or rolling for 2 hours to get all 18 stats, I get really turned off.
Rolling to get all 18s? LOL, you press CTRL - 8 to do that. People roll for 2 hours to get all 15 - 16 stats, some enjoy doing it to make natural powerful characters.
Never understood ppl who wasted THAT much time on rerolling, as one can just copy endless tomes into the game and that way boost stats.
You know the game has a built in cheat code via enabling the console in the INI and pressing CTRL - 8 to get all 18 stats? Also shadowkeeper is simple to use and can give you all 25s if you want, nobody rolls to get all 18 stats, thats just daft and it would never happen.
The difference between using Shadowkeeper and legitimately roll stats is that the second option is NOT cheating. Some people hate to cheat and rolling for 10 days straight is still not cheating.
Let's be realistic here for a second. Monks have always been overpowered and not properly implemented in most D&D based games. Seriously....a tiny little man can 1-shot a fracking gigantic dragon? Say what? Oh please Mr. monk, by all means quivering palm my ankle so i can die instantaneously. Sarcasm brought to you by grumpy bears anonymous.
That's certainly impressive to kill Firekraag with one hit. I'm sure it felt awesome the moment it happened, but it's similar to killing him with a fully loaded wand of cloudkill. Don't even need much spells, mostly protective stuff and you can kill it just by combining 10 cloudkills or so and letting him stay in there.
New strategy for monk PCs with a party (or just a cleric and a mage). Bless, Chant, Luck on the monk. Greater Malison on the typical wyvern/dragon/illithid/beholder. Feels kind of cheap even thinking about that, this kind of power should be reserved for extreme villains, people like Irenicus and the likes. Makes them more hateable and showcases their power better.
I don't know why, but rolling for stats for a good 10 minutes has always been fun for me. Don't know why. I'm never looking for the max or anything, just above average at the most. Some playthroughs I'll limit myself to 3 rolls for fun, but eh. Rolling and counting.. it's addicting.
And the only time i ever "one" shot firkraag is with my sorc, (not really one shotting) .. But it's with the spell trigger lower resistance, then a chain contingency of three horrid wiltings. :P
It's not really a question of fair or unfair: it's a single-player game and the only person you can cheat is yourself, so if you're okay with what you're doing, it's fine.
One thing that it is not is impressive. In a game with infinite reloads, anyone can beat anything with enough save-or-die attempts. Walk up to Firkraag, cast chromatic orb. If you don't kill him, reload and try again. If you want to minimize the number of reloads, add a few greater malisions and lower resistances to the package. Eventually, you will kill Firkraag. But there is a console cheat (I forget what, exactly) that lets you just click on the thing you want to kill and it will die anyway, so why bother going through the motions?
My general rule for keeping the game challenging and meaningful is to impose a one reload rule for all optional battles: if Firkraag wipes me out, I can't fight him a second time; I have to take the non-combat option. That way, I can open up with a greater malision + 2x chromatic orb spell in a minor sequencer and hope to get lucky, but I'd better have a plan B for when that probably fails to avoid becoming crispy adventurer bits.
But there is a console cheat (I forget what, exactly) that lets you just click on the thing you want to kill and it will die anyway, so why bother going through the motions?
The cheat you are referring to is ctrl Y, but if you use it you will not get any experience for the kill. Aside from it not being any fun to kill enemies with cheats it will also not benefit you in any way since you won't get any credit for having killed them.
But there is a console cheat (I forget what, exactly) that lets you just click on the thing you want to kill and it will die anyway, so why bother going through the motions?
The cheat you are referring to is ctrl Y, but if you use it you will not get any experience for the kill. Aside from it not being any fun to kill enemies with cheats it will also not benefit you in any way since you won't get any credit for having killed them.
It also doesn't work on some enemies like Demogorgon. I tried to ctrl-y him once and it didn't work. So I used ctrl-q to add him to the party to check out his stats. He was alive and kicking with -100 HP.
Quite honestly, I'm not impressed by things like this. When I read all of the post about players wanting to unbalance the game by having no level cap, or rolling for 2 hours to get all 18 stats, I get really turned off.
