Twin Peaks - damn how great!

TStael

I've had Twin Peaks original as box set for a year or two, but could never bring myself to view it alone, because I remembered it as quite suspenseful, and my teen self having been quite scared.

My friend felt the same, but this past weekend we got together and binged.

And damn!

Be it realising that Cooper is actually as much creepy as "hawt" - or fixating how those traffic lights swayed in the darkness, or the mother of Laura screaming her pain down a displaced telephone receiver - Twin Peaks is too amazing.

It is still a bit scary - but what DVD binge we had, and how much any cinematographically or thematically ambitious TV series owns to Twin Peaks!

"Are we falling... falling... in love?"

So much look fwd to season 3 - with fear it will not be as good...

Anyone else?

mf2112

Oh yeah, TP was awesome. The new episodes got delayed though, really hope they get everything worked out.

TStael

mf2112 said:

Oh yeah, TP was awesome. The new episodes got delayed though, really hope they get everything worked out.

I frankly was afraid to reboot Twin Peaks because I remember I was quite afraid about the horror elements. We still had to unload, but we just rejoiced how much we could enjoy it now, and better.

At my immature best, I only recall thinking Agent Cooper was "hawt" - but in that pilot, goodness me how creepy he was too!

At the same time - I now ask: was there no more compelling impetus than Laura Palmer being vulnerable and desirable and young, and "having secrets."

At that I am torn. Hope season three could be more compelling than that.

mf2112

I did read from David Lynch that if it couldn't be done right, then they wouldn't do it. I would like to see it, but not at any cost.

TStael

@mf2112 - there was actually a spat between Lynch and TV company producing the new episodes, where for a moment Lynch announced he would not be directing the new searies becasue the budget was inadequate to fulfill his artistic vision.

Woe is me how I despared, but things got patched up, so I am really hopeful that the new episodes will be good. Really, here's hoping!!! Would be quite terrible if such ground-breaking classic would be follwed up by something very mediocre...

I have to say that in recent times, I've grown to love and respect TV series a lot, and best series in my view trump cinema: thanks to the chance for slow-burning build up of characters and storylines. And I genuinely think that Twin Peaks was the first, in terms of pushing the ambition and quality of TV cinematography and story-telling towards level of films.

I'm proud I've kept strong and kept off the DVDs in view we agreed to watch the series together with my friend... Look fwd to some friendly binging this weekend, for sure!

Fardragon

Personally, I think it is very easy, and a cop-out, to invent a puzzle without a solution.

TStael

Fardragon said:

Personally, I think it is very easy, and a cop-out, to invent a puzzle without a solution.

Am i right in thinking you are referring to the main plot murder mystery of Laura Palmer here?

I am myself, I admit, more conventional than Lynch in my story-telling preferences: I do have a positive bias for a story to deliver a certain closure, and I enjoy those emotional satisfactions of seeing injustices punished, the righteous thrive etc.

Lynch has been quite upfront that he never wanted to solve the murder - and plot is indeed not that central to the greatness of series (IMO). But still I just totally love how the series uses a plot as excuse of sorts to examine a weird cast of characters, human response to emotional pressure, human mania, our capacity of evil etc. And the moods and the atmospheres created are in my view just often masterful.

I freely admit that Twin Peaks would have been "easier" in many ways, and in some ways also more satisying if it had had a conventional plot driven script.

However, what you view as "cheap" is actually near nigh impossible: the TV company did force Palmer murder to be solved, creating a rift between the two original crators, and hasty solution that probably did not really satisfy anyone.

It was not possible not to have some kind of apparent solution to the puzzle, and I think I'm probably more comfy that way myself, but it did not necessarily serve the series that well in the end.

Fardragon

I'm referring to the whole thing, and the genre it spawned (Lost etc). Put in enigmatic stuff with the expectation that the viewers will spend hours discussing it and puzzling over it, but the fact is the writers have no more idea what it means than the viewers. It's just meaningless random weirdness.

