Some introspection for my first full playthrough of BG1
Peldin
Member Posts: 46
Hey guys. Besides the last couple weeks, I haven't played BG for a decade or so. I vaguely remember playing a halfling Fighter/Thief back then and never actually did beat the game so I decided I wanted to try Gnome Fighter/Illusionist.
I chose to play with what is commonly referred to here as the "canon" party: Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir. I wanted to explore everything, so after going through the main story line to defeat Mulahey in the Nashkel Mines, I decided to go to all the areas on the map starting from south and working my way back north.
As you can probably guess, this made for some really difficult challenges, as I found myself in Durlag's Tower before even going to the Bandit Camp. Having never been in Durlag's Tower, I ended up spending the next week figuring out how to beat different encounters. I will say that I'm slightly disappointed that the game creators decided to put Durlag's Tower in the middle of the map but put Ulgoth's Beard in the far NE corner of the map. I'm sure I'm not the only player who's explored Durlag's Tower, and then LATER, found all these quests FOR Durlag's tower up in Ulgoth's Beard (I really wish I could remember where I sold/stored/dropped that Soultaker dagger).
Anyway, the purpose of this post is for me to explain some of my choices throughout BG1 and get some feedback on how I can go through BG2, and also any feedback on how I could have done things differently in BG1 would also be greatly appreciated. I'm going to use spoiler tags just to condense the explanations for those that are turned off by walls of text.
1) Proficiencies:
2) Playstyle of Fighter/Mage:
3) What is up with AoE spells?
4) There are a lot of other spells I couldn't find much use for.
5) My go-to combat strategy ended up being a little redundant:
6) Here are some spells I wish I could have used more:
7) Scouting is something I never did:
8) Any other topics of advice you guys might have for me as I look forward to tackling BG2 in the near future?
I chose to play with what is commonly referred to here as the "canon" party: Imoen, Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc, and Dynaheir. I wanted to explore everything, so after going through the main story line to defeat Mulahey in the Nashkel Mines, I decided to go to all the areas on the map starting from south and working my way back north.
As you can probably guess, this made for some really difficult challenges, as I found myself in Durlag's Tower before even going to the Bandit Camp. Having never been in Durlag's Tower, I ended up spending the next week figuring out how to beat different encounters. I will say that I'm slightly disappointed that the game creators decided to put Durlag's Tower in the middle of the map but put Ulgoth's Beard in the far NE corner of the map. I'm sure I'm not the only player who's explored Durlag's Tower, and then LATER, found all these quests FOR Durlag's tower up in Ulgoth's Beard (I really wish I could remember where I sold/stored/dropped that Soultaker dagger).
Anyway, the purpose of this post is for me to explain some of my choices throughout BG1 and get some feedback on how I can go through BG2, and also any feedback on how I could have done things differently in BG1 would also be greatly appreciated. I'm going to use spoiler tags just to condense the explanations for those that are turned off by walls of text.
1) Proficiencies:
So as I said, I went Fighter/Illusionist. I put 2 proficiency points in Longbow, 2 in Long Sword, and I think I have 2 in Two Weapon Style. After seeing some of the weapons out there, I still feel "ok" with this choice, although from reading through some posts here, perhaps I should have better prepared myself for BG2 by only putting one point in longbow so I could start putting points in scimitar/axe/ninjato or something like that. Thoughts?
2) Playstyle of Fighter/Mage:
I've read that a lot of people play Fighter/Mage as a ranged character until they get a Robe of the Archmagi, and then use buffs to give themselves enough AC to be a frontline melee/caster. I, however, found myself using Ankheg for most of the game. Maybe I should have played a Fighter/Cleric because I just couldn't get away from the armor. For almost every difficult encounter I ran in to, I would re-load, take off my armor, cast buffs on myself like Blurr, Mirror Image, Protection from Evil, Haste, and either Minor Spell Deflection or Minor Globe of Invulnerability. Late in the game I got Stoneskin and Wraithform (loved Stoneskin. Never tested Wraithform). Then I would put my armor back on and go in to combat, usually right after casting Bless from Jaheira (I also would have her use Defensive Harmony near the beginning of combat as well). Do any of you play a F/M like this where you only use spells on your F/M outside of combat? In playing like this, did I really gimp myself? Going forward to BG2 do you have suggestions on alternate forms of playstyle?
