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Which Fighter/Mage is the better Fighter/Mage?

Well, I think that most of us can agree that a Fighter/Mage of any type is a contender for the most powerful overall character in this game. But... which version of the Fighter/Mage is the best? A friend and I were have this very same discussion/argument, and I thought I'd open it up to the comunity. My friend is of the opinion that that at epic levels, nothing beats the Half-Elf Multi-Class Fighter/Mage, namely do to the Timestop-Whirlwind Combo he likes to unleash on most bosses. Well, while I agree that thirty attacks on some poor shmuck can be problematic, I contered with this one, the Kensai/Mage. Preferably a Kensai/Mage that Duel-Classed at Level 13, for the extra Warrior Bonus attack. With Grand Mastery in a weapon of Choice, (Long Swords for me. Dual-Wielding The Answer and Angurvadal, the +5 version, is just not right) and Duel-Wielding two weapons, Haste, and do a Ki Attack, you can get 7 or 8 attacks in. (It's 7 or 8 because I can't remember if Haste doubles your off-hand attacks as well. I think it does in this game but...) And even if it is only say the 7 attacks, all of them would be done at max damage, doing more overall damage then ten normal attacks. And if you did it three times in a Timestop like my friend likes to, 21-24 Max Damage attacks VS. 30 normal damage attacks, with say longswords doing on average 5 damage on the die verses the maximum 8 on every roll, and you can see that that is well, actually close in damage potential, 5X30 being 150 and 8X21 being 168 and 8X24 being 196, my Kensai/Mage still wining on offence, but let's look at defense. Well, my friend's Half-Elf Fighter/Mage can wear the best, in both our opinions, Fighter/Mage's armor, Aslyferund Elven Chain +5. You just can't beat the 0 AC and while at the level you get it, immunity to normal weapons is still nice. If nothing else, it makes you immune to MOST enemy arrows. While on the other hand, while still not that bad, in fact it has better... bonuses for a mage, the best a Kensai/Mage can get in the Robe of Veca, and then you have the delema of giving that to your Kensai/Mage or your main Mage. The Next best you can do is a Robe of Alignment, which is vastly inferior to the Robe of Veca in bonuses. The same 5 AC though. So, yeah, my Kensai/Mage loses out in defense. It also needs to be pointed out that if you go the Kensai/Mage route I went, then you need 2,750,000 EXP to even start doing it, which is pretty much at the end of Shadows of Amn, while the Half-Elf Fighter/Mage is a Fighter/Mage right out of the block. Still, you just can't beat a Kensai/Mage for sheer Damage output. So, I open up this argument to you, which Fighter/Mage is the better one? Or do you have one that beats both these ideas? Ladies and Gentlemen, start you arguments now!
Skarose

Comments

  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
    Skarose
  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    So how do you define better? What is the setup?
    Artona
  • SkaroseSkarose Member Posts: 247
    edited May 2016
    Multi class fighter/mage, starts out dominating the game in BGEE and ends dominating the game in ToB. The multi class has no down time. The multi class is so powerful that I consider the racial choice superfluous.

    Gnome has excellent saves, but you're already playing the god class, you'll be making your character nigh invulnerable anyways, but hey you're playing demi-god shorty style.

    Half Elf, look at me I've got angst, am I elf? am I human? Don't worry about it kid, you're a fighter/mage!

    Elves, has a small bonus with swords and bows, excellent dex, immunity to sleep and charm also looks very elegant. All very nice but again doesn't really mean a whole hell of a lot when you compare those bonuses to what their character class can do.

    The multi class can wear helms, armor, gauntlets and use all manner of missile weapons if needed. He also can dominate BGEE from the beginning with a sleep spell and wands.

    I feel like a Kensai/Mage dual spends two-thirds of the game telling the multiclass "Just wait for it, eventually I'm going to be more powerful than even you!" Which may be true for a very brief point in Shadows of Amn, for 6% of the total gameplay, the Kensai Dual barely nudges past the multiclass, until viola
    Fighter HLAs and then there is no comparison, Multiclass again becomes more powerful!

    "It is known..."
    ~Codex of the Bladesinger
    [Deleted User]
  • AmmarAmmar Member Posts: 1,295
    Other said it well, the multi starts out more powerful and end up more powerful. The dual char has a window where is superior between regaining his first class and HLAs. The downtime is also a pain of the ass, unless abusing things like the scroll XP.

    As for the best F/M, it is the gnome. Excellent spells plus the bonus spell slots. With Blindness and Spook he has two powerful spells that benefit from the specialist saving roll penalty.
    Skarose
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    if you go for pure endgame no matter how to reach it i razor the face off the last 5 enemy's i meet stupid Build.
    21Kensai/22Mage

    now if you go the Serious routes you only have following Options.

