long range with a sling, even though slings looks silly, if built right they can be deadly, as I said before, I used to grow to level 7 before I dualled over, but the one time I tried going to level 13 before I dualed over, I never looked back, having that hair more HP and APR in the medium/long haul makes quite the difference and again, spell potential is not lost, so why not do it if you can? remember power gaming requires every bit of use no matter how small without sacrifice, so of you might not understand my reasoning and logic in this build, but for me it works, so that is why in my opinion If you want a cleric that deals out sling death at a minigun rate, the level 13 fighter dual over is the way to go
CHAR1-3 - ?
ah the real bread and butter of the power game elite, who your melee guys are really determine how efficient your team is at being a mobile chainsaw cutting throw the bad homes wood, over the years I always tried to figure out what the absolute best combination of melee chums are to make my power team perfect, but I've never been 100 % satisfied with the combination I make, I hit 99 %, or even 99.9 % but not quite 100% unfortunately there is no melee guy that hits that power game sweet spot for me when it comes to melee, so for the next canidates I wil list off my opinions on meleers
List of Important categories
#1 HP
#2 To Hit
#3 To Damage
#4 Attacks Per Round
#5 AC
#6 Saving Throws
#7 No Buffing Required
#8 Speed at which they start kicking buttocks
#9 How fast they get through the game
#10 Useful abilites
BERSERKER
1- Gold ( Half-Orc/Dwarf) Silver (Gnome)
2- Gold
3- Gold
4- Gold
5- Gold ( Half-Orc/Gnome) Silver ( Dwarf)
6- Silver ( Half-Orc) Gold ( Dwarf/Gnome)
7- Platinum
8- Platinum
9- Platinum
10- Platinum
Ah the berserker, the number one class when it comes to melee power gaming, great stats all around starts kicking butt straight out of the gate and being a half-orc with the 19 str/con really makes for the extra godliness, the only drawback they have is that their saves aren't that great but that's when berserk comes in and LOLS all over saving throw requirements, but on the flip side, dwarves and gnomes have some killer saves, especially when it comes to the save vs death/spell department, this is more important in bg1 than bg2, so this also gives those races some bang for their buck, but the dwarf will take a small AC hit ( and even though its tiny, remember a true power game must make 100 % full optimization) and the gnomes don't quite hit the same HP as the dwaven and half orc fellows, and even though all these differences are small, its still enough to make it so the impact gives each of those races a chance ( when I make power gaming berserkers im about 45% 3 half orcs, 45% 3 gnomes, or 10 % 3 dwarves)
KENSAI
1- Gold ( Half-Orc/Dwarf) Silver (Gnome)
2- Platinum
3- Platinum
4- Gold
5- Bronze
6- Silver ( Half-Orc) Gold ( Dwarf/Gnome)
7- Bronze
8- Platinum
9- Silver
10- Silver
Now when it comes to melee damage, the kensai does it best, not only do they have killer to hit/ to damage, the one huge flaw they have? AC, now of coarse there are ways to make it tolerable, but get ready for some micro managing ( especially at lower levels) and because of that micro management that is why I believe they are not quite up to par with berserkers, in the end the berserker can get right in the fray of combat without a worry or care, kensai on the other hand, is going to have some issues, now if only your main homes is the kensai and you have some different AC melee back up, then they might prove to be a bit better, but when it comes to the end result they are just a little shy of being the ultimate warrior, they may be great one on one, but against hordes they can get overwhelmed quite quickly, although deadly, damaging enemies are deadly to them as well
BARBARIAN
1- Platinum ( Half-Orc/Dwarf) Gold (Gnome)
2- Gold
3- Gold
4- Silver
5- Silver ( Half-Orc/Gnome) Bronze ( Dwarf)
6- Silver ( Half-Orc) Gold ( Dwarf/Gnome)
7- Gold
8- Gold
9- Gold
10- Gold
The good ol' barbarian, I remember the first time I ever played bg2 they were one of my favourite classes, with their concept and all, and although they look like extreme power houses, they are a bit watered down, first, their AC isn't that great ( because of armor selection) although its not as abysmal as the kensai's, they have some great to hit/ to damage potential with rage, but rage has one huge flaw; its low ass duration, 5 rounds ( especially at frame rate 60) is basically the duration of an eye wink, although the ability is still quite amazing ( with lots of immunities and huge STR and CON increase) that small duration really hurts it, but on the flip side, when it comes to taking damage, these guys are great at it, but unfortunately when it comes to dealing damage, in the beginning its not bad, but they fall behind their full attack per round faster fighter brethren, so even though they look like pure cut power houses, they are basically watered down versions of the fighter ( to quote the SoA perfect guide)
DWARVEN DEFENDER
1- Platinum
2- Gold
3- Gold
4- Silver
5- Silver
6- Platinum
7- Platinum
8- Gold
9- Gold
10- Platinum