3) What is up with AoE spells?
Now the aoe spells that only affect enemies seem great to me, like Horror (if it actually lands), but other spells are just down right annoying to try and use. Fireball for example. I feel like there are very few times where I can actually use that spell/wand without dealing a bunch of damage to my front line guys. Same with Web and Stinking Cloud. They just seem WAY more hassle than they are worth unless I do something like cast them on the edge of my view knowing that it will hit enemies I can't even see yet. In fact, the only time I think I ever used an aoe spell (without re-loading) was against those fission oozes in Durlag's Tower. I had Dynahier use monster summoning, then haste, then ran my party away, while I had her and my main character use fireballs to finish them off while they were distracted by the summoned monsters. How do you guys make use of spells like Web, Stinking Cloud, Confusion, etc.
4) There are a lot of other spells I couldn't find much use for.
I never used any sort of charm spell. I never used Vampiric Touch, Ghoul Touch, Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp, or any other sort of melee oriented spell (although I'm sure there must be some uses for them, especially for a fighter/mage). I also had issue using spells like Lightning Bolt or Aghannazar's Scorcher. If I tried to use it from where Dynaheir normally is (on the back line) then I would inevitably hit one or more of my front line with the spell. If I tried to position her to where she could use it without causing damage to someone else, it would usually end up just being a waste of time because by the time she walked over there, I could have just cast magic missile and slung a couple bolts at him and done more damage anyway. There are also a slew of "white color" spells that I never found much of a reason to memorize. I'm sure everyone agrees that Infravision is completely worthless. Detect Invisibility might have come in handy a few times but the few times where I was backstabbed (Durlag's) I just healed through it after killing them. Invisible mages always became visible as soon as they started casting something so I would immediately interrupt with my hasted party. There are plenty of other spells that I just don't find worth memorizing in place buffs or damage spells.
5) My go-to combat strategy ended up being a little redundant:
I found the easiest way to deal with tough battles was through sheer force, buffing up my tanks with protection spells and then using haste/bless to mow through opponents quickly before they could do nasty aoe spells that either did a lot of damage or immobilized my guys. In doing so, I found Dynaheir to be rather lackluster because all she really seemed to do was provide haste spells and protection from ______. I'm sure I could have made more use out of her and my fighter/mage as far as offensive spells went. However, without knowing exactly what to expect, how can I know what spells to memorize besides just multiple copies of haste, blur, mirror image, etc?
6) Here are some spells I wish I could have used more:
I used Glitterdust once on the final fight (don't know if it even worked on Sarevok or not). I used Horror on occasion against large groups but found it mostly annoying to have to chase everyone down. Dispel Magic seemed to be stupid. Since anything challenging is above my level, all Dispel Magic seemed to do was peel off my own buffs and leave there's completely untouched. Remove Magic would be awesome but apparently it's only in BG2 so I'll have to wait for that one. There was only one time that I was able to successfully use Skull Trap and it was a fight in Durlag's Tower against the Warders. Minor Sequencer I found extremely useful for a F/M as I could use it to buff myself with Blur/Mirror Image in the middle of a fight but I only used it a few times and never used it with Dynaheir. I thought I would use monster summoning a lot more often than I actually did. The limit on the number of monsters makes it really annoying though, especially when you use a wand to summon monsters, and then something like Animate Dead or Call Woodland Beings ends up going to waste bc that one wand summoned your max number of monsters. With Jaheria being a Fighter/Druid, there are a lot of Priest spells I didn't get to experience as well and in general I found her to basically do nothing but cast Bless and Defensive Harmony and heals. Other than that she stood in the back lodging bullets with Dynaheir. In BG2 I may decide to move away from the canon party and drop khalid/jaheira for a cleric or fighter/cleric and someone else.
