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mods and backstabs?

any rogue mods, allow the use of 3rd edition backstabs ?

Find am dealing with waves of mobs and dont have time in combat to faff about geting the thief into positon(while hidden) to do a backstab.

(SOme high lvl undead see through sneak ?)

Its much easier in IWD to use a thief dual class, as you just need to slot them in opposite the tank on the back of the mob.
BS is ofcourse still great for taking out casters at the start of the fight....

I prefer lower damage bstabs if they are easier to do, my time is limited, and 2nd ed rules are making things too slow in big fights.

Dont have mislead spell yet, guess that might help! (FMT)

Comments

  • jtthjtth Member Posts: 169
    Not that I know of. It's part of the engine. IWD's engine makes accommodations for that.

    That said, mislead and pots of invis will help a lot. Also, if you want to be backstab machine just dedicate a lot of spell slots for invis. That said, it's not that hard to just run away, hide out of line of sight, and come back and backstab.

  • ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
    was exploreing the assasinate HLA earlier....

    is belm the highest damage speed factor 0 weapon?

    or something like mordenkainens swrd etc ie a summoned one

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,945
    Belm is definitely not the highest damage weapon with speed factor 0 (unless you mean per round). For backstabbing, Dagger of the Star +5, Kachiko's Wakizashi, Short Sword of Mask, Angurvadal, Yamato, Usuno's Blade, and Hindo's Doom all have speed factor 0 and do more damage per hit. If you're not backstabbing, then there's also Runehammer, K'logarath, and (depending on ammunition) Sling of Everard and Erinne Sling.

    Staff of the Ram has speed factor 1, but a single pip in Two-Handed Weapon style will bring that down to 0.

    Mordenkainen's Sword works differently in BG2 than in IWD; it functions as a summoned creature rather than an equipped weapon. I don't know the speed factors of Black Blade of Disaster or other summoned/shapechanged weapons. The Iron Golem form's fists might be a candidate.

  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 6,376
    3E uses sneak attacks not backstabs. IWDee has an option to use 3E sneak attack.

  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 9,844
    I thought 3E/IWD-style sneak attack has been added as an option in BGEE 2.0? Am I wrong?

    joluvjackjack
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    edited June 2016

    I thought 3E/IWD-style sneak attack has been added as an option in BGEE 2.0? Am I wrong?

    There is an option in the baldur.lua file for it.

    joluvjackjackameliaboggins
  • ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
    edited June 2016
    `with speed factor 0 (unless you mean per round).`

    tbh only used the assasinate HLA for first time this weekend, so still getting a feel for it....

    basically to use it you need to hit as fast as possible. AM not clear if it only works on weapon in primary.....OR if you had dual weilding speed 0 weapons that can backstab...if that would be the best option. Seems you just need to make as many attacks as you can in that one round. Therefore best used with oil of speed/improved haste? SO I was looking for 0 speed weapons that gave +1 apr as well....hence Belm. Only one I can see atmo....(belm in offhand maybe?)

    Any other tips on how to use this HLA ?

    Post edited by ameliaboggins on
  • ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
    edited June 2016
    I guess this is an option....from a mod.



    B ) Scarlet Katana

    01) Scarlet Katana - Scarlet Ninja-To is now Scarlet Katana.
    Higher price, but useful for monks, bards and thieves.

    its speed factor 1, but has +1apr.


    will try learning more on the lua file on tue....

    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/48704/help-to-get-into-the-root-of-this-problem-baldur-lua-file-on-windows-xp

    Sneak attack will lessen the power of assasinate hla tho? /sigh

  • joluvjoluv Member Posts: 1,945
    Speed factor doesn't affect the number of attacks per round. To maximize APR, use Improved Haste and equip two of the three weapons that give an extra attack: Belm, Kundane, and the Scarlet Ninja-To (requires UAI). Assuming your FMT is specialized in the weapons you equip, that will give 10 APR, which is the maximum.

    ameliabogginsjackjack
  • ameliabogginsameliaboggins Member Posts: 287
    edited June 2016
    mf2112 said:

    I thought 3E/IWD-style sneak attack has been added as an option in BGEE 2.0? Am I wrong?

    There is an option in the baldur.lua file for it.
    cant seem to get this to work. should add +1D6 damage per 4 lvls? or something

    its not adding any, so backstab damage is reading 0.

    Had a look in eekeepr to see if I chould changge it, but the tab that had backstab in, was pretty complicated and not clear, how to edit it. Think its under effects tab ?

    Cant load up my old IWD games atmo as they on a ide hdd and my `new` pc only reads sata drives; no ide socket.

    ANyone got time to see if sneak attack works in bg2?

    Probably go back to old fashioned way atmo)

    Might try starting new game with a lvl 1 thief and see if i can get it working.....

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,087
    IIRC, Sneak Attack is not yet properly implemented into BG2.

