Dual-Class Grandmaster intend or Bug ?

DevardKrown

so i made a Pretty basic Fighter7 / Mage Dual

**** Bastard Swords
** Two Weapon Fighting
mage start * in Quarter Staffs

stopped progression of the mage at 5 , Hogged then up to 90k xp so i could jump in one go to lvl 8 Mage.
now comes the odd Part... i can set that lvl 6 Second mage * EVERYWHERE in the whole fighter weapon selection....but not as 5th point in bastard Swords.

is that a Bug , work as intend ? i am more curious than everything. and slightly bugged cause i want my extra half APR :P


EDIT : just tried other class combos neither Cleric or Thief allows the grand master point :O strange

magisensei

Maybe it is a bug and maybe it is not a bug assuming that beamdog actually fixed this exploit in the game.

Putting the 5th point and gaining grandmastery after dualing was always an engine exploit - it was never legal in the game (ad&d rules never allowed this) actually putting any point in your first class weapon proficiency is not allowed in ad&d rules but the engine was always bugged and allowed you this exploit. So has beamdog finally fixed this hole in the game to make dualing a bit harder if so, good for them.

What version of the game are you playing?

OUT51D3R

You have to be at least level 9 in your current class to place the 5th point in weapon mastery after dual classing.

mf2112

I just tested it with a new 7-F dualed to M in BG2 2.2, I could only start with 4 pips, then I had to get to 12th level mage (750K) to be able to put the 5th pip in the longsword. I went through every level, I did get another point as a mage but I couldn't use it for the long sword. Any other weapon but not the long sword until I went to 12th.

magisensei

How very odd - if this is a patch to fix the exploit it is really odd since as you said you could put it in later, if it is a bug from the new patch - how odd - and well they fix it so that you cannot put a point in the first class proficiencies or keep it like it is now or return it to what it was?

You might want to put this in the bug section for the latest patch.

DevardKrown

OUT51D3R said:

You have to be at least level 9 in your current class to place the 5th point in weapon mastery after dual classing.

well that's a bummer, ohwell have to wait till mage 12 then.

Chnapy

I'm guessing this was meant to ensure that fighters>cleric/druid/thief could no longer achieve Grandmastery in BG1, before pure fighters could. Although Druids might still be able to do it by saving their 8th level until they can jump straight to 9.

sarevok57

so, I just tested it out, and it is true, your second class must hit level 9 before you are allowed to have grand mastery, if you do the level 7 fighter into thief and hit level 8, it will not allow you to place a 5th slot into a weapon, but if you do a level 7 fighter then dual into druid, and wait until you hit level 9, then it will allow you to place that 5th slot into your weapon

GreenWarlock

Nice finding sarevok57 - thanks. That will be useful info for my next planned dart flinging build - although my plan would be to hit lvl 9 as a fighter before dualing if we have SoD on the Mac App store by then.

Do we know which patch introduced this change of behavior?

mf2112

It seems to matter which class you dual to and when it gets the next proficiency point. I wasn't able to use the point I got at 6 level mage for the 5th point in long swords, but I was able to use the point I got at 12th level to complete grandmastery. I would guess it is limited to the next proficiency point you gain after you surpass the prior class.

smeagolheart

so isn't this a bug? Can someone who understands what's going on make a redmine report?

http://redmine.beamdog.com/

mf2112

smeagolheart said:

so isn't this a bug? Can someone who understands what's going on make a redmine report?

http://redmine.beamdog.com/

Hard to say....I think according to 2e PnP rules you would not be able to add any proficiency points after dualing to a new class that didn't allow that weapon, and maybe not at all past specialization since fighters only could have grandmastery, but BG isn't really 2e, so...

GreenWarlock

While I would rather have the 2e behavior (so I do not feel foolish for not realizing that was not the behavior for over a decade!) where dual classes do not get to pick specializations and fighter-weapons not available to their regular class, that has been the behavior of the game since the beginning, so a change of functionality should at least be signaled in the release notes.

Also, as noted above, you can still gain grand-master at higher levels of the dualed class, so this is not 2e PnP rules either - hence the confusion about how the feature actually works now.

(and while I would prefer a strict 2nd Ed PnP ruling, I can easily role-play that restriction myself without requiring BeamDog inject it into the game, which I suspect would upset many more than would appreciate such a change)

sarevok57

GreenWarlock said:

Nice finding sarevok57 - thanks. That will be useful info for my next planned dart flinging build - although my plan would be to hit lvl 9 as a fighter before dualing if we have SoD on the Mac App store by then.

Do we know which patch introduced this change of behavior?

in 1.4 you can be a level 7 fighter dual over to thief and when you hit level 8, you can put your last proficiency into that weapon for grand mastery, so it either happened, in the v2.x's somewhere

Yann1989

sarevok57 said:

GreenWarlock said:

Nice finding sarevok57 - thanks. That will be useful info for my next planned dart flinging build - although my plan would be to hit lvl 9 as a fighter before dualing if we have SoD on the Mac App store by then.

Do we know which patch introduced this change of behavior?

in 1.4 you can be a level 7 fighter dual over to thief and when you hit level 8, you can put your last proficiency into that weapon for grand mastery, so it either happened, in the v2.x's somewhere

Or it is like mf2112 said: you have to get your extra point of proficiency when your second class has more levels than your first class. For me, it has always been like that: you don't touch the weapons you already had proficiencies with until you recover your first class abilities, i.e. until you get a level higher than the level you had in your prior class.

If Beamdog changed anything, it is maybe the possibility to benefit from your prior proficiencies even before you reach that level.

Dee

The change is described in the release notes for v2.0; there's an added level requirement for each point of proficiency in a given weapon, based on the Fighter's proficiency progression. Primarily this is to prevent new characters in BGII:EE from starting with Grand Mastery that they wouldn't have been able to achieve through normal leveling, but it also affects dual-class characters.

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