7) Scouting is something I never did:
I wish I would've made more use of Imoen. I didn't dual class her to mage as I've read a lot of people do. I left her as a full time thief and focused mainly on Find Traps and Lockpicking. I'm planning to start BG2 soon so I'm wondering, is this something I should do more to A) cut back on the amount of times I have to reload and 
make use of my thief's ability to backstab? Is scouting something that people commonly do? I typically just kept my tank in the lead and had everyone right behind him unless I knew it was a dungeon with traps that I needed Imoen to disarm (usually after reloading because I got hit by them).
make use of my thief's ability to backstab? Is scouting something that people commonly do? I typically just kept my tank in the lead and had everyone right behind him unless I knew it was a dungeon with traps that I needed Imoen to disarm (usually after reloading because I got hit by them).8) Any other topics of advice you guys might have for me as I look forward to tackling BG2 in the near future?
I know this is the BG1 forum thread but I'm mostly referring to choices that are also made in BG1, like combat tactics, spell usage, and other general playstyle topics. Would you recommend that I play through BG1 again as a different class with a different party before moving on to BG2? I really wouldn't be opposed to that at all. I do however want to have the experience of completing both games at least for the storyline as well as getting to play with all the new levels/spells/items of BG2.
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Just my 2 cents.
but I think the best way to play, is play the whole thing yourself experience it fresh and whatever choices you make, are made whether for better or for worse
although in bg2, there are 2 things that I can really think of that might make your game much more manageable help lower the frustration a bit
critical spells:
you will notice that in bg2 there is a lot more magic going on, mages and monsters will be covered in layers of protections and at times it will seem like they are invincible at times, so there are some critical spells that you should always have memorized and for certain reasons, I will simplify it as much as possible
TRUE SEEING:
this spell is super crucial, in bg2, illusion magic is very powerful, especially when the baddies are using it, always have 1 or 2 of these memorized at all times and you will thank yourself later ( its a level 5 cleric spell/ level 6 mage spell) *also note if enemies are improved invisible you will not be able to cast spells on them, hence another reason why this spell is key
BREACH:
this spell will dispel any spell protection that protects a creature from physical damage, like the protection from weapon spells, stoneskin, mage armors ect. although if a wizard has multiple of these protections it will dispel the highest one first ( which will always be the protection from weapons one) very VERY useful spell if you want your physical attacks to be effective, again keep 2 of these memorized, maybe even 3 ( its a level 5 mage spell)
RUBY RAY OF REVERSAL:
much like breach except this spell dispels protections that would protect the creature from spell attacks instead ( like spell turnings/deflections, globes of invulnerability etc) so if you like maximizing on spell offense having 1 or maybe 2 ( although 1 might be enough) memorized will get the job done ( this is a level 7 mage spell)
so with that being said, this is probably the easiest way to counter spell protections with as least confusion as possible, because bg2 has lots of spell protections and lots of spells to counter them, so sometimes it can be a bit of a cluster, but with true seeing, breach, ruby ray, you should be able to dispel any protection combination out there
end game bg2 spoiler ( although kind of not really, but I guess still kind of is)
at the end of bg2 ( not ToB) there are going to be 5 trails, and depending on what you say, will depend on what reward you get, and these rewards are permanent, and can be anything from +10 % magic resistance to +200 000 XP boost, so unless you like surprises you may want to check out which trials offer which reward and how to achieve the ones you want
because some rewards might not fit your character that well, while the opposite one would fit better, so that might be something to do some research on if you desire to
so with all this being said, no matter how you set up your character, no matter how you make up your team, the game will always be beatable, no matter what combination you have
and no what sometimes, its better to go into a game (especially an RPG game) kind of in the dark, because then you could/would use strategies that you never thought of before adding a bit of flavor to your game
based on what I've seen you post, I don't see you having any game breaking trouble in getting through SoA or ToB
I guess my mentality of playing is more of a "power gamer" in the sense that I do like to min/max, but for essentially a first time play through, I was really more interested in exploring everything and doing as many quests as I possibly could. However, I do like to abide by at least a "loose" sense of realistic roleplay. By this, I mean I don't like to reload and then cast a bunch of fireballs in to the black fog just because an encounter is difficult.
