Multi-Class Cleric/Mage Questions

Yuwee

Greetings folks,

I decided to start my own thread to gather information on the class in the title. I'm trying to plan my character ready for release. The playithardcore wiki has some good information but I'm a little confused, I've seen numerous sites say that gnome illusionist is the way to go but the wiki recommends I try for 18 con. Looking at the same wiki's stat information it appears there is no increase in health gain after 16 con... am I missing something here?

Character:
Gnome Illusionist
Alignment: True neutral
Starting stats I'm thinking:
STR: 15+ ?
DEX: 18
CON: 16 or 18?
INT: 18
WIS: 18
CHA:10+ ?

I thought about starting the character with 15 CON and using tomes to reach 16 but I have no idea when/where I will find one and don't want to miss out on those early health benefits. No spoilers please I played a Fighter up to where Khalid and Jaheira join years ago. I'd like to see it through to the end this time. Appreciate any advice on this matter.

Brude

Just a guess: Short races get a bonus to their saving throws, which is based on their CON. The higher the CON value, the better the bonus.

Kilivitz

For any non-warrior classes, HP bonuses are capped in +2/level, making a 17+ con only useful for having better saving throws, as Brude already pointed out.

HP bonuses you'd get from permanently increasing your CON are retroactive, so the level at which you use the tome doesn't matter.

About finding it:

It's on a cave in a wilderness area. You can go there at any time, although the way there (and the creatures you'll meet inside the cave) are too much of a challenge until your party is at least level 3 or 4 and is wielding magical weapons.

moody_mage

@Brude has it correct. Gnomes will receive an extra +1 to their saving throws when they have 18 CON despite not getting any extra hitpoints by going above 16 CON.

Probably best to start with 17 CON and using the tome get it to 18, as mentioned benefits from a high CON are retroactive and are recalculated at each level up.

Yuwee

Ah yes that explains it, thank you. I completely missed that and it was on the page I was using for my stat information.... fail.

http://www.playithardcore.com/pihwiki/index.php?title=Baldur's_Gate:_Races_and_Stats

Well that's my health issue sorted. Looks like Ill be rolling for 17 CON then, I'll to reach 18 sometime later to get the best save bonus. It's only going to take me about a week of rolling to get the stats I want ^^

moody_mage

You'll need to adjust your starting stats a bit to allow for a Gnomes racial modifiers, +1 INT, -1 WIS. You'll still be aiming for your original score (a 96 BTW) but they will be sitting slightly differently.

The highest I ever have rolled is a 98...

Jaxsbudgie

18 constitution also helps when equipping the Claw of Kazgaroth, which is pretty good for a Cleric/Mage!

Brude

Yuwee said:

Well that's my health issue sorted. Looks like Ill be rolling for 17 CON then, I'll to reach 18 sometime later to get the best save bonus. It's only going to take me about a week of rolling to get the stats I want ^^

My two cents: Don't bother, especially if you plan to play through the entire series.

The difference on most of these stats is negligible for a caster. The only one that gives a cumulative benefit is WIS for your cleric side.

Everything else? Not so much.

STR - There are plenty of strength boosting items throughout the series, and both clerics and mages have spells which temporarily boost this stat. You can gimp this, bearing in mind that there's opportunities to boost it by 2-3 points later on in the series.

DEX - The AC bonus is the same from 18-20 (-4) so you'd need a whopping 21 DEX to get an additional -1 AC. While that could be achievable, by the time you actually get it, it will be meaningless (because enemy mobs will have insanely low thac0s). There is a ranged thac0 bonus with better stats, but let's face it: you're a caster throwing rocks. You're not hitting anything anyway.

CON - As a PC mage, you have access to Find Familiar, which gives a flat boost to your HP. The shorty saving throw bonus is exactly the same from 14-17 (+4) and it maxes out at 18 with a +5. Like other stats, there's several opportunities to raise this value by 2-3 points throughout the trilogy. In other words, the extra points you spend here at character creation are expensive, given the bonus is only +1 . The only reason I can see to really pump this at the outset is if you're shooting for the mythical 20 CON automatic HP regeneration.

INT - Conventional wisdom tells you to pump this stat as a mage, but there's not an enormous difference between 17 and 19, where all benefits max out. 17 INT give you 14 spells per level with a 75% chance to successfully scribe a spell. That's more than enough for BG1, and in BG2/ToB, you'll get bonuses allowing you to max this out completely.

WIS - The only stat which gives cumulative bonuses from 13-25. Each point spent here gives clerics additional spells per day.

CHA - Shop discounts start at 16 and increase 5% for every additional point. But given there's items that boost this stat and NPCs with high starting CHA, it's totally meaningless outside some NPC reactions in BG1. As long as you don't drop it below 10, there are no drawbacks.

So, that gives you a little more wiggle room, like so:

STR: 10-11
DEX: 17-18
CON: 15
INT: 17
WIS: 17 (racial penalty)
CHA: 10

(The ranges are there depending on what choices you make later in the series.)

That's a helluva lot easier to roll than a score that sets every attribute above 15.

Yuwee

Thank you for the advice I think I'm all set, just have to wait for 30th now.

PugPug

On a related note -- and I put this here just to avoid making a new thread -- how much Int damage do mind flayers/thallids do in BG2? In other words, what do meatheads need to avoid getting 1-shot?

sandmanCCL

@PugPug I think regular mind flayers do 2 or 3 per hit, and Ulitharids do 5. My min number for intelligence on anyone is 8, to raise to 9, so then I can use protection scrolls. It's much better to dump wisdom if you're forced between the two.

@Yuwee:
I actually think mage/cleric should aim for around 12 strength because you need at least that much to have access to every type of cleric weapon while not using strength-boosting gear.

Max dexterity and intelligence. If you roll gnome, try to hit high constitution for saving throws. Wisdom only really needs to be around 15 or 16 because the bonuses to higher level wisdom don't even take effect til BG2. You won't get 5th level divine spells, for example. 16 gets you the +2 first and +2 second level spells, which is what's most important for BG1.

So those are your minimums. Charisma can be dumped if you don't want to roll all day.

Spjuv3rn

@PugPug All mindflayers drain 5 int per hit which means:

1-5 = 1 hit
6-10 = 2 hits
11-15 = 3 hits
16-20 = 4 hits
21-25 = 5 hits

Yuwee

Makes sense to post any questions about the class in this thread so feel free I don't mind. It's all interesting to me, I didn't have a clue about mindflayers or thallids until they were mentioned!

@sandmanCCL Thanks for the advice, Ill try to get the 12 STR so I have more options, saying that though if I can get more I will the extra carry weight will be a godsend to a pack rat like me.

Mungri

I'd go for 12 Str, 17 dex, 15-18 con, 17 int, 17 wis, dump cha if needed.

sandmanCCL

One of the nice things about being a solo class person is there isn't much of a call to hoard items. Outside of the really valuable gems, I don't even bother to pick them up. My inventory fills up with potions and spare scrolls and I abuse the heck out of those, so they tend to not stay with me for long.

If you REALLY need carry capacity, that's what spells are for. Level 2 arcane "Strength" is your best friend.

Mungri

When soloing I just mod in a bag of holding and unlimited ammo / potion stacking. Purely for storage convenience.