sorcerer changes and spell pics

Pharaun159

Whats a good sorcerer build for sod? I really love haevron's guides, but i haven't found one yet for sod. It was very clear to me that the traditional way i used to build my character didnt work so well in sod. I usually burn through soa and tob with a two party setup. Sorcerer and ranger (rp reasons). But in sod i was getting my ass kicked. So tactically speaking.... What would be good spell choices and tactics for a sorcerer main, full party team (sorcerer, fighter/mage, ranger stalker, cleric/mage, barbarian, fighter/thief or :swashbuckler: or berserker/theif)?

alceryes

Check out the last few posts here for a good spell list and discussion - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/22516/sorcerer-spells-what-to-pick/p2

Also, you might want to consider the dragon discipline kit. You lose one spell cast per day but are more 'tanky'. I'm not the best at higher level spellcaster tactics. Someone else will have to pitch in. What difficulty are you playing on? From what I've heard it makes a bigger difference in SoD.

Pharaun159

I generally do use dragon disciple, and im playing core rules difficulty. lol, ive literally been on pintrist for 3 days makeing portraits, trying to build a party i like roleplay wise, but actually works.

alceryes

There's several good portrait packs out there.
This one - http://www.moddb.com/games/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/addons/super-ultimate-portrait-pack has TONS of good pics. Executables from the web can be dangerous. Be sure to scan it before running.
As far as I could tell the .exe just tries to use a sql file to create a custom portraits folder. It didn't work for me so I just deleted the sql file it created and moved all the portraits to the actual 'portraits' folder in My Documents. Also note that you can delete all the small portraits if you are using the EE's as they will only use the medium or large pics.

Edit - Here's the link for the same pack without the .exe nonsense - http://www.moddb.com/games/baldurs-gate-enhanced-edition/addons/super-ultimate-portrait-pack-zip

DullSkullTheSecond

alceryes said:

Check out the last few posts here for a good spell list and discussion - https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/22516/sorcerer-spells-what-to-pick/p2

Also, you might want to consider the dragon discipline kit. You lose one spell cast per day but are more 'tanky'. I'm not the best at higher level spellcaster tactics. Someone else will have to pitch in. What difficulty are you playing on? From what I've heard it makes a bigger difference in SoD.

Not to turn this into some power gaming discussion but the dragon disciple is not more "tanky". Could even be argued that they are less tanky because of the fewer spells per day. Just saying this before someone goes with dragon disciple with the intent of tanking They could do it of course but they are truly not made for it.

Ayiekie

They're more tanky in the sense that they have half again as many hitpoints for quite awhile, which makes them able to handle the effects of a mistake better than normal sorcerers (the better AC and fire resistance also help). Yeah, the one less spell a day is a weakness at the high level endgame, but it's a trade-off for a smoother ride early.

DullSkullTheSecond

Ayiekie said:

They're more tanky in the sense that they have half again as many hitpoints for quite awhile, which makes them able to handle the effects of a mistake better than normal sorcerers (the better AC and fire resistance also help). Yeah, the one less spell a day is a weakness at the high level endgame, but it's a trade-off for a smoother ride early.

Powergaming discussion it is! If your mage is taking direct hits they are dead unless you run away, an extra haste spell gives you more tankiness than some extra AC and HP. Fire resistance? There are spells, potions, scrolls and items that does that and can be used in the very niche situations that require it. One extra spell per level is a huge advantage both because it means less rests that put the group in danger and because it wins longer fights. And ofc feels nicer because you can throw out more of your favorite spells which is a very consistent flat advantage both in fun factor and power

Maybe, maybe... One could argue that they are somewhat tanky in bg1ee but other than that they don't really bring anything to the table. All in my own humble opinion ofc.

Calemyr

Personally, I find the DD's bonuses more than make up for the drawback. These are innate bonuses, remember. They are permanent, non-dispellable, do not require casting, do not require equipment slots, and they stack with similar bonuses. The natural armor bonus stacks with the armor AC of powerful robes (Vecna or Archmage) or AC gauntlets. The fire resistance stacks with rings of fire resistance. 1d6 HP gain is pretty dope on its own (especially for the lynchpin Scion), but the CON is a wonderful feature as well: Starting with 18 Con may seem like a waste, but the +1 CON bonus at level 5 stacked with the +1 CON bonus from the tome in BG1's pirate cove gets you 20 con and innate regeneration. Not fast regeneration, perhaps, but enough that you don't require divine caster support

Add it all up and you've got a mage with an AC that can rival a tank*, fire resist that actually heals them if they step in lava, innate regeneration, and a non-magical AoE fire attack... oh, and all the fun mage goodies to boot.

AC Calculation:
10 Base AC
-7 Bracers of AC 3
-5 Dragon Disciple bonus (Level 20)
-4 18 Dexterity
-2 Ring of Protection +2
-1 Ring of Earth Control (stacks with Ring of protection)
-1 Cloak of the Sewers (stacks with Ring of Protection)
-------------------------------------------------
-10 AC total, most of which can be obtained very early in BG2 (only 2 points of the DD bonus are missing at level 10). And this is before stoneskin becomes a factor. And with the ample bonuses of spellcasting on top of it. Add in Edwin's Robe of Red Flames (from SoD, exportable into BG2) and you not only can cap out fire resistance (to the point of healing) but also increases the damage output from your already substantial fire magic by 10%.

Edit: Although, I must admit, only 25% of this -20 to AC comes from being a DD. Everything else is available to any mage (or anyone, for that matter). But that still caps at -15. The -5 from DD just takes the cap from "decent" to "excellent".

