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Can we count on Siege of Dragonspear 1.3?

Sophiel777Sophiel777 Member Posts: 54
I get that the money already has been made and there's basicaly no reason why beamdog overlords would want to do that.
Many fans of the series don't agree with current, underdeveloped UI.
The one from 1.3 had, despite visual improvements, unique RPG theme you could immerse yourself into.
Current one is just too plain and generic.

RavenslightMagpieRandoms
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Comments

  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    Dragonspear doesn't work with 1.3, so the answer is no...

    Kamigoroshisemiticgoddess
  • KamigoroshiKamigoroshi Member Posts: 5,876
    No.

    If the GUI is all you're disagreeing with however, take a look at this forum's UI Modding section.
    @Pecca 's Dragonspear UI++ mod is especially well received amongst players.

  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    No, and neither should you. 1.3 is a downgrade in terms of just about everything, and people need to stop thinking it's great.

    ThacoBell
  • MagpieRandomsMagpieRandoms Member Posts: 72
    I don't like the UI either, but it's unlikely. I put up with it to play Siege of Dragonspear, and then when I had finished the expansion I reverted back to version 1.3.

    Ravenslightlolien
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.

    ThacoBellKuronaRavenslightMagpieRandoms
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2016
    The user and all related content has been deleted.

    KuronaMagpieRandoms
  • KuronaKurona Member Posts: 881
    I'm quite curious to know why people like the 1.3 UI so much. As someone who directly jumped from the classic games to 2.0+ everything seems to be an improvement to me.

    kanisathaThacoBell
  • FardragonFardragon Member Posts: 4,511
    Kurona said:

    I'm quite curious to know why people like the 1.3 UI so much. As someone who directly jumped from the classic games to 2.0+ everything seems to be an improvement to me.

    Some people simply can't cope with change. I've been playing BG since it first came out, and the new interface is clearly a vast improvement over the original.

    kanisathaThacoBell
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    While it is an improvement, it is by no means perfect, and some complaints are very valid. However it is important to distinguish between personal taste, difference/change aversion, and bugs and issues/less efficient ways of doing things.

    unique RPG theme you could immerse yourself into.
    Current one is just too plain and generic.


    ...is a personal opinion, still valid, but hard to quantify. What made it more immersive? What could be changed to make the new UI less generic (aside from the current UI being reverted) ? Etc...

    It's the same complaint that the OP has made in three posts since April - I know this because my sister-in-law is called Sophie L and I have thought "Oh wow, is she playing BG now?" each time she posts.

    kanisatha
  • kanisathakanisatha Member Posts: 1,308
    I agree that many of these UI complaints are based on people's personal preferences, and Beamdog should not be expected to cater to each individual's personal preferences. I too started playing BG when it first came out, and for me the v2+ UI is way better than the original/v1.3 UI. So what about my preference for the new UI (and for even more UI improvements in the future)? Beamdog should do what it sees as being ideal based on its assessment of what's best for the game.

  • dibdib Member Posts: 384
    I think all things I don't like about the new UI has already been said. I enjoyed the EE's a lot and thought they brought many improvements over the old games which I probably would never go back to after playing the EE's. I usually do one or several playthroughs of the BG saga every year but since 2.0 I just don't enjoy playing the game anymore. There just a vast amount of small annoyances that together make any interactions with the UI a lot less enjoyable for me.

    I read a post a while ago which pointed out many of these things very well. Among other things I remember he mentioned scroll bars being everywhere and screen real estate being used in a really inefficient way. I'll just put a link in here if I find the post.

    Ravenslight
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    dib said:

    There just a vast amount of small annoyances that together make any interactions with the UI a lot less enjoyable for me.

    Suggestion: put these annoyances in a thread & maybe put a shout-out to Dee there (easier to find). I'm sure you're not the only one who has input to give. :)

    dib
  • dunbardunbar Member Posts: 1,603
    For me I think it can be summed up by 'too much information', aggravated by too many scroll bars and too many on-screen messages. Basically it felt like I was trying to drive a car with all the dials and gauges in an HUD on the windscreen.

    Ravenslight
  • ThelsThels Member Posts: 1,376
    @dib: A general "1.3 felt more immersive to me" is not something they can do a lot with. What is and is not immersive is in some regards at least a personal opinion, especially if you're comparing "immersiveness lost vs utility gained".

    For example, I really don't like the huge gap between the Stores at the top of the screen and the Store window selector at the bottom of the screen. If I wasn't able to run modded UI's, like the one Pecca made, then I'd definitely have searched for or started a thread explaining how it's bad, make a screenshot or two on how it looks better, and ask if others feel the same to get more support.

    The devs will NOT go back to 1.3, ever. However, if you have specific pointers of what is bad about the current UI and/or how to improve it, and formulate that clearly, the devs WILL consider that, and maybe implement it, depending on how wanted the specific change is, and how much work it would be to implement.

    Heck, a lot about the 2.0 UI is based on user feedback during the 2.0 beta. When the beta deadline was approaching, and they realized that the UI they had been working on was just really not what the playerbase wanted, they made a bunch of changes based on examples by users on how things could look better. And they never said the current UI is final (they actually hinted that they were looking to polish it up some more down the line, but didn't have time to get a proper UI ready in time for the 2.0 release, which at that time was required for the SOD release).

    The 2.0 patch in general was a good thing. The UI they slapped on top of that was a bit of a rushjob and could use improvements here and there, but I'm hoping that the larger gap before the 2.4 release indicates there'll be some solid UI upgrades in there.