GreenWarlock

I agree with FarDragon about the direction the genre has taken, but don't think it applies to Twin Peaks. The problem is stories with a conventional structure that invite you to solve a mystery that the writers know no more about than you, yet they mystery is the focus of the piece - that is just lazy writing. In Twin Peaks, and perhaps a few other shows (I have not owned a TV for too long to be sure) the story is just a plot device to introduce a world of characters, and those characters and their relationship with the world around them is the true focus of the show. Without the focus on the traditional narrative arc, the mystery slowly falls into the background and becomes less relevant as the show progresses. It does not need to be solved, does not invite a solution, and the more interesting questions are how the mystery relates to the ongoing narrative, rather than the solution of said mystery itself.

TStael

Fardragon said:

I'm referring to the whole thing, and the genre it spawned (Lost etc). Put in enigmatic stuff with the expectation that the viewers will spend hours discussing it and puzzling over it, but the fact is the writers have no more idea what it means than the viewers. It's just meaningless random weirdness.

Never saw "Lost" so cannot qualify, i.e. I do not know anything to have an opinion. But truly, I do think writing or scriptwriting is hard - it cannot just be a sod-off, really!

Yet Lynch has always been unsettling, I don't think it was a gimmick. (perso)

I also have to admit I rather see X-Files and Ammerican Horror Story myself as inheritors.

X-Files for characters and for almost wild variation of narrative styles, and dark naturalistic mood; American Horror Story for the characters, grittiness and psycologial suspense edging on cynicism.

TStael

GreenWarlock said:

I agree with FarDragon about the direction the genre has taken, but don't think it applies to Twin Peaks. The problem is stories with a conventional structure that invite you to solve a mystery that the writers know no more about than you, yet they mystery is the focus of the piece - that is just lazy writing.

Haha, with Twin Peaks probably not - Lynch loves surreliasm clearly, and it is not an easy sell. Frankly how he got Twin Peaks pitched wtih Frost is beyond me... Glad he did!

But let me repeat: writing is not easy! (I think) And I do think those whom get to do it to either to fame or as gogs in TV-et-Hollywood machine are very lucky, or have money to try. Do a fanfic once, or a generic short story - and I think you'll see how hard writing a story is.

"How shall I style my dialogues?" ;-) If you know - I'd be glad to learn. Let it be admitted: Conan Doyle - cumbersome dialogue, so well loved. I sort of think Twin Peaks is bit the same.

abacus

Love Twin Peaks!

The only bad parts of the show are the bits with James Hurley... with his misplaced angst, silly hair and constipated expression.
it's a terrible performance of a tedious role. Every time he broodingly stares into the distance and mumbles about leaving town I just want to say "See ya Jimmy! Don't bother to write!"

The scene where he sings has to be the most cringey thing I've ever seen on tv.

jjstraka34

Carnivale is another show that was torpedoed after two seasons that was fascinatingly obtuse and weird. Definitely had alot of Twin Peaks' DNA (and one of it's main actors as well).

Fardragon

There is nothing wrong with surrealism, but if you put a melting watch in a desert landscape, then it should have meaning to the creator, even though it is never spelled out to the audience. All to often I feel it is just random faeces that relies on "The Emperor's New Clothes" principle to pretend to be cleaver. A trick program makers picked up from the Art world.

TStael

abacus said:

Love Twin Peaks!

The only bad parts of the show are the bits with James Hurley... with his misplaced angst, silly hair and constipated expression.
it's a terrible performance of a tedious role. Every time he broodingly stares into the distance and mumbles about leaving town I just want to say "See ya Jimmy! Don't bother to write!"

The scene where he sings has to be the most cringey thing I've ever seen on tv.

Uhm... I am not that hostile on James, but still, gotta like yer style abacus! Charmingly cuts the chase, even if I do not quite agree. Look fwd to that singing episode now...

I actually took a liking to James and Donna, because, well: almost everyone else. Half part manipulation by often horrible counter balance and half part true, to me, James and Donna.