Maybe I'm old fashion but I play the game it was intended to be played.
Abdel, internal save of Bioware BG1( Mission Pack Save ).
Stats : Str - 18/90, Dex - 19, Con - 19, Int - 7, Wis - 6, Cha - 20
2 tomes used for Dec,Con, remaining for Str, Int, Wisx3, Cha. Dump stats are dump, rest are sky high.
I just had to say it :P
Plus there is the thief you can start out as in BG1 (premade character) who has like 90, 60, 70, 70% for the thieving stats. Now granted his strength/intelligence/ wisdom/ charisma stats aren't great themselves, but he still has 19 dexterity which makes him a usable ranged character. Considering he is only level 1, he's got some kick butt thieving skills.
To answer the OP's question: Yep, I can. Do I want to? Not really. There's no fun in that.
Personally, I am against the whole rolling your stats thing as it defeats the purpose of making the character you want to play. Sure, rolling your stats is more "hardcore PnP" but not balanced, as you can better/worse rolls than other people but why not roll your race and class while you are at it? After all, the point of rolling stats is to get you into the game quickly in PnP.
If I want to play a really strong and dumb as rocks character, I should be able to. But the game should have the dialogue options to support it like in Fallout or Planescape: Torment. "Lololol look at my 19 STR, 18 DEX, 19 CON, 1 INT, 3 WIS, 3 CHA party leader" is disgusting to me. I would rather cheat and have all my stats set to 18. Or physical stats maxed and the other ones over 8-10 at least, if I play a melee type.
Point-buy as in 3.5/NwN2/Planescape Torment is the best way to go. You can min-max, but you cannot go under 8 in a stat for instance for Human. That way you play the character you want to play without being overpowered since you cannot max all the things you want with rerolling.
Still, when I make a character in BG, I have a golden rule of maxing 2-3 of my primary stats and keeping everything else at 8-10, depending on the character concept. For example, my Cavalier had 18/something STR (less than Minsc), 10 Dex, 18 Con, 10-11 Int, 13 Wis and 18 Charisma. Balanced.
Also, Sarevok has 18/00 Str, 17 Dex, 18 Con, 17 Int, 10 Wis, 15 Cha. I want to believe that the person that can defeat him twice is exceptional also. Let's not forget that your heritage is special. That is excuse enough to have above average stats.
Why is everyone going on like the OP did something under-handed or cheap? How is this in any way breaking or bending the rules? The only way I would consider this cheap is if the OP just reloaded until Firkraag failed his save, which we have no reason to think is what happened here. He just happened to get really lucky, and figured it was interesting enough to share. And then for no apparent reason you get people coming out of the woodwork with their arbitrary definitions of what's fair and what's cheating, who then condescend to everyone who doesn't follow their made-up rules.
Maybe I'm old fashion but I play the game it was intended to be played.
You know any devs personally? If you don't, PLEASE don't take the high and mighty "as it was meant to be played" card.
I personally think the BG games are meant to be played as a mighty wizard who's capable of tapping into his god-hood to disintegrate large and mighty powerful beasts. He's extremely handsome and fleet of foot, because god-hood.
Something doesn't have to be challenging to be fun. I have a lot of fun on silly playthroughs where I abuse game mechanics to do things like Kill Bill Punch a dragon in the heart. I also have a lot of fun with self-imposed challenges like going through the entire game with a solo blade, without dying or reloading a single time.
The inception of "achievements" that are worth points or gamer cred or whatever pisses me off because it's ruined the entire concept of the self-imposed challenge. I'm okay when it's stuff like simple accomplishments (Skyrim did achievements right) but I *loathe* things that require me to do next to impossible stuff, like getting a double kill from beyond the grave in Halo: Reach. Kind of a random tangent here.
TL;DR It's a D&D game and therefore needs to reflect D&D, which is to say you should have the opportunity to be as weak or as powerful as you desire. Imagination in the limit.
Well done. As to game balance - it is not an imbalance that archmages are more powerful than those who swing swords. Game balance does not equal = pVp balance at all levels.