After reading your reply, I get the feeling that F/M is more of a tanky melee rather than a full on tank. Perhaps I should have let Minsc or Khalid be my main tank with a shield and had my main character right behind with the choice of buffs + dual wield or nukes/support + bow. I was actually doing that early in the game but only because I didn't have good swords or spells anyway. I'm getting excited about BG2 now as I look forward to using my main character in more versatile ways.
@sarevok57 Thank you for the helpful advice for BG2. And I completely agree with you. There is no right or wrong way to play. I am really looking forward to subsequent play throughs using different classes. I'm already thinking my next play through is going to be a class that I haven't even seen from my party (most likely another multiclass) and I'm going to choose completely different party members. Perhaps even choose evil characters just to get a completely different perspective on BG.
I really really appreciate the advice on spells and the heads up about end game. I think the spells are the most difficult for me to master because the descriptions aren't as detailed as I would like and it's really hard to find information on what stacks with what. For example, it took me a while to realize Reflect Image doesn't stack with Mirror Image, and it was really frustrating to learn that Minor Globe of Invulnerability blocked beneficial spells like Haste! lol
Did you enjoy yourself?
Because if the answer is yes, then you have played the game the "correct" way. And you have seemed to have played it very well.
Also just to note, Durlag and Ulgoth's Beard were originally part of an expansion for after you finished BG. I think it's a shame they were both put into the main game rather than being kept as as "after Sarevok party outings", something you can do to chill after defeating the person who's been trying to kill you the whole game.
I find it difficult to use lightning bolt without hitting my melee. Although typically, I'm thinking of indoor fights. It seemed to me that MOST of the challenging fights were inside, usually in relatively small spaces where spells that aren't enemy specific or single-target are extremely difficult to use without being detrimental to my own party members.
I think something that I kinda regret with my playthrough is that I went from south to north clearing every map after the Nashkel Mines. This put me in Durlag's much sooner than I should have been there. I spent about 2 weeks playing this game, and I'd say 5-6 days of it was Durlag's Tower. I think I was around level 5 on my single-class characters when I went there. My main and Jaheira might have only been level 4/4 or 5/4 starting out. It was pretty rough at first but once my guys were around level 6 and 7 it was much easier. The final Demon Knight was easier for me than the Warders. My issue then was that everything else became pretty easy to just mow through with haste/bless. I plowed through the Bandit Camp and Cloakwood too easily. Several fights in Baldur's Gate were much easier than I expected, probably because my level was too high. Perhaps for BG2 I should up the difficulty from Normal to Core or something? I think I would find it really annoying though to fail to scribe a scroll to my spellbook. That's my major concern.
In my experience, Chromatic Orb was less useful than Magic Missile. I think I am definitely too conservative with my spell casting. I tend to save my spells for more challenging encounters, and in those encounters, Chromatic Orb's secondary effect was getting resisted so I stopped memorizing it in favor of the pure damage from Magic Missile. I think in BG2 I will try to be more liberal with my mage's spells and just rest if he/she runs out.
On another note, what's up with mods? Is it something I should start considering now that I've beaten BG1 or should I wait until subsequent runs to play around with mods? One thing I would be EXTREMELY interested in would be a mod that would show me a radius ring of the aoe spell I'm casting. For example, if a spell is 30 ft radius, when I select to cast that spell, I would love for a mod to give me a 30ft ring around my cursor so that I could do things like place the edge right outside of where my tank is standing and still hit the guy he's in melee combat with. Is there even a mod like that?