    --1:Fighter7/Mage
    Gets that Half APR , decent HP , can Grandmaster 1 Weapon of Choice , has 2 spare pips for a weapon style and gets 1 Points in Quarter staffs. and is doable in BG1.

    later on has 2** for a offhand weapon (short sword or scimitar) and can reach with the half APR bracers and a +1 offhand weapon natural 5 APR, gets the highest caster Levels and fastest Spell progression in game.

    with THAC014 you will only get an improvement early TOB to 13.

    can be done as Berserker with no downside. (if you don't do range)
    can be done as kensai, but will give no benefit. (kensai 2dmg/2hit/2ac , bracers 1hit/2dmg, helm of balduran 1hit/1ac/critimmune/1saves/5hp) in the end you trade 1 kensai AC for 1saves/5hp and cit immunity. making that combo here inferior. in bg 2 you even get a half apr from the bracers.


    --2:Fighter 9/Mage

    same as the above but cant be done in BG1. gets 2THACO and a couple HP more, kensais get 1 extra to their bonuses.


    --3:Fighter 13/mage

    Full hp Progression. only really for solo runs an option since the downtime is shit. kensais are actually better now since the bracer APR would bring normal fighters to 4,5 apr making it a waste and even with helm of balduran the kensai comes out slightly ahead in stats.


    --4:Fighter/mage Multi.

    good from the get go , has lower spell level progression but fighter part keeps staying strong and results in best late game THAC0/HP , only downside is the slightly lower Spell level progression and a cap at lvl 20's while duals get up to 30's

    can be done as Gnome for Specialization and shortys
    or as elf for his fancy stuff.


    --5: Notable mention fighter 3/mage

    Basically just a mage with more weapon selection THAC0 is crap so melee is a bad option, but he can grand master a single ranged weapon and has 1 Staff and 2 Two-hand-weapon fighting if that aint work.
    easier start then a pure mage and has a option to do more than fiddling thumbs between throwing spells.

    berserker and kensai not an option.




    in the end i prefer the Multi and the Fighter7/mage (Not the kensai variation!) the first is good from the get go the second is doable in BG1 , i want my character feel as my character as soon as i can not a century later.



    and a word on kesnais , highly overrated. unless you play the lvl 13 one they are sub par to the normal fighter. and getting a figher13/mage is a pain in the ass specially as kensai.


    Skarose
  • deathgeonousdeathgeonous Member Posts: 64
    Ok, I can see I lost the argument with my friend, and I'll have to tell him that. Also, while I will admit that I agree with most of what you said, ie, Multi-Class Fighter/Mage's of any type start off strong and just keep ramping it up, I still will argue that end game, a level 13 Fighter/Mid 20's+ Mage will kick more ass. More physical damage done and more spell slots. Still, it's such a pain in the ass to get to that, that it's almost not worth it in the long run, and I will admit that as well. Sure, you're god like for ToB, but your just average or even sub-par until then.

    So, yeah, I think my friend will just laugh and tell me the old 'I told you so' line, cause now I'm going to roll up an Elven Fighter/Mage. Since end game I'm going to be wielding two longswords, the Answer and Angurvadal, the +1 THACO with longswords is nice. As is the almost immunity to Sleep and charm. I'll take that over the Half-Elf's point of Con any day, seeing as we get just how many opportunities to buff Con in this game?

    Still, nice to see your guy's opinions on this topic.
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421

    Ok, I can see I lost the argument with my friend, and I'll have to tell him that. Also, while I will admit that I agree with most of what you said, ie, Multi-Class Fighter/Mage's of any type start off strong and just keep ramping it up, I still will argue that end game, a level 13 Fighter/Mid 20's+ Mage will kick more ass. More physical damage done and more spell slots. Still, it's such a pain in the ass to get to that, that it's almost not worth it in the long run, and I will admit that as well. Sure, you're god like for ToB, but your just average or even sub-par until then.

    So, yeah, I think my friend will just laugh and tell me the old 'I told you so' line, cause now I'm going to roll up an Elven Fighter/Mage. Since end game I'm going to be wielding two longswords, the Answer and Angurvadal, the +1 THACO with longswords is nice. As is the almost immunity to Sleep and charm. I'll take that over the Half-Elf's point of Con any day, seeing as we get just how many opportunities to buff Con in this game?

    Still, nice to see your guy's opinions on this topic.

    the problem is that a lvl 7 fighter 30s mage can just make himself a lvl 15 fighter in matters of THAC0 with tensers transformation. and you already can reach 5 APR unbuffed , so going all way to 13 isn't doing a thing aside slowing you down.

    as for the multis , you will notice the lack of spell progression hart.. a dual 7 can already cast Deva lvl9 at early ToB while a Multi still has lvl 7 spells..ohh yes your fighter part is slightly better but we are at tensers again making that point mute and that deva could solo the game being some sort of high level fighter cleric mage with a 15% instant kill sword , and im rather a stronger mage then fighter any day of the week.
    Artona
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