Let's be realistic here for a second. Monks have always been overpowered and not properly implemented in most D&D based games. Seriously....a tiny little man can 1-shot a fracking gigantic dragon? Say what? Oh please Mr. monk, by all means quivering palm my ankle so i can die instantaneously. Sarcasm brought to you by grumpy bears anonymous.
I don't see how it's any different from a mage "tapping into the weave" and using "arcane energy" to instantly kill a dragon by way of disintegrate, finger of death or, well, chromatic orb. It's not like the monk utilizes overwhelming physical strength in the quivering palm attack, so his size doesn't really matter. And compared to certain other possible class combinations, monks aren't all that overpowered at any point of the game.
Having said that, I was never a big fan of save-or-die mechanics. Often they won't work when you really need them, i.e. to kill a really challenging opponent rather than trash - but when they do work against a foe like Firkraag, they tend to make the battle rather bland and anticlimactic.
I find long drawn-out battles with big bosses going from 'weapon unusable' to 'barely injured' to 'injured' to 'injured' in round after round of hard fighting much more satisfying.
I had an instant-death experience the first time I battled Irenicus in Hell. I tried in vain a lot of times, when suddenly, on the n-th attempt, Irenicus spawns inside the Globe of Blades of my summoned Deva and I don't know exactly what happened, the dialogue screen disappeared to fast, but Irenicus died because of standing inside that Globe of Blades before his defenses get put up and I'm smack bang in the middle of the ending cutscene without the fight even having started - glad it is over, but it leaves an empty feeling of a cheap victory.
The difference between using Shadowkeeper and legitimately roll stats is that the second option is NOT cheating. Some people hate to cheat and rolling for 10 days straight is still not cheating.
Old debate, but I don't agree at all. If you set your mind on certain stats and roll until you get them, that is exactly the same amount of cheating as just editing in those stats or using ctrl+8 and setting them that way. Personally I also don't feel that cheating is a proper term for single player games, it's more like modifying.
The difference between using Shadowkeeper and legitimately roll stats is that the second option is NOT cheating. Some people hate to cheat and rolling for 10 days straight is still not cheating.
Old debate, but I don't agree at all. If you set your mind on certain stats and roll until you get them, that is exactly the same amount of cheating as just editing in those stats or using ctrl+8 and setting them that way. Personally I also don't feel that cheating is a proper term for single player games, it's more like modifying.
Pray tell me, how can the process of rolling stats be called cheating if that's one of the game's intended features? It is there, it is implemented by the devs, it is for the players to use and it doesn't require using third-party software to modify your stuff. And if you call it cheating, then by the same logic save-loading to win a fight is also cheating, because one might as well use the same console commands to wipe out all the enemies and save time. Because, you know, why care? The result is the same anyway.
It might be *imbalanced* to be able to get any stats you want by repeatedly re-rolling them, but that's for the players to choose. I enjoy my games when I min-max my way through them. At the same time I would never use some cheesy program to modify my files, that just won't be fair to myself. So, what you describe is far from the same.
The difference between using Shadowkeeper and legitimately roll stats is that the second option is NOT cheating. Some people hate to cheat and rolling for 10 days straight is still not cheating.
Old debate, but I don't agree at all. If you set your mind on certain stats and roll until you get them, that is exactly the same amount of cheating as just editing in those stats or using ctrl+8 and setting them that way. Personally I also don't feel that cheating is a proper term for single player games, it's more like modifying.
Pray tell me, how can the process of rolling stats be called cheating if that's one of the game's intended features? It is there, it is implemented by the devs, it is for the players to use and it doesn't require using third-party software to modify your stuff. And if you call it cheating, then by the same logic save-loading to win a fight is also cheating, because one might as well use the same console commands to wipe out all the enemies and save time. Because, you know, why care? The result is the same anyway.
It might be *imbalanced* to be able to get any stats you want by repeatedly re-rolling them, but that's for the players to choose. I enjoy my games when I min-max my way through them. At the same time I would never use some cheesy program to modify my files, that just won't be fair to myself. So, what you describe is far from the same.
