Party for BG:EE 1+2, comment please!
raelcari
Member Posts: 133
I'm playing through BG:EE 1+2 with some (3!) friends, even less acquainted to the ways of DnD 2nd ed. than myself. I would like your comments on my idea about the party, keeping in mind that I want us to survive the various encounters of BG2 without tempering with the core difficulty. And, of course, that we're a party of four.
Protagonist: Half-elf fighter/mage, proficiency points inflails warhammers, scimitars and two-weapon style. There is always the option of a gnome fighter/illusionist.
Human inquisitor, prof. in halberds, two-handed swords and two-handed style. Yes, I do have a certain 2-handed sword in mind with this character, although I'm unsure if we'll survive the battle that precedes its acquisition.
Dwarven fighter/cleric, prof. in flails and sword and shield style. Edited as per the recommendation of @gorgonzola.
Halfling Fighter/thief. I guess the +1 thac0 to slings could be useful early on, but it's mostly about the shortie saving-throws-boni. Still pounding on weapon proficiencies for this one, but two weapon style is a given.
How far into the 2nd installment of the series would this take us? Also, what would you replace and why?
Protagonist: Half-elf fighter/mage, proficiency points in
Human inquisitor, prof. in halberds, two-handed swords and two-handed style. Yes, I do have a certain 2-handed sword in mind with this character, although I'm unsure if we'll survive the battle that precedes its acquisition.
Dwarven fighter/cleric, prof. in flails and sword and shield style. Edited as per the recommendation of @gorgonzola.
Halfling Fighter/thief. I guess the +1 thac0 to slings could be useful early on, but it's mostly about the shortie saving-throws-boni. Still pounding on weapon proficiencies for this one, but two weapon style is a given.
How far into the 2nd installment of the series would this take us? Also, what would you replace and why?
Post edited by raelcari on
2
Comments
Dwarven fighter/cleric very good, but the really good hammer is the one that give you 25 STR.
A cleric has spells to bring his STR up to 25, why waste the hammer, the only item in the game that can rise the STR so high, with him? Imo is the perfect flail welder, he can use a SoA hammer as ranged, but with sling is any way strong, the sling has low apr but get the str bonus, a fighter with it solve the problem of the apr with his level and specialization, up to 2.5 Apr that hit hard, lor harder than a bow.
Human inquisitor, perfect. He can also be the bows/Xbows user, ranged rules in bg1 and in bg2 there are arrows and bolts with interesting proprieties.
??? Fighter/thief. good, with shorty bonuses is better, dual if you don't mind to do it even better.
for end game is better to dual at 9, more HP and better thac0, a lev 7 is sub par for end game. But is all bg1 without thief. Why not dual from thief, you have it in bg1, where you have few HP and a trap can kill, and later you can better survive the down time, even if fighter rise in level slower so the down time is longer.
Imo a dual good for all the saga is something for who knows the game, the traps locations, how to save XP to speed the down time and so on. My advice is multi, better shorty.
For my standards is arcane magic light, with only a multi mage, but with only 4 and all that physical power is not a problem, and probably if you have no experience in the magic system, as is implemented in the game, is better your configuration, more physical, but magically efficient with multi mage multi cleric and inquisitor dispells.
Good point about the warhammer. Maybe that goes on the protagonist F/M, while the cleric picks up the flail instead.
Getting a 'shorty' thief (halfling) isn't a bad idea, it gives a saving throw bonus but sacrifices the +1 thac0 bonus an elf would bring to a bow or sword. I'm having a hard time making up my mind on this.
Haven't really played with the speed-boosting scimitar or short sword, but I definately see their potential as off-hand weapons. I guess that goes on my F/T, as my protagonist will definately want the katana on his offhand. Duly noted.
later, when you have the hammer, and this is near the end of SoA, you can use the hammer in place of the katana, use the katana and substitute the +1 apr offhand sword with the hammer, trading 1 attack for the strength or use the hammer with the fighter thief, that can not backstab with it, but anyway is often better to have a specialized weapon for backstabbing, and use it in normal combact, probably is the best option imo.
