No Cheedar Item/Equipment Challenge

bbear

This challenge is inspired by the thread "Items you never use because of their aged cheddar scent". The goal is to play BG/BG2 with no cheesy/overly powerful items and equipments. This challenge should be fun because now your party doesnt have special items that make you immortal against enemies. No more shield of balduran that transforms beholder encounters into a kobold battle. Different strategies and tactics are needed for enemies what previously could have been defeated easily.

Currently, I am still formulating the rules. But some core rules are the following:
-Equip standardized weapons, armors, helmets and shields: Long Sword+1 is ok, but not named weapon like the Equalizer+3
-Rings and amulets: any are fine except 1) Amulet of Power, 2) Ring of the Gaax
-Cloak: no cloak of mirroring

-Items: potion and scrolls are ok since they are limited items; wands cannot be recharged
-Npc specific items are ok on that npc because this makes them special. Keldorn would not be happy if he cant use his own armor. Also, you CANT remove Edwin's amulet or Boo from Minsc.
-Quest items are ok (that helmet for seeing the fire guardian in firkagg's dungeon in bg2, etc)
-Daily charge items are ok (warrior horn summoning, spider summoning, horn of blasting, various harps, etc)

Possible rules:
-Possibly some exceptions to weapons (I'm thinking allowing the dart+3 from Watcher's keep since the next best dart is the dart+1)
-Possibly each character can wear 2 (or 3) of the following: bracer/boot/amulet/ring/cloak/belt
-Possibly relax the core rule on helmets and shields

Game Rule:
-Cannot level up beyond 2,950,000 xp before reaching ToB (otherwise the level parity makes this challenge too easy)

I welcome other people's ideas too. I wont be starting the challenge until this weekend.

Brude

I like this a lot, and tbh this is mostly how I played when the game first came out (not having access to bonus merchants, and not knowing that items like Carsomyr and the Flail of Ages were in the game).

Not playing with *any* named weapons might be tricky though. Aren't there mobs in SoA that require higher level weapons (+3 and above) to hit them?

kamuizin

Dude, serious, you're fucked. There are a lot of monsters in the game immune to weapons weaker than +3 and until ToB you don't find any standard +3 weapon.

bbear

kamuizin said:

Dude, serious, you're fucked. There are a lot of monsters in the game immune to weapons weaker than +3 and until ToB you don't find any standard +3 weapon.

Well, there are arrow+3, bolt+3, bullet+3 and +4 in first floor of Watcher's Keep...

kamuizin

I have to agree, but in an exception issue, the demi-lich for instance will be a problematic battle (only +4 or more weapons against him). But he's not a mandatory battle anyway.

NightfallRob

Uh, you guys realize that if they stick to the 2nd edition rules set you may encounter things you can't hurt with a +1 weapon, right? In 1st and 2nd edition, like kamuizin pointed out, some creatures require +3 or +4 or greater bonuses.

Shin

Seems like a bit of an arbitrary list. The Equalizer for instance is nowhere near as powerful as Carsomyr or the Cloak of Mirroring, nor as situationally overpowered as the Shield of Balduran. Considering how late in the game you get it, I wouldn't view it as cheesy at all. And what about Varscona, Ashideena, etc? To me a cheesy or overpowered item is something that notably affects the game balance (commonly making something that is meant to be challenging ridiculously easy). That a weapon is named doesn't necessarily mean it'll be all that useful.

Also, what about cheesy tactics? I feel like I would rather fight an adamantite golem up close with a +4 sword than drop cloudkills on it from another room or have it get stuck in a doorway while I whittle it down with arrows and bullets.

Brude

@bbear Also, check out some mods. I think it might be Item Revisions or SCS (or aTweaks?) which tones down flat bonuses, removes the Shield of Balduran from the game, moves the Robe of Vecna to ToB, and nerfs Carsomyr so that targets are granted a save against its dispelling effects.

kamuizin

@Shin, taking myself for instance, i never used equalizer, it's a too weak item for the time you get it.

bbear

@brude and @shin

There is the mage spell minute meteor. They are +5 throwing weapons. Good enough for any monsters. I usually exploit doorway for those adamantine golems. They hit pretty hard and does like mid 20 - 30 damage on average and probably has 3 attacks per round.

If doorways cannot be exploited, then summon a mordenkain sword should be enough.

bbear

By the way, has anyone seen this "Solo Insane Poverty Challenge" posted by David Scott at bg2 tob gamesfaq? Link: http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/258273-baldurs-gate-ii-shadows-of-amn/faqs/32480

Apparently, a solo sorcerer w/ no equipment is very doable. Pretty much can defeat anything in bg2 w/ the correct spell picks. I do disagree with that author on some spell picks. In particular, Power Word Blind and Spell Trigger are essential spells. Precast Improve Alacrity and churning Spell Trigger (x3 lower magic resistance) follow up w/ Power Word Blind. Then the battle is over before you know it.

Brude

@bbear But what are your frontline fighters supposed to do while the Mage chucks magic rocks?

bbear

Brude said:

@bbear But what are your frontline fighters supposed to do while the Mage chucks magic rocks?

They would just stand there in awe.

Candramelekh

kamuizin said:

I have to agree, but in an exception issue, the demi-lich for instance will be a problematic battle (only +4 or more weapons against him). But he's not a mandatory battle anyway.

There is Mordenkainen Sword. I think it's a good idea to battle vs. impossible enemies, when only one or two of your party members have chance to defeat your foe

kamuizin

@Candramelekh Demi-lich cast 1 imprisonment spell per round, and his cast has no cast time, only things immune to imprisonment can stand a chance against the demi-lich, unfortunally if i remember well, the ogre berserkers aren't immune to imprisonment (and they should be immune), i don't remember if the berserker warrior from the summoning horn is enraged or not to face him, i believe he is.

bbear

kamuizin said:

@Candramelekh Demi-lich cast 1 imprisonment spell per round, and his cast has no cast time, only things immune to imprisonment can stand a chance against the demi-lich, unfortunally if i remember well, the ogre berserkers aren't immune to imprisonment (and they should be immune), i don't remember if the berserker warrior from the summoning horn is enraged or not to face him, i believe he is.

The fighter kit berserker's special ability berserk is immune to imprisonment as well as many other nasty things. Also, a mage w/ spell immunity - abjuration is immune to imprisonment. Mage combines well w/ those minute meteors.

CaptRory

bbear said:

@brude and @shin

There is the mage spell minute meteor. They are +5 throwing weapons. Good enough for any monsters. I usually exploit doorway for those adamantine golems. They hit pretty hard and does like mid 20 - 30 damage on average and probably has 3 attacks per round.

If doorways cannot be exploited, then summon a mordenkain sword should be enough.

Do they use any of the Weapon Proficiencies? Do they count as Darts? Fighter/Mage Dual Class of Meteor Spammage =3

bbear

CaptRory said:

Do they use any of the Weapon Proficiencies? Do they count as Darts? Fighter/Mage Dual Class of Meteor Spammage =3

Not sure. Most likely proficient at using those rocks.

Candramelekh

@kamuizin In my very first expirience with BG2 i had no idea about DnD, FR or BG gameplay. To defeat demilich i pick four mages, lots of Freedom scrolls and my character casts 4 or 5 mordenkainen swords. While MS beat demilich, all my mages casts freedom. Today that tactic should cause smile, but it works even better than i expected. I think, knowing game mechanics and possibilities reduces our game imaginary