I really think James was intended to be that handsome, reliable, maybe a little dim, better than his family background sort of guy - as an archtype, because everyone else was just so criminal and batty!

TStael

Fardragon said:

There is nothing wrong with surrealism, but if you put a melting watch in a desert landscape, then it should have meaning to the creator, even though it is never spelled out to the audience. All to often I feel it is just random faeces that relies on "The Emperor's New Clothes" principle to pretend to be cleaver. A trick program makers picked up from the Art world.

Surrealism is easier to digest, certainly, as a painting.

Symbolism of the melting clock is so abundant: how we can bend our perspectives; relative nature of time; contrast between the absurd and what is supposed to be precise. Let it be said - IMO, Dali did have a painting technique that must have required significant investment, lest he be a prodigy.

I think you see Lynch just as a man milking the naked emperor. To me, Dali in our reference - but in plain sight, and in full compliance of the crowd whom decides what is art.

I think Dali just "milked it" once he got there - and I respect him for his honesty, when I think Picasso did the same, or more, while positioning himself as a sacrosanct master of fine arts.

I find Lynch not a poser, perso - he wanted to study us humans as characters, and as a collective; and the evil and perception of it. He sidestepped the plot as the main vehicle. To me, his style compels still today as something quite original.

You clearly think he could have done better, but I think there is so much conventional story telling already that I am glad Lynch got his chance.

InKal

I recently rewatched Lynch movies Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart and Eraser Head and enjoyed them, especially Blue Velvet and Eraser Head (his best movie in my opionion). I started rewatching Twin Peaks but couldn't watch this, I mean how cheesy and cringy it was. I know that Twin Peaks is basically a soap opera parody but I just can't watch it anymore.

Fardragon

Dali's early work was deep, with many layers of meaning, but as he became older and more cynical he was just taking the piss out of the Art establishment (and laughing all the way to the bank).

As for lynch, I don't believe he is so much as a faker as his followers, but I have never found him accessible. The world of small-town America played straight is alien enough to me. Perhaps if it where set in Liverpool I would have some points of reference.

TStael

Fardragon said:

Dali's early work was deep, with many layers of meaning, but as he became older and more cynical he was just taking the piss out of the Art establishment (and laughing all the way to the bank).

As for lynch, I don't believe he is so much as a faker as his followers, but I have never found him accessible. The world of small-town America played straight is alien enough to me. Perhaps if it where set in Liverpool I would have some points of reference.

"Philistine on the sidewalk" - per Gary Larson, maybe playfully me.

I must admit that it is Dali's honesty as a successful artist - printing money and being a pop-art phenomenon unto himself: I just like and respect.

On the same token, I always imagine Picasso's cubism as a licence to milk it, but less honest in its purported artistic "deepness" and formative vision.

Hey, I hail from a rural setting, but also, surely no community of any magnitude is about fifty-fifty batty or criminal? Size up to Liverpool - hope not!

As to Twin Peaks, what really struck me on review was the cinematography and mood, and characters.

I am for example at awe by the scene where Laura's mother's grief is howled from displaced telephone receiver, signalling how dysfunctional her parents relationship was, and how none of us could actually handle such moment for real!

Hope for more now, brace myself in case it is not that good...

TStael

InKal said:

I recently rewatched Lynch movies Blue Velvet, Wild at Heart and Eraser Head and enjoyed them, especially Blue Velvet and Eraser Head (his best movie in my opionion). I started rewatching Twin Peaks but couldn't watch this, I mean how cheesy and cringy it was. I know that Twin Peaks is basically a soap opera parody but I just can't watch it anymore.

I let you view me as pussy-pants or whatnot, but I truly find Twin Peaks psychologially suspenseful, and aslo surreal enough.

X-Files and American Horror Story to my perception are happily inspired by a lot of the narrative ideas.

And as said before, to me, the cinematography is just there to be enjoyed! Gruyère très corsé maybe - as in saying, cheesy can be quite fine! ;-p

Fardragon

In Liverpool, 100% of the community is batty AND criminal.