Kensai or Monk? - from returning player

SleepingSamurai

Hello everyone,

I'm returning player to Baldur's Gate games. I've done two playthroughs of BG2 + TOB 10 years ago and recently bought BG:EE and BG:EE 2, hoping to enjoy whole saga from beginning to end this time.

Back then I was playing as Cavalier and while it was fun i'm looking for something else this time. I'd like my character to somewhat resemble Geralt, and by that i mean character which focus more on speed and agility, than strenght. I narrowed my ideas to Kensai and Monk.

Which one would you advise to returning player like me? or perhaps there is better choice?

Thank you in advance.

alceryes

If I was to choose between kensai or monk, I'd go monk.
Or maybe a gnome swashy instead - spectacular thieving bonuses, no negatives to primary stats, bonus to saves. Put two pips in dagger for melee and ranged coverage and never look back! They really make great swashbucklers or fighter/thieves.

Anywho, welcome to the forums!

JumboWheat01

As in Geralt from the Witcher series? (I really need to play more of that.)

Totally Fighter/Mage. Just forgo the Elven Chain Mail as long as you feel you can, rely on spells for protection and dance around with long swords. I'd recommend an Elven one, you'll be a little more fragile... if they can hit you, and you get that sweet sword bonus.

alceryes

To add to @JumboWheat01's suggestion, if you save up your gold and steal/sell everything that isn't nailed down, you can buy a particularly excellent robe, that is perfect for the F/M character, fairly early in BG1.

JumboWheat01

It's not stealing. It's liberating. Those poor items were being forgotten or locked up against their will.

Grond0

Monks are a great class, but if you've not played with them before you may find they're a bit vulnerable. However, if you're using a party that shouldn't be too much of a concern.

SleepingSamurai

Thank you all for response!

@alceryes Gnome sounds interesting, however i think Viconia wouldn't want to romance gnome character in BG2

@JumboWheat01 Yes, Geralt the Witcher.To be honest, i've only played first Witcher, tried Witcher 2 but i quit after first two chapters. I'm more familiar with Witcher books.
Fighter/Mage multi is cool, i thought about this option for some time, but this playthrough i'd like to have single class character. Firstly because, i'm yet to master magical system in BG, and secondly, because i really don't see Geralt's character as mage, at least according to books. He uses signs very rarely in whole saga(at least this is how i rembember it) and they seem to be rather primitive kind of magic, comparing to what mages can do in witcher universe.

@Grond0 Does Kensai have any advantages over Monks? in terms of roleplaying i hate that monk has to be lawful character, i had the same problem when playing Paladin. I tend to act as neutral/neutral good character.

Archaos

I would actually consider Geralt to be a Stalker or some kind of Ranger.
Witchers are monster slayers after all. And Rangers do get some basic spells but also some arcane ones.

Geralt is specialized in multiple weapons but generally favors two. A silver and a steel sword. So dual-wielding two swords isn't too far off.
Geralt wears leathers mainly. He's also quite nimble and can definitely "assassinate" (Backstab) but also sneak.

Either Stalker or Blade to make a Witcher, personally.

Grond0

SleepingSamurai said:

@Grond0 Does Kensai have any advantages over Monks? in terms of roleplaying i hate that monk has to be lawful character, i had the same problem when playing Paladin. I tend to act as neutral/neutral good character.

Kensais have much higher HPs so are considerably less vulnerable, particularly in BG1. They also do a lot more damage, though by ToB monks are a match for other fighter types. I normally play solo, so the saving throw benefit to a shorty kensai is a big issue, but that will be less of a concern in a party. If you want to play a good character then Azuredge makes a nice weapon for a kensai ...

JumboWheat01

Kensai can also start with 18/XX strength, while Monks can only start with 18 strength.

Archaos said:

I would actually consider Geralt to be a Stalker or some kind of Ranger.
Witchers are monster slayers after all. And Rangers do get some basic spells but also some arcane ones.

Geralt is specialized in multiple weapons but generally favors two. A silver and a steel sword. So dual-wielding two swords isn't too far off.
Geralt wears leathers mainly. He's also quite nimble and can definitely "assassinate" (Backstab) but also sneak.

Either Stalker or Blade to make a Witcher, personally.

Now there's an idea. I always forget about Rangers. Plus they have (very) limited casting, which would still fit in the Witcher theme.