The first thing I can say about these guys is; friggin' lol buddy, a completely broken class if I have ever seen one, their perks are way higher than their disadvantages, but ironically enough, they still don't spread the annihilation that the berserker/kensai family does, now with those 2 silver medals, its more of a silvery gold sort of deal, but again power gaming is about every single ounce of awesomeness possible so if there is even the tiniest of doubts, its the one grade lower, but the thing to note about these guys is that they are like barbarians except better in every way; they take damage way better, they have awesome saves so they don't need rage/berserk, and they have better AC although, because they cant hit grand mastery, they fall just a hair short of the awesomeness of berserker, if they could hit grand mastery, than the dwarven defender by far, uncontested lay up to the basket would have been the best melee power game character, but they cant, so that still gives the berserker some lay way, and even though they hit that .5 attack per round less in SoA, its still enough to make a note of, but in retrospect they are still quite amazing, my LoB run in SoA has 3 DD on it so I guess the DD isn't all that bad afterall
SWASHBUCKLER
1- Bronze
2- Silver
3- Gold
4- Bronze (unless built VERY specifically -> Platinum)
5- Platinum
6- Silver
7- Silver
8- Bronze
9- Silver
10- Platinum
Now some might think that the swashbuckler might stand a good chance at this but the problem is, they take some time to build up, their HP are crap, their To Hit is kind of garbage for a long while, but once they finally get in gear ( around level 15 or so) they aren't so bad, and once they hit level 25+ then they really start to wreck shop, but the problem is, they still take a while to get there, they still are forever squishy ( I've never had a swashbuckler hit over 200 HP without tenser's transformation with my normal gear setups) although coincidently I do find the class fun to play every now and again, it really adds some pizazz to the game, but when it comes to all out power gaming, they just don't quite hit the sweet spot, especially the fact that they take a while to get there, so that is why I don't think swashies can be number 1
MONK
1- Bronze
2- Gold
3- Platinum
4- Platinum
5- Platinum
6- Platinum
7- Gold
8- Silver
9- Gold
10- Platinum
Now that is quite a few platinums, and for good reason, the monk once optimized can really start shreading on baddies, but the monk has 2 fundamental flaws; their HP are kind of garbage, and they have the same swashbuckler weakness; they kind of take a while to become awesome, realistically they don't really become useful till level 12, then they become good at level 15, and then when they hit level 18, that is when the carnage really starts to begin and that's when they really start to shine, but that's a long time before they become awesome, but I always though maybe, that if I made the main guy a monk and had 2 berserkers or some such as back up, in the end it might not make that much difference, but power gaming is still power gaming and that bronze for HP really hurts, figuratively and actually, and I have had quite a few play thoughs where I have played a monk and have seen how awesome they can become, so that's why I take some consideration if I have just 1 monk ( especially the main guy) that it might work out, but again it takes quite a while for them to become awesome, but once its time, the baddies will perish
BLADE
1- Bronze
2- Bronze
3- Gold
4- Bronze ( unless built very specifically -> Platinum)
5- Silver ( with UAI -> Gold)
6- Silver
7- Bronze
8- Bronze
9- Bronze
10- Platinum
Ah look at those stats, now before people start coming after me with pitch forks and torches let me explain my controversy first; now with the stats being said, it doesn't mean that the blade is a terrible class, some people argue that it is one of the most powerful melee classes in the game, and know what, that may actually be true, BUT, it takes time before that happens, and coincidently enough, it still takes quite awhile, now, of coarse it all depends on how you play the blade, usually it starts by casting a bunch of defensive spells to make yourself invincible basically and then an ability or 2 for some offensive and then watch the slaughter begin, but that is also the blade's main weakness, realistically it needs those spells to be useful, if a blade has no spells, are they still awesome? the answer to that is hell no, infact, even with spells, the blade really doesn't start to shine until it can cast level 6 spells ( which I believe is level 16) but even with that the blade has some flaws, and this is the reasoning for the bronzes; first of all, garbage HP, sharing the same weakness as the swashbuckler these guys are squishy and critical hits hurt, it wont be until level 16 once you get tenser's transformation to double them, which is a much needed boost, but again that is still a long time to wait, next; their to hit is quite trash, even with offensive spin, buddy's transformation and a belt of frost giant str and their to hit is STILL not stellar, you can have all the to damage in the world, but if you have no to hit, than your damage is just for the lols, and this was the problem that I saw time in again and again when I was playing the blade, their to damage is just balls awful, it takes so pretty stellar equipment/spells and levels before your to hit starts to kick butt, and even though in theory they can deal some heavy damage, its all for not when you cant greater whirlwind, although you have improved haste, that just yets adds another buff to the buff pile sandwich that blades need to cast to make them good, while a fighter type needs no buffs for those 10 attacks per round, and remove/dispel magic really really hurts blades ( especially remove magic, which in my game - or at least with 1.3- worked on my guys without fail regardless of my level all of my stuff got dispelled, most annoying) but the main weakness of the blade is the fact they NEED spells to be awesome, and they are another class that takes quite awhile to be amazing, so that's why they get such a bad rep, are they a bad class per se? by all means no, but when it comes to the true power gaming criteria they lack in it hard, while your still fiddling around in the cloakwood mines, my berserker has already beaten the game and is in chateau irenicus turning goblins into soup
