Making It Work: Journal
Mr2150
Member Posts: 1,170
Potential Discussion Points:
- Cannot filter by completed / active / all quests
- Hard to work out which quests are done because the font colouring is poor
- 'NO OBJECTIVE TEXT' issue for BGEE and BG2EE (this is jointly a UI issue and an engine issue)
- Conceptually it's a brilliant idea (small journal that you can have on screen at the same time as you are still 'live' in the game) but it can introduce a major bug that causes slowdown of the game.
- Some people may prefer a larger journal that fills the screen (and pauses the game).
- The graphics used for the journal and parchment don't feel quite right.
- The Chapter graphics are sometimes too small for some languages
- Quest chains can be marked completed before subsequent elements are done
- Cannot filter/search quest entries, only journal entries and user notes
- Cannot easily delete user notes, you have to go in and manually delete all the text - I think.
- The parchment colour is too “white”, it needs to be brought more in line with the tones of the original games.
- Ability to go into the journal from the inventory screen.
- TPU doesn't find quests and journal entries
- TPU sometimes presents entries that don't exist (this is more an engine issue)
- TPU doesn't occur for some entries (this is more an engine issue)
- ..... BUT, TPU status 'Journal Updated' is sometimes misleading if any of the previous two issues occur
- TPU sometimes occurs too quickly to read / click on
- TPU updates can often be sequential (eg if a quest is given and updated in the same conversation) - example talking to the mayor of Nashkel for the first time produces two updates.
- TPU position is often in the way / takes up too much space
- TPU position squeezes text and makes it unreadable.
@Dee said:
- Cannot filter by completed / active / all quests
- Hard to work out which quests are done because the font colouring is poor
- 'NO OBJECTIVE TEXT' issue for BGEE and BG2EE (this is jointly a UI issue and an engine issue)
- Conceptually it's a brilliant idea (small journal that you can have on screen at the same time as you are still 'live' in the game) but it can introduce a major bug that causes slowdown of the game.
- Some people may prefer a larger journal that fills the screen (and pauses the game).
- The graphics used for the journal and parchment don't feel quite right.
- The Chapter graphics are sometimes too small for some languages
- Quest chains can be marked completed before subsequent elements are done
- Cannot filter/search quest entries, only journal entries and user notes
- Cannot easily delete user notes, you have to go in and manually delete all the text - I think.
- The parchment colour is too “white”, it needs to be brought more in line with the tones of the original games.
- Ability to go into the journal from the inventory screen.
- TPU doesn't find quests and journal entries
- TPU sometimes presents entries that don't exist (this is more an engine issue)
- TPU doesn't occur for some entries (this is more an engine issue)
- ..... BUT, TPU status 'Journal Updated' is sometimes misleading if any of the previous two issues occur
- TPU sometimes occurs too quickly to read / click on
- TPU updates can often be sequential (eg if a quest is given and updated in the same conversation) - example talking to the mayor of Nashkel for the first time produces two updates.
- TPU position is often in the way / takes up too much space
- TPU position squeezes text and makes it unreadable.
@Dee said:
Be aware that any mock-ups or designs posted in this thread are advisory only; nothing is promised or guaranteed for future implementation. All we're doing is discussing and honing ideas.
9
Comments
Seriously, though. Any mockup I made would probably just look like your mod for the most part.
Then click the symbol that looks like a backwards P next to an I.. that has all the styles ... Spoiler will be in the drop down box and clicking it will put any text or pictures highlighted within in a spoiler for you
Quest Entries
Journal Entries
User Notes
And now the new journal has two sections:
Quest Entries
Journal Entries and User Notes
So maybe it's more precise to say it's like this:
1.3 has:
- Quest Entries
- Done Quests
- Active Quests
- Journal Entries
- User Notes
2.0+ has:Should we throw on an example of the 2.0 version and maybe you're mod for extra comparison?
People play the game in different ways and I'd imagine that as many people would like one format as the other. A potential solution, therefore is to have the option to flip between the journals whilst still in the game. That's something that is possible and would keep everyone happy, I think.
I just know I really dislike the new setup, personally. I want the game to pause again and get a centered larger screen again. So I was thinking a toggle?
And just for reference, here's what the vanilla BG2EE journal looks like with all the open and completed quests mixed together. It might not be quite as bad if the text had better differentiation but it's still a mess.
So you press J and the game pauses and you can read the big centred journal. There's a small button there which you can press (but only if you want), and it makes it turn into the small version. And vice versa, there's a button in the small journal which will turn it into the large journal.
That way, you get the best of both worlds. Want to spend time reading and going through your quests - use the big journal. Want to check something quickly when walking across the map, use the small journal.