ThacoBell

Monk is more tanky, with amazing resistances at high levels. On the flipside, Kensai are more offense, trading all defense for the best melee damage output in the game (without magical aid).

alceryes

SleepingSamurai said:

Thank you all for response!
@alceryes Gnome sounds interesting, however i think Viconia wouldn't want to romance gnome character in BG2

You know what they say, "Once you go gnome, you never go home!"
Here is the glorious little stab-rabbit himself. He's all out of bubblegum so he's currently kicking ass all over the sword coast with a custom 4-pack party.

Abi_Dalzim

I tend to see Kensai as inferior to Berserkers, so I'd go with Monk instead.

ThacoBell

Abi_Dalzim said:

I tend to see Kensai as inferior to Berserkers, so I'd go with Monk instead.

But but, they do different things! That's comparing apples and pears.

JumboWheat01

thedamages said:

Abi_Dalzim said:

I tend to see Kensai as inferior to Berserkers, so I'd go with Monk instead.

But but, they do different things! That's comparing apples and pears.

That reminds me of this fruit I had that was essentially half apple, half pear. It was quite tasty.

And considering how they're both fighters, it would be more like comparing a granny smith apple to a mcintosh apple.

KramerTheWeird

thedamages said:

Abi_Dalzim said:

I tend to see Kensai as inferior to Berserkers, so I'd go with Monk instead.

But but, they do different things! That's comparing apples and pears.

That's taxonomically accurate, because apples and pears are in the same family (Rosaceae). Fighters could be the family, the kits would be considered the Genus, and the difference of pure kits or dual clas could be the Species

Sorry for nerding out on biology.

Anyway ..

Kensai behave very much like a regular fighter except they are offtank simce they never will have armor or bracers (unless you dual to theif and use UAI). Monks eventually become super tanky (but are suspectivle to crits, no helmet.. ioun stones work still?) and have a ton of immunities but hit less often (less ways to improve APR and THAC0). Thematically they are similar, but mechanically are pretty different.

SleepingSamurai

Thank you all for being helpful!

alceryes said:

You know what they say, "Once you go gnome, you never go home!"
Here is the glorious little stab-rabbit himself. He's all out of bubblegum so he's currently kicking ass all over the sword coast with a custom 4-pack party.

If there is a mod that enables gnome characters to romance Viconia, you'll convince me to your idea

@Archaos
I believe you're right about Stalker being closest thing to Witcher.However, is it harder class to play compared to Monk or Kensai?


@KramerTheWeird

Would you recommend any of those two class to begginer player?

SleepingSamurai

After all your comments i leaning towards Monk or Stalker. As i understand Kensai is quite fragile in defensive and i fear that it might cause some problems for me. I'm still torn with Monk and Stalker however. I'm quite sure that i'm noob right now in BG games and i don't want to pick class which will be to hard to handle, especially in the beginning.
Are those hard classes? Should i pick easier class?

JumboWheat01

In that case, you'd want the Stalker. Monk is a very back-loaded class, and while it isn't the absolute terror to one's sanity at lower levels, it's still more difficult than someone who would have much better HP and APR. All you have to worry about as a Stalker is that you can't throw the heavy armor on one, but-whoop-dee-doo, you can't have heavy armor and sneak at the same time anyway.

God

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5HjOupL6dA

Tony Shalhoub is your man.

That's how I usually roleplay Candlekeep monks, anyway.

KramerTheWeird

@SleepingSamurai as long as you reload and adjust the difficulty no class is really that hard. But of the three you mention, they each have their share of challenges..

Stalker: like thieves, the Stalker has to worry about positioning. You want to be directly behind a target to backstab. Also, stalkers can only wear leather and studded armor so cannot take much hits, so you have to pay attention to when they're attacked. They often act as a scout in the party so timing stealth and finding shady spots when you need to restealth can be tricky and some people don't want to hassle (you don't necessarily have go be a scout).

Kensai: have the same issues with being hit and positioning but slightly worse. A stalker can eventually wear leather armor that is as good as plate armor (late into SoA and ToB, but a Kensai will always have terrible AC. A Stalker has some better potential at escaping with their haste spells and improved invisibility compared to Kensai but you can also have a mage cast these spells, too.