A bit of a misunderstanding, I'm not actually calling it cheating as I don't consider either method to be a cheat; but rather meant that if one thing is considered cheating, so should the other. To be more precise, I don't see the term cheating as relevant in a non-competitive single player game as there's no one else to cheat.
In your example about using ctrl+Y vs manually fighting enemies, I don't consider them the same because defeating the enemies is a strategic part of a the game. It's dependant on several factors such as your sense of party building and tactics, understanding of D&D rules, the path through the game your characters have taken up to that point, etc. Having said that, I don't consider ctrl+Y a cheat either. It's a feature that you can (and should) use if that's how you enjoy playing. Not playing the way you like to play because of what someone else thinks would be to cheat yourself.
This is imo in contrast to, say, using ctrl+8 instead of rolling for hours, or using ctrl+j instead of waiting while your party try to walk single file up a narrow staircase and into a doorway as it has nothing to do with playing the game; it's just a matter of spending time. To me, rolling until you get a stat total of 100 or just using ctrl+8 or an editor to get a stat total of 100 is exactly the same thing. Of course, some people enjoy the tension/excitement/general process of rolling for a long time, and those people would be cheating themselves if they didn't do it that way. The same goes for you with your min/maxing.
Though, I don't see how you find rolling until you get a certain stat total to be fair to yourself, but editing them in won't be. Is it that you somehow feel that you "pay" for the good stats by spending a certain amount of time in front of the screen hitting reroll? It's not like you utilize any particular skillset to get the stats you want. But as said, if that's how you feel, then that's the way you should play.
And yes, by that same reasoning, if you save and reload until you manage to oneshot Firkraag with a quivering palm, then that is pretty much the same thing, as it pertains to cheating, as just using ctrl+Y on him.
Comments
The difference between using Shadowkeeper and legitimately roll stats is that the second option is NOT cheating. Some people hate to cheat and rolling for 10 days straight is still not cheating.
Sarcasm brought to you by grumpy bears anonymous.
New strategy for monk PCs with a party (or just a cleric and a mage). Bless, Chant, Luck on the monk. Greater Malison on the typical wyvern/dragon/illithid/beholder. Feels kind of cheap even thinking about that, this kind of power should be reserved for extreme villains, people like Irenicus and the likes. Makes them more hateable and showcases their power better.
And the only time i ever "one" shot firkraag is with my sorc, (not really one shotting) .. But it's with the spell trigger lower resistance, then a chain contingency of three horrid wiltings. :P
One thing that it is not is impressive. In a game with infinite reloads, anyone can beat anything with enough save-or-die attempts. Walk up to Firkraag, cast chromatic orb. If you don't kill him, reload and try again. If you want to minimize the number of reloads, add a few greater malisions and lower resistances to the package. Eventually, you will kill Firkraag. But there is a console cheat (I forget what, exactly) that lets you just click on the thing you want to kill and it will die anyway, so why bother going through the motions?
My general rule for keeping the game challenging and meaningful is to impose a one reload rule for all optional battles: if Firkraag wipes me out, I can't fight him a second time; I have to take the non-combat option. That way, I can open up with a greater malision + 2x chromatic orb spell in a minor sequencer and hope to get lucky, but I'd better have a plan B for when that probably fails to avoid becoming crispy adventurer bits.
Personally, I am against the whole rolling your stats thing as it defeats the purpose of making the character you want to play.
Sure, rolling your stats is more "hardcore PnP" but not balanced, as you can better/worse rolls than other people but why not roll your race and class while you are at it? After all, the point of rolling stats is to get you into the game quickly in PnP.
If I want to play a really strong and dumb as rocks character, I should be able to. But the game should have the dialogue options to support it like in Fallout or Planescape: Torment.
"Lololol look at my 19 STR, 18 DEX, 19 CON, 1 INT, 3 WIS, 3 CHA party leader" is disgusting to me. I would rather cheat and have all my stats set to 18. Or physical stats maxed and the other ones over 8-10 at least, if I play a melee type.