    Also @ameliaboggins you will not be able to modify such game rules with EEKeeper, you need a tool like NearInfinity to do that.

    jackjack
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    another neat trick to get more APR as a Pure thief is using Boomerang Dagger+2 or Firetooth+3 in melee as Mainhand Weapon , being a throwing dagger you retain 2 APR with 2d4 damage instead of 1d4 making it one of the Better backstab weapons.
    and using Kudane/Belm you end up with 4 APR, but since you only can put one point into two-weapon-fighting you will take a hit of -2-6 thac0, works of course best with a sprinkle of 3lvl fighter to remove that downside and even get the 5th APR with Dagger grand mastery.

    just putting that out here for the assassinate HLA.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572

    another neat trick to get more APR as a Pure thief is using Boomerang Dagger+2 or Firetooth+3 in melee as Mainhand Weapon , being a throwing dagger you retain 2 APR with 2d4 damage instead of 1d4 making it one of the Better backstab weapons.
    and using Kudane/Belm you end up with 4 APR, but since you only can put one point into two-weapon-fighting you will take a hit of -2-6 thac0, works of course best with a sprinkle of 3lvl fighter to remove that downside and even get the 5th APR with Dagger grand mastery.

    just putting that out here for the assassinate HLA.

    You can't equip an offhand weapon when using a ranged weapon in mainhand, even if the said weapon has a melee mode and you are using it as a melee weapon.

    Pteran
  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421

    Arunsun said:

    another neat trick to get more APR as a Pure thief is using Boomerang Dagger+2 or Firetooth+3 in melee as Mainhand Weapon , being a throwing dagger you retain 2 APR with 2d4 damage instead of 1d4 making it one of the Better backstab weapons.
    and using Kudane/Belm you end up with 4 APR, but since you only can put one point into two-weapon-fighting you will take a hit of -2-6 thac0, works of course best with a sprinkle of 3lvl fighter to remove that downside and even get the 5th APR with Dagger grand mastery.

    just putting that out here for the assassinate HLA.

    You can't equip an offhand weapon when using a ranged weapon in mainhand, even if the said weapon has a melee mode and you are using it as a melee weapon.
    yes you can , please try things before you spread false information's, turning on melee mode equips your Off-hand weapon and the extra apr n stuff , turning it to ranged will remove the offhand visible from your model including the extra apr fighting mode etc.

    BG00.jpg 563.8K
    BG1.jpg 582.2K
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572
    edited June 2016
    No you can't, not in an unmodded game. Unless 2.0 changed that but this would be very wrong balance-wise. And don't you be patronizing, that's not how decent people speak to one another.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572
    edited June 2016
    Oh and before you ask,yes the dagger was in melee mode.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Arunsun said:

    No you can't, not in an unmodded game. Unless 2.0 changed that but this would be very wrong balance-wise. And don't you be patronizing, that's not how decent people speak to one another.

    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.

    Aerakar
  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    I am going to quote subtledoctor here:
    In general on these forums, if a post can be interpreted to connote hostility and alternatively can be interpreted as non-hostile... you should default to assuming the non-hostile interpretation.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572
    edited June 2016
    mf2112 said:

    Arunsun said:

    No you can't, not in an unmodded game. Unless 2.0 changed that but this would be very wrong balance-wise. And don't you be patronizing, that's not how decent people speak to one another.

    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.
    Mea Culpa then. This is typically the kind of interference that Beamdog should limitate IMHO. But it does change quite a lot balance-wise, mostly concerning daggers (the other exotic ranged weapons, axes and hammers, remain OK even with that change) due to the fact you retain the APR that's supposed to be ranged only, which makes the gap between Melee daggers and Ranged daggers (used as melee) even bigger, the former being as useless as ever, while the latter are as strong as most endgame melee weapons, with the ability to be ranged as well.

  • mf2112mf2112 Member, Moderator Posts: 1,919
    Arunsun said:

    mf2112 said:

    Arunsun said:

    No you can't, not in an unmodded game. Unless 2.0 changed that but this would be very wrong balance-wise. And don't you be patronizing, that's not how decent people speak to one another.

    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.
    Mea Culpa then. This is typically the kind of interference that Beamdog should limitate IMHO. But it does change quite a lot balance-wise, mostly concerning daggers due to the fact you retain the APR that's supposed to be ranged only, which makes the gap between Melee daggers and Ranged daggers (used as melee) even bigger, the former being as useless as ever, while the latter are as strong as most endgame melee weapons, with the ability to be ranged as well.
    I believe the APR switches to match the appropriate attack method so you don't gain such a bonus.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572
    edited June 2016
    mf2112 said:

    Arunsun said:

    mf2112 said:

    Arunsun said:

    No you can't, not in an unmodded game. Unless 2.0 changed that but this would be very wrong balance-wise. And don't you be patronizing, that's not how decent people speak to one another.