Both Stalker and Kensai are like a skirmish class... get in, do some damage and get out ASAP. Stalkers because of their stealth, are better suited for taking out mages before they can get defenses up. Kensai are better suited for assisting a tank in your party (such as a pure fighter, barbarian, or a fighter/cleric multiclass) take down a tough enemy, or mowing through a crowd of weaker mobs, often one shotting them.

Monk: starts out like a kensai that can't do much damage. Because of their speed, they are best at kiting with a sling, darts or throwing daggers for the first few levels. Once they start getting AC and the fist upgrades (lvl 5ish) they start to improve. They become less of a skirmish class and are able to tank some more. Eventually they will be very strong, and can take a beating, even if they have less hitpoints compared to other tanks.


Whereas kensai and stalker are always needing attention and micromanaging (mind you, not as bad as some classes), a Monk starts out worse but towards the end of BG1 soon becomes easier to play and almost becomes autopilot due to how tough they get. You could always start in SoA, right when a monk starts to shine.

Abi_Dalzim

thedamages said:

But but, they do different things! That's comparing apples and pears.

They're both fighters, and I'd take immunities from raging over hitting harder with Kai. If you play a fighter, you're a lot more likely to die from some annoying status effect as opposed to not hitting hard enough.

ThacoBell

KramerTheWeird said:

thedamages said:

Abi_Dalzim said:

I tend to see Kensai as inferior to Berserkers, so I'd go with Monk instead.

But but, they do different things! That's comparing apples and pears.

That's taxonomically accurate, because apples and pears are in the same family (Rosaceae). Fighters could be the family, the kits would be considered the Genus, and the difference of pure kits or dual clas could be the Species

Sorry for nerding out on biology.

Anyway ..

Kensai behave very much like a regular fighter except they are offtank simce they never will have armor or bracers (unless you dual to theif and use UAI). Monks eventually become super tanky (but are suspectivle to crits, no helmet.. ioun stones work still?) and have a ton of immunities but hit less often (less ways to improve APR and THAC0). Thematically they are similar, but mechanically are pretty different.

That is actually what I was going for, funnily enough.

Archaos

SleepingSamurai said:

@Archaos
I believe you're right about Stalker being closest thing to Witcher.However, is it harder class to play compared to Monk or Kensai?

Both the Kensai and Monk are painful to play in BG1EE, especially in the beginning.
The Kensai can never wear any armor or shields on you have to rely on magic items to increase your AC.
Same with the Monk. But even more painful since you don't get the insane damage of a dual-wielding Kensai, though it's more defensive.

The Stalker can wear Studded Leather but you can also use the various ranged weapons in BGEE, to make your life much easier.
You also get percentage STR, unlike the Monk. The backstab is also nice.

The most accurate Witcher is probably the Stalker but the Kensai does more damage consistently later on and the Monk becomes a beast in BG2EE but it has nothing to do with a Witcher.

The Kensai is basically: "I do an insane amount of melee damage but that's about it."
The Monk is basically: "I eventually become super defensive, with lots of movement, damage and resistances".
The Stalker is more balanced from start to finish with lots of variety (dual-wield, sword-shield, archery, stealth, spells).

FinneousPJ

FMT. While I realise you don't want a mage, some magic fits the character well. In a 3 way multi the mage part is not overpowering the other aspects.

SleepingSamurai

@FinneousPJ That was my initial thought. And multiclass sounds fun, but for first time i'd prefer specialising
in single class, just for simplicity. Thanks for idea, though.

@KramerTheWeird @Archaos You convinced me to try Monk. If it'd go terribly wrong for me, i'll restart with Stalker or Wizard Slayer.

Last question, off-topic.
What are your thoughts on Siege of Dragonspear? Do you think that SoD is essential for complete Baldur's Gate playthrough, or is it something i can skip now, being first timer in BG1?

FinneousPJ

@SleepingSamurai I don't think it's essential, but on the other hand why not play it...

unavailable

wizard dual classed to barbarian.

JumboWheat01

We've gone all these years without Siege of Dragonspear, so I think it's safe to say you can skip it.

Archaos

Well, you can skip Tales of the Sword Coast as well but why would you?
At least Siege of Dragonspear is more important to the story than the randomness of ToSC (they're just extra areas and quests unconnected to the story).

I would definitely go through all of BG1EE, SoD and BG2EE for the complete experience.

SleepingSamurai

Thanks for response.

I know, more is better. I was asking only from financial standpoint.