About the shorty thief is a multi, so the +1 thac0 is a false problem as a multi continue to progress in fighter levels and thac0 up to thac0 0, the dual at lev 7 if I am not wrong stop progressing at thac0 13 and have to wait untill his thief thac0 gets better, but never better than 8. As a multi with fighter he has no need to grind every possible thac0 point, he will hit often anyway once he start to get levels, a bonus in saving throws is much more useful, and shorty have also useful bonuses in thieving points, so you start earlier to get some useful thieving abilities other than the basic locks and traps stuff.
What I would replace personally would be to switch the fighter/mage for a wild mage. Fighter/mages are so easy to play you might as well just run the game on story mode. A wild mage is a lot more interesting, requires some brain to be powerful, and would serve up some wild surges that would make for a couple of good laughs later on. Probably a good choice. Just be careful to not upgrade the Flail of Ages to +5 since it gives it Free Movement and makes it practically useless. I know the THAC0 is tempting, but in terms of powergaming you should always pick a shorty. It can be hard to know untill you've played enough and gotten a feel for it, but there's really no comparison. While the Katana is one of the best weapons mid-SoA it's pretty bad in ToB due to enemies getting better saving throws and having it in off-hand will only give it 1 APR, meaning it'll never affect anything. A fighter/mage should always aim for Crom Faeyr with Belm or Kundane offhand.
Also, considering the fighter/thief, you definitely don't want to make him a dual. A common mistake is to consider thieves just opener of locks and disarmers of traps, in which case you could dual him at 7-9ish, but in fact thieves are pretty amazing at higher levels. Spike Traps and Time Traps are the two best HLAs in the game after Bard Song and are so strong most people consider it cheese to simply use them, and with 200 pickpocked you can steal literally every item in the game... stuff like that... a Fighter/Thief multi is easily five times as strong and five times as fun as a dual.
About the wild mage imo for a first run is enough complicate to get used of the implementation of the spell system, dealing also with the surges, with the only arcane caster, and spells are used also to buff, not only to damage, with the many bad surges on target or on caster is a little too much. Doable, but personally I would try it later, I don't like to reload too much.
For the rest I agree with everything @Tenrecc tells.
If using the hammer as main weapon of the F/M or using it for the F/T are both valid options, they both need good weapons, have plenty of proficiency points as they can not reach GM and when ToB and WK are reached there is plenty of weapons to equip them.
I probably would DW the hammer and the monk only +1APR weapon with the thief, as soon as he gets UAI, and switch to a certain staff only for backstabbing. EE make it possible without going to the inventory screen, in original there would have been more micromanagement.
To replace the katana there are other good weapons.
But is only my personal choice, other choices are just as good, as long as they take in account the whole party power, and not only the single char, Without the M/T to euip giving the hammer to the F/M main hand would be the best possible one.
So in terms of weapon proficiencies, I'll go with DW, warhammers and scimitars on my F/M, and flails + shield on my F/C, and still 2h on the paladin, ofc.
Which weapons would you choose for the F/T (shortie)? I was thinking dual and long swords, but I'm hearing a lot of support for the celestial fury - and there is also this kundane (short sword?) to consider, I guess. How would you spend his points?
Fighter/Mage: Warhammers / Shortswords / Katana (Aishdeena and Whistling blade early on in BG1, Crom Faeyr and Kundane in BG2, Can play around with Celestial Fury as well).
Inquisitor: 2HSwords / Halberds (Tons of good weapons all around with Carsomyr obviously the go-to).
Fighter/Cleric: Flails / Maces / Warhammers (Shields are only really good when built around, Fighter/Clerics has enough defensives and you dont want to waste their massive strength. Should dual-wield like the rest of you).
Fighter/Thief: Long Swords / Scimitars / Quarterstaff (Varscona in BG1, Daystar and Belm in early BG2, Angurvadal and Scarlet Ninja-To for endgame, Qstaffs for Staff of the Magi for great utility, defensives and dispelling).
the druid and cleric limitations on weapon are always prevailing on what the other class allow.
A F/T can use long bow even if a thief can not, your F/C can not use katanas and the weapons that are not allowed to a single class cleric.
For the off hand there are good maces, a +3 club early in SoA, but I would not loose proficiencies on it, and some good maces. or a flail +2 from the same merchant that sells the scarlet, that give 20% damage reduction, for end game you can have up to +5 mace, but as your thac0 will be good and the off hand weapon hits only 1 time x round many think that is better to deal just little less damage and take 20% less damage. Specially true for a F/C that can rise his STR to 25 at will, adding 14 damage to each hit and rising the thac0 of 7. A +5 weapon deals only 3 more damage than a +2 one.