And while a sorcerer isn't a great mage on its own, it makes an excellent companion to a generalist mage like Imoen or a wild mage like Neera (who can cast any spell in their spellbook as a level 1 spell using Reckless Dweomer, even spells they don't have slots for yet). That way you have one "Batman" mage that can adjust to any situation you face, and one "blaster" mage that just focuses on being an unkillable bringer of fiery doom.

Really, I have a hard time understanding how the trade isn't worth it.

Mush_Mush

Calemyr said:

Really, I have a hard time understanding how the trade isn't worth it.

It depends how you play your sorcerer, if your sorcerer is not on the front line and you have no intention of letting them take any punishment the DD bonuses are moot whereas the loss of extra cast of every level is a tangible loss.

I like the DD but it could be better, as it stands its somewhat underwhelming. Having said that I have a DD and she is awesome but partly because I like to be brazen and stand on the front line like a badass.

Calemyr

Mush_Mush said:

It depends how you play your sorcerer, if your sorcerer is not on the front line and you have no intention of letting them take any punishment the DD bonuses are moot whereas the loss of extra cast of every level is a tangible loss.

Maybe there's just something wrong with me, but I don't see how you have any control over that. There's no real "Agro" mechanic. Tanks don't just own everyone's attention for walking in with a shiny shield. When you're outnumbered and surrounded by archers and mages, you're not going get out unscathed just because you're standing in the back.

Besides which, how often in the late game are you actually hurting for spells in a single encounter (especially if you've got a second mage)? What are you actually losing, when you're gaining so much?

Mush_Mush

You may not be able to avoid ALL damage but a mage in the back is going to sustain a significant amount less than one on the front line.

For example I am currently playing a generalist mage in the back and he's barely taken a scratch with a few exeptions in comparison to when I played through with my DD. He's only died once but even then a DD in the same situation would have died aswell.

In regards for hurting for spells having extra casts available is always a good thing extra spiders to run around the webbed enemies extra MMs, that extra PfMW/death spell/mislead (level 6 casts always run out quickly for me)

Also I like to rest as little as possible when I play so the more spells I have the better.

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Calemyr

As I said, only 2 AC aren't available at level 10. Everything else is pretty easily attainable in BG2 and -8 AC is still quite decent. Even at epic levels, an additional -5 AC above and beyond what you could otherwise get and immunity to the most common element is still pretty darn useful. Though, I must admit, missing a level 9 spell can certainly hurt in a pinch. But, for all the nights my cleric has to rest while my sorc has power to burn, the trade isn't as painful as all that.

And I didn't mean to suggest that DD was brokenly powerful, just that it's not bad. The trade-off is more than fair if you want a more durable single-class mage, and a sorcerer is not a problem if you're going to already have a wizard in the party - one focused, one versatile.

I still have a hard time understanding how the trade isn't worth it... assuming what you're working for is a low maintenance, high power caster. If you're looking for high maintenance and higher power, then it's not an ideal trade for you in that case. But I still feel people dismiss the kit without considering what its advantages actually mean.

Mush_Mush

Additional breath attacks would be nice. Or, alternatively, some other dragon-like abilities such as dragon fear or temporary claws.

Calemyr

Oh, yes. There is much more that you could do with the kit. And you really, really should get an additional breath attack every few levels, because a single-use 8d8 AoE isn't even worth mentioning for the most part, just slightly better than a level 10 fireball. But just because it didn't fully exploit the potential of the concept does not mean it isn't a worthy option.

Personally, I really like the "set it and forget it" style of the DD. All my major defenses are either permanent or long term, allowing me to hone my spell list and my spellcasting in a pure "screw it, everything burns" mindset. It basically has all the power of a proper mage, without the micromanagement and eschewing most of the downsides, at the cost of a spell slot per level, bringing it down to generic wizard capacity. It makes being a mage fun rather than tedious - for me, anyway. Imoen does much the same, as she can wear elven chain armor without losing casting and use short bows like Gesen's Bow, allowing her to reserve her spells for major encounters.

Calemyr

Actually, I may be a bit more biased than most because of a mod I favor, which makes epic and quest spells into one-use abilities rather than actual spells, and you can take the HLA multiple times to cast it multiple times per day. Much like the paladin's ability to summon planetars, and frankly it should have been like that from the start. Still, this means that late game I'm not hurting for spells, which makes the downside of the DD much less of a problem for me.

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DullSkullTheSecond

The problem with a DDs "tankiness" is that there are immunity spells in the game. Being able to take another hit is crap compared to several extra rounds of outright immunity to a certain type of damage. The extra spell is also so much more flexible because you can choose what to use it on, defence, control or damage. It's all up to you! If you are not being touched then you can toss out an extra high level spell. The DD get some flat insignificant defence(the breath attack is not very strong since it does fire damage and can damage your own group) that does not change anything in any scenario while a pure sorcerer excels at everything.
The problem lies in how extremely powerful spells are in this game, losing one spell per day is huge because of how powerful a single spell can be. Some extra constitution(Pretty worthless considering how you will be swimming in stats and going over 16 gives you nothing except regen at 20), some fire resistance(another thing you will be swimming in) and a breath attack that does fire damage(Useful against vampires I'll give it that, but you trade it for another sunfire or horrid and I don't think it can be returned with wish) is far from worth the trade.
If a bonus to fire damage(a bonus to rolls or a flat percentage) could be implemented then it could start to become interesting. And with the red robes from SoD there could be some very interesting interaction with fire for the DD.

Arunsun

All you want from a spellcaster in SoD is to have AoEs. Fireball, Sunfire, Icestorm, Skulltrap, they all work very well and are quite necessary. You might also want Lower Resistance, but if you have a cleric, magic resistance will do just fine if cast on enemies(As it sets MR to twice your cleric level, whether it's originally above or below that level)