    MagpieRandomsrorikon
  • Sophiel777Sophiel777 Member Posts: 54
    UI is my main concern, yes. Some new changes are not all bad. But UI is just terrible. Ideally, it should be reverted to the one from 1.3. Why there was ever decision to change it into something like this is beyond me.

    Ravenslight
  • batoorbatoor Member Posts: 677
    The new journal and spellbook seem like the biggest offenders to me, everything else is something I got used to quickly.

    MagpieRandoms
  • rapsam2003rapsam2003 Member Posts: 1,636
    batoor said:

    The new journal and spellbook seem like the biggest offenders to me, everything else is something I got used to quickly.

    Compared to the old BG (before EE) journal, which was a giant freakin' mess?...

  • DeeDee Member Posts: 10,447

    batoor said:

    The new journal and spellbook seem like the biggest offenders to me, everything else is something I got used to quickly.

    Compared to the old BG (before EE) journal, which was a giant freakin' mess?...
    I think this is why specificity is important. If you can put into words why it was a mess before, or why you think it's worse now (depending on your point of view), you can start to work together to come up with what you actually want the Journal to look or feel like.

    As an example:

    In the original Journal, I didn't like that all the entries were written out longform, so that I had to scroll through a giant list to get to the quest I needed help with.

    In the new Journal, I like that the entries can be collapsed (it makes it easier to find the entry I need), but I don't like that it sits off to the side instead of being centered in the middle of the screen, because I like having everything directly in front of me when I open a menu.

    Does that help?

    rapsam2003
  • MagpieRandomsMagpieRandoms Member Posts: 72
    The journal and the spellbook are a bone of contention for me too @batoor. I have to be honest, they are a mess. I think the search feature is a nice touch but I dislike the layout; I much preferred the old journal. It just felt a heck of a lot more intuitive to me and less like a jumbled database. Also I don't like the tiny icons at the bottom of the spellbook. I think the spell descriptions being listed to the right are fair enough but what's with the tiny buttons?

    Also, can we have optional skin colours please? I know it sounds really petty, but I thought what the guys did with the base game Enhanced Edition, kind of a mixture between SoA and a more modern version of the granite-y look was really easy on the eyes. I know it's a matter of taste but the SoD black skin is just so garish and tacky to me. It hurts my eyes. Alternatively, maybe I should look into a mod... does anyone have any suggestions? I've never actually used mods, ever.

    I personally don't like the four quick save slots. In my opinion there should be one quick save slot; that's what it's for. If you want additional saves, do additional saves. It's a personal bugbear though and I think this one's going to stay in because other people like this feature. I suppose I'll just have to live with it.

    The way the journal updates flash at the top of the screen irritates me, and at first I was like 'yeah I know stop spoon feeding me?!' But I kind of had a little think and I realise that this is probably to assist new players and it's not a huge deal. Maybe we could have the option to turn it off.

    The information in the character sheet is taking some real getting used to. As @dib mentioned, there are way too many segments of text and scroll bars. It sends me a bit snow-blind. Again I appreciate some people prefer this over the 'one long scrollbar' which was not ideal either. Maybe this could be tidied up and streamlined a bit?

    And as @Fardragon pointed out, I think a bit of it is a reluctance to change. Baldur's Gate is a retro game. I suppose in the quest for improving it I have a little bit of a fear that it's going to be turned into something unrecognisable. I think one of the things I loved about the game was that it was never perfect to begin with (baked bean cobblestones, anyone)?

    Ravenslight
  • Mr2150Mr2150 Member Posts: 1,170
    edited August 2016
    @MagpieRandoms - You can turn journal pop-ups off:

    OPTIONS > GAMEPLAY > FEEDBACK > VISUAL FEEDBACK > JOURNAL POPUPS ON/OFF

    MagpieRandoms
  • dibdib Member Posts: 384

    The dialog box is a frustratingly unplayable mess. This poster illustrated some of the problems, complete with screenshots.
    https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/59771/rant-sad-state-of-the-ui-and-the-ees-in-general/p1


    For the love of... please give me the option to have the old dialog box, with just one scrollbar back.

    Yeah, that was the post I mentioned. That post brings up most of the issues I have with the new UI.

  • MagpieRandomsMagpieRandoms Member Posts: 72
    Mr2150 said:

    @MagpieRandoms - You can turn journal pop-ups off:

    OPTIONS > GAMEPLAY > FEEDBACK > VISUAL FEEDBACK > JOURNAL POPUPS ON/OFF

    Oh yey! Thank you for that!

  • MagpieRandomsMagpieRandoms Member Posts: 72
    Thanks @Bleusteel, this thread has been pretty useful.

  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 870
    I'm on Sophiel's side but even I know this is technically impossible and ultimately a waste of time and development effort.

    sometimes you just gotta let go.

  • RavenslightRavenslight Member Posts: 1,611

    I'm on Sophiel's side but even I know this is technically impossible and ultimately a waste of time and development effort.

    sometimes you just gotta let go.

    It is far from impossible for the developers to make adjustments to the UI based on feedback from their customers. As far as it being a waste of time, I would argue that it would be very much worth their time to make adjustments to their product if their customers are not satisfied. All companies are judged by the products that they have previously produced, as well as how they have treated their customers.

    If enough people pick up the EE editions wanting to revisit an old classic, and are not happy with the product, it can potentially have a negative effect on the sale of future titles. These are the first products to be release by this new company. I would think that customer feedback would be very important to them.

    MagpieRandomsdib
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