Stat enhancing items
ilduderino
Member Posts: 773
I always feel that Minsc gets a bum deal because there are so many strength enhancing items in the game such that his USP (strength) is not that valuable and as such he is, stat wise, inferior to Mazzy or Valygar. But actually without items boosting strength Minsc is probably the better option. Who else gets better or worse depending on the ingame items? With no dex gauntlets, Keldorn is a sitting duck. Mazzy and Jaheira are weak as kittens without strength gear. I think if there were a different balance of stat boosting items in game you could really more take who you like than who is powerful (I'm looking at you Anomen). I like that fact that SoD is adding items that make minor stat boosts so Minsc's dex can edge up to 17 or 18 with the right kit, erasing his main deficiency.
Post edited by ilduderino on
0
Comments
But yeah, the game throws at you a bunch of items like this. I think the most ridiculous remains the Ring of Human Influence though, it's like it exists just to remind you that Charisma is a dump stat. That's why I like Item Revisions, it makes those items give a bonus instead of setting the scores to a value. Admittedly it makes strong characters like Minsc and Korgan even stronger but it's still fairer than having Jan jump from 9 Strength to 19 just like this.
Honestly I never use her, but that's because I'm allergic to Lawful Good.
Why exactly does stat uniformity matter when they specialize in different things?
And seriously, who uses dump stats in the BG games?
Why care whether the stat gear user becomes a bit better at the task the other npc was already good enough at?
And why not use spells? Am I the only one who uses strength and strength of one (etc)?
Dump stats in BG2. On a game that uses a system that actually allows you to roll for stats, not a point-buy system like IWD2/the Neverwinter Nights series where the concept of a dump stat actually matters. On a game that allows most race/class combinations to set minimum rolls, that gives the player dozens of ways to increase stats permanently or otherwise (ie, epic-level world), that actually has stat breakpoints so going over a set amount doesn't work anyway (AND a stat limit of 25), and where (in the end, for many classes like casters) only 2 or so stats really matter.
If anything any powergamer worth his salt should be shaking his head trying to decide where to put the rest of his extra stat points and looking for ways to get 25 in everything.
Dump stats in BG2. Ridiculous.
Yes, there are dump stats in BG2, something you would know if you bothered to make solo runs of difficulty mods where every point count instead of putting all your effort in being both wrong and condescending at the same time.
What's your excuse for not clicking the "Reroll" button during character creation enough that you actually need a dump stat?
No one can possibly be that unlucky. I'm pretty sure anyone who does statistics will agree.
ALL of my plain fighters (for dualclassing) have at least a 92 on rolls. There's simply no reason to have less than 10 on anything when I have more stats than I know what to do with, especially once stat boosts enter the picture.
Considering how easy (albeit time consuming) it is to get at least a 92 on something like a plain fighter in this game, the idea of having dump stats in BG2 when you actually need a dump stat on games that using a point-buy system is ridiculous. This.
Because laziness should NEVER be used as a (serious) factor in determining what works and what doesn't in games like BG2. If you want to play that way, fine. But call it for what it is, don't sugarcoat it with smilies or hide behind powergaming as an excuse.
Anyways I only do that if I solo, my point was just that waving your e-peen around saying everyone else does it wrong is pretty disingenuous. It really depends on your total score and the class you're using.
e: Hadn't seen this edit before replying. It's not about what works and doesn't work. It's about recognizing which stats are useful or not for whatever class you're picking. Rerolling forever for an epic total is not exactly an accomplishment worth bragging for; it's like killing Fire Giants in Saradush for XP -- a tedious repetitive task served better with cheat keys.
But keep telling me I'm lazy and don't know what I'm talking about, it clearly makes you smarter.
It's funny being trolled or described as "waving my e-peen " by people who are basically just name calling and offering virtually zero argument.
2) The game actually sets (high) minimum rolls for many race/class combinations. So if instead of getting x/x/x/x/x/3 Cha on bard, for example, you instead get x/x/x/x/x/15. This basically guarantees that many class/race combinations (including many of the popular ones) have a higher chance of getting high total rolls.
