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The Slayer, A Pitfiend?

So Bhaal can turn into a Pitfiend? That's one of his aspects?

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  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bhaal#Avatars

    The game obviously decided to go another way with how the Slayer is supposed to look, and I think it works out well in the end. We already have a legendary corpse-like male humanoid protagonist in another game.
  • GodGod Member Posts: 1,150
    Nuin said:

    We already have a legendary corpse-like male humanoid protagonist in another game.

    Baldur's Gate 3: Planescape: Torment of The Nameless Bhaalspawn Enhanced Edition confirmed.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited July 2016
    I don't think a pit fiend looks like the Slayer in-game.
    As the link says, some focused Bhaal children had the ability to turn into Slayer, an avatar form which looks demonic and monstrous, and I think the in-game appearance reflects this well.
    Or it was the artistic choice of game designers and that wiki page ret-conned that. :)
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    lunar said:

    I don't think a pit fiend looks like the Slayer in-game.
    As the link says, some focused Bhaal children had the ability to turn into Slayer, an avatar form which looks demonic and monstrous, and I think the in-game appearance reflects this well.
    Or it was the artistic choice of game designers and that wiki page ret-conned that. :)

    It uses the pit fiend animation,except smaller. But it is the pit fiend animation. And one of the pit fiends in the WK 3rd floor (In a dead-magic zone I believe) is indeed called pit fiend and uses the slayer appearance (which is a human-size pit fiend anyway)
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Oh? I thought in vanilla game Pitfiends used either the winged-big Nabassu (aecletec) animation or the big,yellow and thorny Gelugon animation from Iwd??I have mods that edit many things, along with atweaks which really meticulously edit and beautify many creatures that use the same avatar to further distinct them. In atweaks you can see a golem by its color and know its type, for example.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    edited July 2016
    lunar said:

    Oh? I thought in vanilla game Pitfiends used either the winged-big Nabassu (aecletec) animation or the big,yellow and thorny Gelugon animation from Iwd??I have mods that edit many things, along with atweaks which really meticulously edit and beautify many creatures that use the same avatar to further distinct them. In atweaks you can see a golem by its color and know its type, for example.





    They are not the exact same but are really really close, so close that I had never made the difference before writing this message.
    I believe that vanilla SoA without ToB would use the Nabassu animation even for Glabrezus (most notably the battle with Irenicus in Hell would summon 2 Nabassus and 2 Glabrezus but all for would use the Nabassu animation, that of Aecletec), and ToB added this one which is used for Glabrezus:

  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    edited July 2016
    Hmm well, @Arunsun I agree the two first images (Slayer and Pit fiend) look somewhat anatomically similiar, however the head and especially the mouth shape is totally different IMHO. Not to mention the PF avatar has extra arms.

    Lore wise, Pit fiends should use winged Nabassu animation, but then again Balors should also use it. To differentiate, Pit fiend may have a different color scheme, and Balor may have body flames, a flaming weapon animation or fire shield animation. This is what atweaks does IIRC.

    I kinda dig the Slayer look, though. It reminds me of the Violator from Spawn comics. Not a fan of the comics, but the guy Todd McFarlane could really draw! Boy he could! His style stirs my imagination. And I like the similiarity, their names are even alike in meaning. Violater is a horrible, terrible, sickening monster and so is Slayer.


  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    Nuin said:

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bhaal#Avatars

    The game obviously decided to go another way with how the Slayer is supposed to look, and I think it works out well in the end. We already have a legendary corpse-like male humanoid protagonist in another game.

    "In some extreme cases, Bhaal's mortal Bhaalspawn children could actually turn into creatures that were said to be these avatars after his death; however, these creatures were even more monstrous and inhuman in shape, acting as little more than powerful killing machines."
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    Vitor said:

    Nuin said:

    http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Bhaal#Avatars

    The game obviously decided to go another way with how the Slayer is supposed to look, and I think it works out well in the end. We already have a legendary corpse-like male humanoid protagonist in another game.

    "In some extreme cases, Bhaal's mortal Bhaalspawn children could actually turn into creatures that were said to be these avatars after his death; however, these creatures were even more monstrous and inhuman in shape, acting as little more than powerful killing machines."
    The thing is, did the game use this lore to model Slayer, or did the site ret-con the lore based on the success of the game?