And about Scarlet, it's indeed like @gorgonzola said, monk weapon from special shopkeeper. It's the only +1 APR offhand weapon outside Belm and Kundane, but is better enchantment (+3 over +2) and adds a poison attack. It's the best offhand weapon in the game, with the drawback of only being usable by monks, or people with UAI, so thieves and bards over 3M exp can use it. And should.
And again, as both of you have mentioned, the weapon selection really is sad for Clerics now. I miss having the FoA +5 for them, it was such an obvious choice, and a contender for the best weapon in the game.
Bot there are different opinions about free action, and as long as are opinions are all valid ones.
My opinion is based on the spell description, immunity to things that would limit movement, and in game implementation, is that unequipping FoA+5, casting an haste spell, and then equipping it again is nor a cheat nor an exploit. And this, at the cost of minimal micromanagement, lets have haste and use FoA+5, and the free action benefits on top.
As I told we are talking of opinions, who chose to not do so and don't upgrade the weapon have a different opinion, that is as good as mine.
But at least I have some reasons for mine, free action is not supposed to limit movement, but to avoid limitations to movement, as per spell description, the game mechanics work in a way that is not retroactive, and I see no logic in an upgrade that make a weapon less powerful or useful, as the impossibility to haste is prevalent on the added damage.
To avoid to upgrade the weapon instead of do it and use that little micromanagement, is only one of the possible player's choices, not something set in stone.
- The paladin can only get 2 pips in any given weapon style anyway, so he can afford to 'waste' two points in halberds.
- There aren't any good 2h-swords available early in BG1, but a few mouthwatering halberds - I'm having the +2 one in mind that unfortunately sets APR to 1.
- There is a halberd available in BG2 that does a whopping +5 or +6 (?) to dragons, which could in turn make Carsomyr a little more... available.
- There is an absolutely fantastic halberd available in late SoA which I've never included in my arsenal before.
That being said, I'd be happy to hear about other options. That's why I'm here!
In the 2nd game, I would get the bastard sword in that awesome high-level dungeon with cool stuff in it, and then switch to carsomyr.
I can name these locations if you want to, just trying to avoid spoilers.
In Baldur's gate 2, you can get a goodbastard sword from the statues at the first level, IIRC. And there is also a paladin bastard sword in the maze on 3rd level which you can use to fight undead, which they are made for. Very handy indeed. Then of course you got carsomyr for the rest of the game, and a non-magical 2h sword to counter PfMW and kill magical golems. Hope that made my points somewhat more clear. @raelcari
Regarding WK
You can save Durlag's tower for the end of your journey. Level up your party, teach your friends how to fight, think and to use different potions, scrolls and strategies. Challenge yourself, that is what makes this game so enjoyable.
Pali who uses two hand swords and halberds and
Dwarven Defender who uses axes and dual wields
Elven Ranger as there are some nice specific ranger gear in the game Long Swords and Bows. Stalkers are a Great sub class
Dwarven fighter thief as they get the highest bonuses for finding traps and the con helps keep them alive and they get to use the nimble fingered gloves in SoD. I equip this guy with Drittz's gear and the helm of Dumantheon. A Dwarf with a con of 20 is a great thing
Elven Fighter mage that dual wields short swords or Katana's...there is a katana in B2 that gives you extra spell slots BTW. But the lack of Katana's in BG1 may be prohibitive to you.
Dwarven Fighter Cleric that dual wilds Hammers and flails and later can use the Dwarven throwing hammer, which is much better than any sling.
Any of them can be the protagonist char name
Getting 1/2 of the xp for each class means for large parts of the game to have 1 or sometimes 2 levels less than a pure class.
Blade has his power. But is completely different from F/M, they complement each other more than be alternatives. They have in common fighting capability and arcane casting, but every other ting is different. The multi levels up slower, but can reach lev 7-9 casting (and use simulacrum and IH to get 4x APR) and is a proper fighter with specialization, fighter thac0 and APR increase at 7 and 13, the bard kit uses rogue thac0, reach faster high levels, but uses the spins and the other bard's features to be a capable damage dealer, is also an "item eater", if you want him useful you have to give him the best.