3) BG1 ALONE gives you a staggering +8 total to stats. There are dozens of spells/potions/gear which increase stats, which means that you only really need a decent "placeholder" stat value until then.
4) Breakpoints matter. Anything over 16 CON on a non-warrior is pointless, for example, and is of questionable value to even multiclass warrior/x character. Any internet resource that has the AD&D values of stat should explain this in detail.
This becomes more relevant once you consider stat increases/decreases over the course of the game (bottomline: you can basically start with lower stats).
Then you have to consider spells and how magic allows you to raise stats/replace the effectiveness of a stat for something else. You also have to consider how many magic items increase specific stats incrementally instead of raising it to a fixed value.
There's also the flipside - the game PUNISHES you for having bad stats. Below average INT means mindflayers will kill you in a few hits, low CHA means NPCs fight/flee earlier and you lose a lot of good dialogue options, etc. Pretty much the only stat that you don't get penalized for (outside of dialogue options) is WIS, but if you've been reading up on breakpoints you'll realize that you probably already have the best of everything else anyway so you might as well have access to all the good dialogue options too.
5) Stat cap. One of the main reasons dump stats exist is because many game systems use stats that don't have a stat cap (or has one that is effectively very hard to reach for most of the game) hence the need to devote more points to a particular stat. In some games some stats are also so powerful they're effectively broken, and they might as well be the game's main currency/resource. In the BG games, however, this currency is XP, not stats.
6) Self-explanatory.
I suppose I expected more from people who would start threads like this, apparently I should have expected that I would have to explain this stuff. And expect that most people would not even bother reading.
Criticizing? That's funny when I'm basically just stating facts. Including the part where people using trolling, taunting, and hiding behind POWERGAMING, of all things, to cover the fact that they're just being lazy.
BTW, "Pot calling the kettle black". I guess I should also explain that part, since I'm pretty much just explaining everything else now. I mentioned this because some people just like playing by their own rules. I see no reason why these people would care if the original game had different rules, so even if dump stats were pointless in BG then meh. So many self-imposed rules are ridiculous when viewed from the perspective of the main game.
The thing is, only someone who actually does this type of stuff out of laziness would take offense in my posts.
@Nuin
First thing first, no one is trolling you. If I sound abrasive, I apologize because it isn't my intention; English is my third language, I don't always realize how I'm coming across. Perhaps it is the same for you, I don't know. You have been consistently aggressive since your first post in this thread, something multiple people have noticed. You don't need to be so angry about a 16 years old video game.
Secondly, you are entirely right by saying dump stats are completely unnecessary. I'm perfectly aware of it, I soled an Assassin with 9 in every stats with Ascension+SCS. Having natural scores as high as possible isn't necessary at all.
But that's not what powergaming is about.
Powergaming is not about what's necessary or not, but what works best. The absolute best. Reaching high naturals, especially for Strength and Dexterity frees item slots and spell slots (not to mention buffs are dispellable and taint your aura for a round). For certain classes it doesn't matter (Sorcerer comes to mind) but multiclasses are especially concerned here, as they not only have low minimums (a couple 9s and then it's all 3s) but also use multiple stats. Rolling 90s totals can take a long time and has no gameplay value whatsoever: you just click the same button again and again until the RNG does what you want. In certain circles, it's even frowned upon and considered cheating.
Side point: starting in BG1 is a huge advantage thanks to the tomes. Still, not everyone does a full trilogy run every time they feel like playing BG2.
On the other hand, certain stats are almost universally useless. Baldur's Gate is a lightweight when it comes to role-playing options compared to games such as Fallout 1/2 or Arcanum. The overwhelming majority of the games consists of dungeon crawling and battles. Penalties for 3 Charisma are almost non-existant. For a solo, party members are a non-issue and you'll be swimming in gold since you only need to equip one person. In a party, they can be circumvented with foreknowledge: don't take party members who fight and switch the party leader when you need to shop or recruit. BG2 makes it even easier by giving you a ring just for this. There are maybe 4 Charisma-dependant options scattered throughout the saga. Perhaps a couple more, but they never have a deep effect on the game regardless.
So, gameplay-wise, you lose absolutely nothing by using it as a dump stat. It's not laziness, it's trading something useless in favor of something useful.