IWDEE and spells

SirBatince

I just did my first solo spellcaster run on IWD and I'm having this weird feeling I gotta share and check if it isn't just me. I ran a mage/cleric

Is it me or both divine and wizardry spells are full of problems, both in effect and progression?

For starters, a ton of spells (in both categories) are nerfed into the ground, even the ones that were less useful in BG. For instance chill touch doesn't deal punch damage anymore, ghoul touch is one-time only. Cause wounds and Harm all have saves even though they have 9 casting time and need you to be pointblank in range (don't worry if you have insane AC, the dozen critical hits will still make sure to take care of it). I understand stuff like Death Spell probably deserve a nerf, but chill touch?

I was also looking forward to use flame blade at divine level 2, only to find out it's gone. I suppose it's druid only now but that's still extremely dissapointing. Unlike in BG flame blade seems essential and godtier in IWD.

Wizard spells are way too few and far between. You only get the good scrolls later when you don't actually need them anymore. There's pretty much little reason to not run a sorcerer. I mean, phantom blade at Dorn's Deep when you're 75% into the game? Enchanted Weapon in Lonelywood only? And I can't even begin to imagine how it is for the folks who play with scribing failure.

I suggest Orrick get his crap together and act like Thalanthyr / Ribald, having a ton of scrolls like you expect him to from the start. Just increase the price to hell, exactly like Colan.

I also think evil clerics should not lose out on Cure Critical wounds / Heal. The anti-healing spells are balanced out by having to put yourself in danger, massive casting time and costing a spell slot. Oh and the saves gotta go. Evil Turn Undead has also always been much less good than simpling chunking stuff at will.

Flame Blade needs to come back to divine aswell. Druids are monsters in IWD and they certainly don't need FB exclusivity.

thoughts?

Wowo

Well id argue that clerics are the most powerful class in IWDee.

SharGuidesMyHand

Probably the biggest example of spell nerfing in IWD is that sleep spells now allow the enemies to awaken after a single hit.

The reduced quantity of available mage scrolls in IWD is something many people have complained about.

SirBatince

Surprised there's so little response to this legitimate thread. It seemed pretty constructive.

I suppose it's true when they say IWDEE sales are little compared to BG.

Wowo

SharGuidesMyHand said:

Probably the biggest example of spell nerfing in IWD is that sleep spells now allow the enemies to awaken after a single hit.

The reduced quantity of available mage scrolls in IWD is something many people have complained about.

Sleep is better that way and lack of Mage scrolls is a good campaign quality (easily circumvented by being a sorcerer or going to the expansion early).

ineth

SirBatince said:

both divine and wizardry spells are full of problems, [...] For starters, a ton of spells (in both categories) are nerfed into the ground

What do you mean, nerfed? Weren't they always like this in IWD?

Maybe you mean compared to BG, but IWD is not a BG expansion, it is a separate game series and it's not a problem that it does some things differently than BG.

SirBatince said:

Wizard spells are way too few and far between. [...] There's pretty much little reason to not run a sorcerer.

The addition of the BG2 Sorcerer kit in the (otherwise very polished) IWD:EE release was balance breaking and possibly a mistake, yes.

In the original IWD, there was no Sorcerer and the sparse spell scroll placement was very deliberate. Maybe it's something that should scale with difficulty level, but it's not a bad thing altogether. It's a perfectly legitimate game design/balancing mechanic, and it fits the setting of the inhospitable, cut-off-from-the-world frozen North.

SirBatince

ineth said:

SirBatince said:

both divine and wizardry spells are full of problems, [...] For starters, a ton of spells (in both categories) are nerfed into the ground

What do you mean, nerfed? Weren't they always like this in IWD?

Maybe you mean compared to BG, but IWD is not a BG expansion, it is a separate game series and it's not a problem that it does some things differently than BG.

It seemed like one of the goals of IWDEE was to "normalize" things with BGEE. The addition of BG2 spells, the scroll art, ect.

It's difficult to consider IWD "something else" from BG when they're all in the same universe, same engine, same assets, same edition, nearly same monsters.

I always thought the biggest difference from BG was the complete lack of voice-acting except for the really important characters.

I also thought IWDee was also what was "to come" for BG 1.4 until 2.0 came along.

God

I'll just say I'm a fan of IWD's Sleep spell mechanic. Can't even force myself to use it in BG because it's such an OP instant win button.