but with those 2 protection spells cast on your melee guys ( fire and lightning) you can go bananas with fireballs and lightning bolts and have no worries for your melee chums to get ousted
the thing about chromatic orb is, that it has 2 effects, the first effect is damage ( which I believe has no save) and then there is a secondary effect ( like stunning or paralyzing, or even straight up killin' a baddie) although these effects are based on level, and the higher level you are, the more powerful the effect, but the problem is, the second effect enemies get to make a save with a +6 bonus, so that is probably why you have seen enemies more often than not get affected by it because they have such a huge save bonus
when it comes to mods, it is completely based on personal preference, more or less the EEs have already done most of the "mod" work for you, and if you have never played the game before, then you aren't missing out on much, if you find the game just WAY to easy, there are mods that just crank the AI into the stratosphere and make the game much more difficult if you wish, but other than that, it is as I said, just based on preference, there really isn't necessarily any mods out there that you MUST HAVE because again, mods are just preference on game play mechanics and so on
and when it comes to a mod that shows you the blast radius of radial spells, that has actually been asked before, ( since as far as i know, i believe there is no current mod that does this) but no doubt it has been buried in the forum archives somewhere and forgotten, maybe you could make a feature request to have it implemented ( and feature requests have been implemented in the past)
oh and one other thing, when you start SoA, I highly suggest not going to watchers keep until you hit ToB, because it will be the same scenario you had with bg1 doing durlag's tower at a low level, watchers keep in SoA will crank your party XP and give you sweetski items that will make you steam roll through SoA, so I say wait until ToB before you touch watcher's keep, you will thank yourself later
I would definitely like to avoid another situation where I go to one place too early and struggle through it, and then when I finally get through it, I steamroll through the next few chapters of the story.
Perhaps I should look up a BG2 guide (even a BG1 too for my next play through) that can give me a list of areas in order of difficulty/level. I'm afraid to try to read through guides because I don't want a walkthrough (if that makes any sense). I still want to explore the game for myself for the most part.
One place is added in original SoA, the Watcher's Keep, but you can avoid it 'till ToB if you want
As for playing on Core... I think I'm going to have to agree with you. It's how the game was designed. That's the difficulty I should play on. However, the weird thing is that it puts you on Normal by default, so I'm not sure how to take that. Possibly Beamdog just trying to be more new-player friendly?
When you're playing two games at once, how do you decide which one you play that day? Is it just whatever you feel like, or are you going back and forth after you clear a specific area or group of areas?
Another point might be to turn off your AI (there's a button in the bottom right of the UI - looks like a lantern). Then you can throw a spell ahead of your vanguard for enemies to charge into. A fireball in the middle of a web full of baddies will cause havoc! Then your scrappers can mop up anything that gets through.
I've never encountered a bug where the casters cast unwanted spells when set to "standard attack", or "ranged attack", but I've heard of it. Isn't that part of the "advanced AI" settings? You're supposed to be able to disable spell casting by unchecking a box in that interface, I think.
I like the idea of standard and ranged attack. Hopefully it won't default back to Standard AI or whatever it did in BG1. Although, I think it would be interesting to do a play through where you only use AI and never manually fight any battle. I wonder what difficulty setting you'd have to play on to actually win, lol
As far as AI goes, I find it useful. I never played with it on until the 2.0 update (Here's why). I've got really minimal settings, though. Everyone's set to Attack Enemy and Prefer Ranged, and Imoen and Rasaad are set to Detect Traps, and that's it. Nobody casts a spell or goes rushing into melee without my permission. This way, if I forget to give someone orders, at least they're doing something useful.
On a side note, try charming that old mad mage Arcand in the map with Sirines and lots of Ogres. Make sure to check out his spell list.
Also AoE spells... those just take practice. I basically picked up the ability to toss a fireball that burns every enemy including the ones in melee with my fighters when I was playing IWD1 (Dragon's Eye anyone?)...
(Yet I still have a hard time getting my Skull Traps right.)
I've seen a lot of really good weapons mentioned on these forums. I don't even remember them all but I've heard Celestial Fury and Flail of Ages mentioned. Isn't there also a really good katana? Maybe long sword and long bow weren't the best choices for power gaming, but oh well. For power gaming purposes, what should I put my future proficiency points in?
- do you want more attacks per round? If yes, scimitar is great. A fighter/mage multi will not really need them at all, they will just make him even more ridiculous.
- do you want to wield one of the coolest weapons in the game? If yes, katana is great.
Thoughts?