What level to dual a shadowdancer to mage?

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Kurona

I'd do it at 13 for the x4 backstab and a tad more points for thief skills. With Hide in Plain Sight and Polymorph Self you won't even need Mislead to wreck stuff.

Mush_Mush

I duelled my SD at 10 too, I prefer to get levels back quickly rather than slogging through without them for half the game. Ideally for stats 13 is good ideally for practicality and smoother level progression I'd go with 10.

If you're soloing you may aswell go to 13 though

Tenrecc

A bit off topic, but why would you roll that class when SotM is in the game? SCS?

Gallowglass

@thespace - I'm assuming you'll also take along some other Thief or part-Thief to handle locks and traps.

I've got a Shadowdancer waiting at the end of BG1ee (she'll go into SoD after I've finished my current BG2ee run with a different protagonist), and in my case I'm planning to dual to Mage at level 12 (because it suits my game-plan to build up her Detect Illusion skill as well as the Stealth skills).

If you don't need your Shadowdancer to build any Thief skills to a reliable level apart from Stealth, then I'd agree that level 10 (i.e. as soon as you've got the second Shadowstep) is a sensible time to dual.

As a potential alternative strategy, it's (just) possible to get both Stealth skills plus Open Locks plus Find Traps all to a sufficient level to be reliable (with the aid of Thief-boosting rings etc.) by level 13, and then to dual and get your Thief skills back (i.e. Mage level 14) at around the time you finish the Underdark. That'd mean that you could then retire Imoen as soon as you get back to Athkatla, and continue through the rest of SoA and ToB with your SD->Mage as sole Thief. This wouldn't be my preference, but it'd be viable if you wanted (for example) an extra melee character instead of a second Mage/Thief.

Arunsun

Tenrecc said:

A bit off topic, but why would you roll that class when SotM is in the game? SCS?

Most players here play with SCS, or at least item tweaks which, unless I'm mistaken, removes the invisibility component.

Gallowglass

Arunsun said:

Most players here play with SCS

You think? Certainly some of the very active participants do so, but I wouldn't be so sure about "most".

sparrow13x

It depends on if you're soloing really!

If you're soloing you can dual at 13 and get that x4 multiplier and 60 more thieving points so you could get HiS/MS/Find Traps/Open Locks all up to respectable levels. Just keep in mind that reaching Mage level 14 requires a lot more experience so you'll essentially be a single-class mage for a good long while. In this case it might be a good idea to hold off on handing in quests so that you can get a jump-start once you dual-class.

If you're not soloing your best bet is level 10. You get a second Shadowstep and enough thieving points to get 3 of the 4 essential skills up to 100, and can handle locks with Knock once you become a mage. Your backstab multiplier will only be x3, but the main attraction here is the ability to break enemy spellcasting at will.

Either way I recommend level 10 as a general rule, the extra backstab multiplier is only worth it if you're dual classing to fighter but that's a massive project on its own.

Mush_Mush

Tenrecc said:

A bit off topic, but why would you roll that class when SotM is in the game? SCS?

There are quite a few reasons, the thief kit gives you access to other weapons; bows short swords etc, backstab ability, extra HP, RP flavour, shadowstep, also SotM isn't exactly a piece of cake to grab its not like you can stroll into the adventurers mart n buy it.

Or did you mean roll SD over other thief kits? In which case the list is somewhat shorter but you can still use other weapons and theres the minor +1 saves and stealth bonuses not to mention if you're playing through BG1 first there is obviously no SotM.

sparrow13x

SotM requires more micromanagement with weapon swaps because you can't backstab with it, plus you can only use it at 3mil XP which is basically the end of SoA if running with a party.

Shadowdancer feels different from every other kit in the game. I don't feel like it's particularly deadly due to the lower backstab multiplier and thief thac0, but it has a unique theme to it and opens up new strategies that normally require a dual or multi T/M to pull off.

It's real strength is making you feel like that Shadow Thief that ganks you if you try to kill Renal, but without being overpowering. I've been wanting to make a SD/Fighter for a while but I prefer to solo, so in that case you're just a basic fighter that can disappear. You can absolutely solo the game that way, but it's not very versatile. SD/Mage on the other hand is a lot of fun as long as you aren't doing it to exclusively backstab because then you'll be disappointed.

gorgonzola

Arunsun said:

Tenrecc said:

A bit off topic, but why would you roll that class when SotM is in the game? SCS?

Most players here play with SCS, or at least item tweaks which, unless I'm mistaken, removes the invisibility component.

Gallowglass said:

You think? Certainly some of the very active participants do so, but I wouldn't be so sure about "most".

I don't know how many people plays with ScS or other mods.
But, unless the OP make clear that is doing so, my approach is to assume that he plays vanilla.

sparrow13x said:

SotM requires more micromanagement with weapon swaps because you can't backstab with it, plus you can only use it at 3mil XP which is basically the end of SoA if running with a party.

Shadowdancer feels different from every other kit in the game. I don't feel like it's particularly deadly due to the lower backstab multiplier and thief thac0, but it has a unique theme to it and opens up new strategies that normally require a dual or multi T/M to pull off.

As the intention of the OP is to create a T/M dual what I quote is true but less true in this particular topic.
A Shadow Dancer->M can use the SoTM from the moment he start the dual, don't need UAI.
And a T->M can use some of the strategies that a single class ShDa can use and a unkitted thief can not.

About the more micromanagement with weapon swaps can you explain me how it works?
I was never able to go invisible with the SoTM and than swap weapon to backstab, even if I pause and swap weapon from inventory screen at that very moment the thief loose invisibility and the attack is not a backstab. I have to go invisible with the staff, go away from enemy's sight, swap, hide successfully and then approach again the enemy and backstab. A Shadow dancer can hide from invisibility even if in sight of the enemy, so is simpler, but a successful hide is anyway needed, is not only a weapon swap thing, unless I have lost something.

sparrow13x

A SD/M would be able to use it yes, but there's not much reason to use it for its invisibility unless your HiS is on cool down and you need to escape or break vision on an enemy spell. The main reason any SD would want to use it is for the dispel feature especially as a single class SD.

It's a good utility weapon for the SD but it shines more in the hands of other thieves that can't disappear as easily. In their case they can use it to run away and hide so they can open with another backstab with a different weapon.