  • FinneousPJFinneousPJ Member Posts: 6,455
    @lunar does it matter
  • smeagolheartsmeagolheart Member Posts: 7,963
    Somebody should mod it where the Slayer Form animation is the Nameless One!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    What can change the nature of a bhaalspawn indeed. That would be great.
  • lunarlunar Member Posts: 3,460
    @FinneousPJ not much, I guess. But purist d&d lore fans may diss the game's content and portrayal of Slayer as non-official-non-canon lore. Just an inconsequental quirk stemming from game graphic insufficiency. Because canon wise, Bhaal's Slayer looked like a mutiliated, bloody corpse, in the official and canon books.

    I did not read in any book about Bhaalspawns, describing what their Slayer looked like. Well I read Abdel's adventures ofcourse, but can not remember what his Slayer looked like...it is a defense mechanism that most everybody who reads them wants to forget the whole ordeal.
  • VitorVitor Member Posts: 288
    @lunar, I think Baldur's Gate created the concept of "Bhaalspawn", and created a lot of canon lore about Bhaal, Baldur's Gate and the Sword Coast in general. You should considere the game the canon source, while the Baldur's Gate novels are in the "fanfic zone". So, don't take into account that stupid story about "Abdel Adrian". Consider "Gorion's ward" as a nameless and cloudy figure. At least that's how I handle it.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Vitor said:

    @lunar, I think Baldur's Gate created the concept of "Bhaalspawn", and created a lot of canon lore about Bhaal, Baldur's Gate and the Sword Coast in general. You should considere the game the canon source, while the Baldur's Gate novels are in the "fanfic zone". So, don't take into account that stupid story about "Abdel Adrian". Consider "Gorion's ward" as a nameless and cloudy figure. At least that's how I handle it.

    The official version however is that, for everything that varies between the novel and the game, the novel is canon. Which is a shame and not legit IMHO as the games predate the book, but that's the official version.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    HEADCANON AWAAAAAAAAAAY
  • NuinNuin Member Posts: 451
    The canon has changed in 5E (no surprise really, D&D does retcons almost as casually as Marvel). For example, BG's Minsc and Viconia are now canon in 5E (they are different characters in the novels).

    What happened is that Lord Ao basically reshaped reality in 5E and in doing so drew elements from multiples sources (campaign books, the IE games, the novels, etc). It is implied that the events from the games/novels/campaign books actually DID happen, but in different parallel universes.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,212
    Oh, great, the US comic book cop-out. "It all happened SOMEWHERE guys!". God waving a magic wand and making it just-so? Now where have I heard such a story before...

    Ah well, I supposed lore continuity and consistency was never a big concern of mine. But I imagine people who care for that sort of thing are not happy.
  • ArunsunArunsun Member Posts: 1,592
    Nuin said:

    The canon has changed in 5E (no surprise really, D&D does retcons almost as casually as Marvel). For example, BG's Minsc and Viconia are now canon in 5E (they are different characters in the novels).

    What happened is that Lord Ao basically reshaped reality in 5E and in doing so drew elements from multiples sources (campaign books, the IE games, the novels, etc). It is implied that the events from the games/novels/campaign books actually DID happen, but in different parallel universes.

    Which makes my Fighter/mage Groundhog-Bhaalspawn with his human/half-elf pet companions canon in a particular universe. Sounds fine to me :smiley:
  • scriverscriver Member Posts: 2,072
    Vitor said:

    @lunar, I think Baldur's Gate created the concept of "Bhaalspawn", and created a lot of canon lore about Bhaal, Baldur's Gate and the Sword Coast in general.



    It did not by any means. BG's depiction of the Baldur's Gate area is basically lifted word for word from Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast. Almost every location (from inns and taverns to High Hedge, name, and even organisations like the Iron Throne is from there (the Iron Throne is even described as the obvious "this is your obvious bad guy, DMs" in it).
  • ButtercheeseButtercheese Member Posts: 3,766
    I don't know anything about 5Es canon specifically, but Coran is still around as well (Legends of Baldur's Gate and Murder in Baldur's Gate), also Linu from NWN (Neverwinter MMO).
  • 11302101130210 Member Posts: 381
    I always thought, yeah, the Slayer is a Pit Fiend, but obviously not all Pit Fiends are the Slayer.

    It's somewhat like this... all demons are demons, but not all demons are the old avatars of dead gods. That being said, there are certain differences as other people seemed to have already posted.
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