PALADINS/RANGERS
1- Bronze
2- Silver
3- Silver
4- Silver
5- Silver
6- Gold
7- Gold
8- Gold
9- Gold
10- Platinum
When it comes to the rangers and paladins they all fit in the same category, these classes aren't power gaming power house classes, the fact that they cant hit grand mastery ( except the ranger of coarse but we are talking about melee here) that really hurts their APR, plus they have slow level progression, which hurts their to hit a little bit and HP as well, plus their to damage will be lower being specialized as well, even though I have had bagillions of play throughs with paladins and a mediocre amount with rangers they still aren't the pure forces of destruction that fighters dish out, but even with that being said, sometimes its fun to try out power game teams with these guys, but in the end they always fall flat, whatever they can do, a fighter type can do better, whether its 1,2,3,4 or 5 the fighters just excel there where paladins/rangers fall behind a bit, and even though the inquisitor has some AMAZING abilities, it still falls behind on power gaming statistics ( and of coarse the cavalier is hilariously unbalanced, man do I ever love playing that class, friggin' lol) and another big flaw; can only be good ( except for blackguard) and because of that good restriction they cant get some awesome hell trail abilities without becoming fallen, and even though black guards can be evil, they still fall short to a fighter when it comes to pure combat prowess
FIGHTER MULTICLASS ( Not including dual class, which I have stated above, dual classing kicks butt)
1- Bronze
2- Silver
3- Silver
4- Silver
5- Silver
6- Silver ( unless a shorty -> Platinum)
7- Bronze
8- Silver
9- Silver
10- Platinum
Now the fighter multiclass combos look great when it comes to power gaming ( all those options and such) but there are some major flaws with these combos: first, HUGE XP required for level ups, sometimes this can cripple your mean green killin' machines, and half the time because of that huge XP requirement it can take awhile before they get their killer spells to make them awesome, now we have 3 options we can go basically,
Option 1- fighter/mage type; these guys are basically like blades, although I don't know which one is better ( might even go with the fighter/mage being better) but the problem with these guys is that they have low HP for melee combat, usually you are not wearing armor so you need to buff like mad to make up for your lousy AC, and again, buffing up to make yourself nearly invincible but slowing down game play big time, although they can become quite powerful indeed, again it takes time/ the right equipment and all that jazz when all a warrior needs is some platemail and a big sword with no muss of fuss to start slaying non goodies, fighter mages take a little time before that starts happening
Option 2- fighter/cleric type; these guys are not all that bad actually, but they have some flaws that make them fall a little short of the Armageddon bringing chaps, the huge XP needed to grow up levels with make your to hit/HP lower, they need spell buffs to catch up to your single class fighters and even that will take some time to get some buffs, and if their stuff gets dispelled, it can cripple them quite badly, plus their APR wont be that great compared to the grand masters, and that will also make the damage a little less as well, although cleric types can hit 25 STR, so can fighters, and just being multi class in general is kind of bad mid/late game, they are great for bg1, but near the beginning of bg2, they start to lag behind your single class companions
Option 3- fighter/thief types; this option is basically here for the lols, because realistically if you really want to power game this up, you need to be using your backstab, A LOT, but the problem with that is the micromanagement needed to make it effective and the levels you need to grow for stealth, really make this strategy fall behind, although one time I played a half orc fighter/thief that used a two handed sword and wore platemail and had a blast with it, I put all my points in trap setting and detect illusions and it was actually quite effective, but was it still an all out power house? it wasn't bad, but still couldn't compete with a single classed fighter in terms of raw physical power, so although backstab sounds cool, in my opinion it just takes way to long to be effective, while you are attempted to backstab your way through faerun, the time you reach mulahey, im already in chapter 6 basically, so that's where our backstabbing friends fall behind
So, in conclusion, if you read this entire thing, you are clearly a beast ( I swear I hold the beam dog record for largest post with the most relevant information without it being spam of filler) so I commend you on that, next this is of coarse my opinion on how I see power gaming in the BG series, and basically the way on how I bench mark power gaming characters is usually how effective are they are completing the game the quickest way possible ( set with the parameters of exploring all areas/ doing all the quests, etc..) but with that being said, I think the way one how I see power gaming in the BG world makes sense, and granted by how my bench marks work, that's how I see power gaming as a whole
and with that I say good night
( and yes you are welcome with that entire run on sentence without a single period in that whole post, but hey, I find this stuff exciting so no time to stop and take a break