It's entirely possible to do in the UI and would give the most flexibility, be completely optional to use and allow those who have a preference for one or the other to completely ignore the alternative one.
Yes, it would work the same as mouse or keyboard.
The dimensions of the large screen should be the same as the inventory / record screen (864x710) and the small journal is (501x773). It's still early here so I'll have a crack at knocking up some basic blueprints later today.
Anyway, just for the sake of curiosity, this is how the journal looked in one promo during the beta stage of SoD (before they introduced the current concept):
argueddebated to have two alternative journals so that there is the flexibility for the way people might play the game.I do believe it is possible in the UI, but this stage is just about identifying needs. Also, we have the smaller journal right now in v2.3 and it has many advantages over the large journal (and likewise the large journal has many advantages over the smaller journal). If this process justifies a change back to the larger journal, so be it. But there may be some other reason that prevents that... so we need to look at both and if the ideal (a dual approach) will not work at least we have then mapped out all the options for both screens rather than just concentrating on one or the other.
So we need to discuss and look at those advantages/disadvantages as part of the consideration process.
Have the small journal for user notes only. A scrapbook of your thoughts / ideas / notes and things to remember.
Have the large journal for quests details and journal entries.
Find some way to have one, the other, or both open at the same time.
I don't quite get the appeal of the new Journal. What exactly is the benefit of being able to play the game while the Journal is open? I'm pretty sure most people, especially new players, can only do one thing at a time: Either read their journal or play the game.
If you are bored enough with the basic gameplay that you can read during combat (or similar), then maybe this game, and this feature, isn't really your cup of tea to begin with. Anyway, just a minor point.
What bothers me the most about this new journal system is that it doesn't elicit the illusion of "keeping" a journal at all. There is no longer any feeling of CHARNAME opening up and browsing through their trusty, weather-beaten, half-burned collection of old notes and thoughts.
Instead, the new journal feels like this slick, intrusive, out-of-universe piece of high-tech that was lazily slapped ontop of the game in order to "streamline" the experience. It clashes with the established aethestic and robs the game of a lot of personality. I can understand why it was done this way, and it's not a dealbreaker for me, but I'm not a fan to say the least.
The game isn't all that complex and most quests are pretty straight-foward. The journal is only really necessary if you are completely stuck, which is fairly rare. Other than that, it mostly adds flavour-text and gives players a chance to roleplay by recording their thoughts or reviewing their adventure. Which makes such an overly optimized journal seem kind of unnecessary.
I have no new ideas on how to fix the journal. I would simply appreciate having the old journal back, at least as an option.
PLEASE NOTE - COLOURS AND TEXT ARE MADE UP FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES ONLY.
Screen 1 - Default screen
On opening the journal with J or by pressing the Journal Icon on the main screen, a modal window opens. The journal should be openable from all game screens. The game is paused and the user gets this:
There are three main sections...
At the top, the first section, there are buttons to switch between Quests, Journal and Notes. There is also a toggle to shift between the chapters.
On the left, the second section is a breakdown of all Quests (the title of the quest only). They are grouped by two headings: Active Quests and Completed Quests. Clicking the header collapses the breakdown of quest titles, clicking it again expands it. The game remembers which headers are collapsed, so that they're always in the preferred configuration when the player opens their journal.
At the bottom of this section is a search box and button to trigger the search. This search box can search quest titles and quest text (NOTE - need to decide the behaviour once the search is triggered).
The third section is to the right. This lists all quest entries in timestamp order so that the quest log is acting as a journal.
Now the clever bit, clicking a specific quest title on the left filters the quest entries on the right. For example:
The quest entries for that specific quest are then filtered and displayed. The most recent entry is at the top, and there is a single separator between that and older entries.
Right-clicking (or long pressing on tablet/mobile) copies a quest entry and changes the screen to the notes section, in edit mode, so you can edit it and update it.
Moving on to the journal...
Clicking the middle button, toggles the journal section.
The buttons on this screen work as you would expect. The search box would filter the entries in this window to display any found text (much like the journal search in 2.3 currently works).
Right-clicking (or long pressing on tablet/mobile) copies a journal entry and changes the screen to the notes section, in edit mode, so you can edit it and update it.
Moving on to the user notes...
Clicking the third button at the top, displays your user notes.
All the user notes you've made appear here, in timestamp order.
Clicking a user-note highlights it and the buttons at the bottom change.
Add Note becomes Edit Note and the Delete Note button is no longer greyed out.
Double-clicking, or long pressing on tablet or mobile, automatically enters edit mode.
Edit mode would look something like this:
Add Note has changed to Save Note and Delete Note is still available.
Whew.... Appreciate your thoughts and comments!