    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.
    Mea Culpa then. This is typically the kind of interference that Beamdog should limitate IMHO. But it does change quite a lot balance-wise, mostly concerning daggers due to the fact you retain the APR that's supposed to be ranged only, which makes the gap between Melee daggers and Ranged daggers (used as melee) even bigger, the former being as useless as ever, while the latter are as strong as most endgame melee weapons, with the ability to be ranged as well.
    I believe the APR switches to match the appropriate attack method so you don't gain such a bonus.
    You get an additionnal APR when fighting melee, that's a big deal, really. An additionnal 20 (40 with improved haste) damage per round does not seem that low, and it also makes your assassination HLA a lot stronger. There's a reason why Belm and SNT, and even Kundane are so appreciated amongst powergamers: Nothing adds quite as much damage as bonus APR.

  • AerakarAerakar Member Posts: 638
    edited June 2016
    The 2 returning throwing daggers always had the 2 melee attacks and 2 ranged. It was not widely known though I would guess as they are not often used for melee.

    Given there are 3 usual APR adding weapons in SoA (short sword, scimitar, ninja-to, not counting the shadow thief dagger), IMHO I do not see this as so unbalancing to add 2 more that are daggers at +2/+3, and one of those being in the Underdark.

    It does make daggers more interesting as a proficiency pip, especially for APR and proficiency-starved thieves. This also makes me feel better role-playing my shorty thieves using daggers and short swords as it gives these weapons better options throughout the game. Frankly, before UAI pure/kit thieves need all the help they can get in melee.

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    mf2112 said:

    I am going to quote subtledoctor here:

    In general on these forums, if a post can be interpreted to connote hostility and alternatively can be interpreted as non-hostile... you should default to assuming the non-hostile interpretation.
    wasn't trying to attack anyone , i just assumed people keep the game up to date and provide information's according to that, testing them of course.

    mf2112 said:

    » show previous quotes
    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.

    Mea Culpa then. This is typically the kind of interference that Beamdog should limitate IMHO. But it does change quite a lot balance-wise, mostly concerning daggers (the other exotic ranged weapons, axes and hammers, remain OK even with that change) due to the fact you retain the APR that's supposed to be ranged only, which makes the gap between Melee daggers and Ranged daggers (used as melee) even bigger, the former being as useless as ever, while the latter are as strong as most endgame melee weapons, with the ability to be ranged as well.
    its not beamdogs fault those daggers have 2d4 in the first place equaling bastard swords and topping almost any other weapon in raw damage and a thief with 4 APR might sound impressive but as i stated he gets a whooping -2/-6 THAC0 to his already sh#t to hit Values but its an option i just wanted to put out there.

    there are a lot of game breaking things, i consider APR items on the lower spectrum of crazy.

  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,572

    mf2112 said:

    I am going to quote subtledoctor here:

    In general on these forums, if a post can be interpreted to connote hostility and alternatively can be interpreted as non-hostile... you should default to assuming the non-hostile interpretation.
    wasn't trying to attack anyone , i just assumed people keep the game up to date and provide information's according to that, testing them of course.

    mf2112 said:

    » show previous quotes
    2.0 changed that. It is a simple functionality improvement, not a balance changer. You could still do the same thing while paused and swapping weapons.

    Mea Culpa then. This is typically the kind of interference that Beamdog should limitate IMHO. But it does change quite a lot balance-wise, mostly concerning daggers (the other exotic ranged weapons, axes and hammers, remain OK even with that change) due to the fact you retain the APR that's supposed to be ranged only, which makes the gap between Melee daggers and Ranged daggers (used as melee) even bigger, the former being as useless as ever, while the latter are as strong as most endgame melee weapons, with the ability to be ranged as well.
    its not beamdogs fault those daggers have 2d4 in the first place equaling bastard swords and topping almost any other weapon in raw damage and a thief with 4 APR might sound impressive but as i stated he gets a whooping -2/-6 THAC0 to his already sh#t to hit Values but its an option i just wanted to put out there.

    there are a lot of game breaking things, i consider APR items on the lower spectrum of crazy.

    My game is as up to date as it can be. Just that Beamdog needs years to port updates to Android.

    Just a question, can you wield Firetooth and Boomy dagger offhand?

    And though it's not Beamdog's fault if those weapons have high base damage and 2 base APR, they are the ones that enabled it to be dual wielded. It never has been planned this way in vanilla. And yet these weapons were already good.
    And not only thieves are affected by these changes. Druids as well, even fighters could use that. Mages as well. It gives them access to an APR weapon, making Tenser Transformation much more valuable.

  • DevardKrownDevardKrown Member Posts: 421
    @Arunsun

    sadly no , you can only mainhand Boomerang and Firetooth, and yes they where my number one mage weapon even in vanilla... equip and forget, and they keep the mage in distance.

    also i think it was not intended but more a sneaked in bug/exploit with the off-hand "Update" allowing you to equip shields/off-hand weapons while wielding a bow/two handed weapon so you don't have to play the inventory shuffle if you want lets say swap from bow to sword/shield.

  • WrathofreccaWrathofrecca Member Posts: 83
    Meh news for thief but I wonder if a ranger could exploit this : )

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