Point-buy as in 3.5/NwN2/Planescape Torment is the best way to go. You can min-max, but you cannot go under 8 in a stat for instance for Human. That way you play the character you want to play without being overpowered since you cannot max all the things you want with rerolling.
Still, when I make a character in BG, I have a golden rule of maxing 2-3 of my primary stats and keeping everything else at 8-10, depending on the character concept.
For example, my Cavalier had 18/something STR (less than Minsc), 10 Dex, 18 Con, 10-11 Int, 13 Wis and 18 Charisma. Balanced.
Also, Sarevok has 18/00 Str, 17 Dex, 18 Con, 17 Int, 10 Wis, 15 Cha. I want to believe that the person that can defeat him twice is exceptional also. Let's not forget that your heritage is special. That is excuse enough to have above average stats.
I personally think the BG games are meant to be played as a mighty wizard who's capable of tapping into his god-hood to disintegrate large and mighty powerful beasts. He's extremely handsome and fleet of foot, because god-hood.
Something doesn't have to be challenging to be fun. I have a lot of fun on silly playthroughs where I abuse game mechanics to do things like Kill Bill Punch a dragon in the heart. I also have a lot of fun with self-imposed challenges like going through the entire game with a solo blade, without dying or reloading a single time.
The inception of "achievements" that are worth points or gamer cred or whatever pisses me off because it's ruined the entire concept of the self-imposed challenge. I'm okay when it's stuff like simple accomplishments (Skyrim did achievements right) but I *loathe* things that require me to do next to impossible stuff, like getting a double kill from beyond the grave in Halo: Reach. Kind of a random tangent here.
TL;DR
It's a D&D game and therefore needs to reflect D&D, which is to say you should have the opportunity to be as weak or as powerful as you desire. Imagination in the limit.
As to game balance - it is not an imbalance that archmages are more powerful than those who swing swords. Game balance does not equal = pVp balance at all levels.
Having said that, I was never a big fan of save-or-die mechanics. Often they won't work when you really need them, i.e. to kill a really challenging opponent rather than trash - but when they do work against a foe like Firkraag, they tend to make the battle rather bland and anticlimactic.
I had an instant-death experience the first time I battled Irenicus in Hell. I tried in vain a lot of times, when suddenly, on the n-th attempt, Irenicus spawns inside the Globe of Blades of my summoned Deva and I don't know exactly what happened, the dialogue screen disappeared to fast, but Irenicus died because of standing inside that Globe of Blades before his defenses get put up and I'm smack bang in the middle of the ending cutscene without the fight even having started - glad it is over, but it leaves an empty feeling of a cheap victory.
It might be *imbalanced* to be able to get any stats you want by repeatedly re-rolling them, but that's for the players to choose. I enjoy my games when I min-max my way through them. At the same time I would never use some cheesy program to modify my files, that just won't be fair to myself. So, what you describe is far from the same.
In your example about using ctrl+Y vs manually fighting enemies, I don't consider them the same because defeating the enemies is a strategic part of a the game. It's dependant on several factors such as your sense of party building and tactics, understanding of D&D rules, the path through the game your characters have taken up to that point, etc. Having said that, I don't consider ctrl+Y a cheat either. It's a feature that you can (and should) use if that's how you enjoy playing. Not playing the way you like to play because of what someone else thinks would be to cheat yourself.
This is imo in contrast to, say, using ctrl+8 instead of rolling for hours, or using ctrl+j instead of waiting while your party try to walk single file up a narrow staircase and into a doorway as it has nothing to do with playing the game; it's just a matter of spending time. To me, rolling until you get a stat total of 100 or just using ctrl+8 or an editor to get a stat total of 100 is exactly the same thing. Of course, some people enjoy the tension/excitement/general process of rolling for a long time, and those people would be cheating themselves if they didn't do it that way. The same goes for you with your min/maxing.
Though, I don't see how you find rolling until you get a certain stat total to be fair to yourself, but editing them in won't be. Is it that you somehow feel that you "pay" for the good stats by spending a certain amount of time in front of the screen hitting reroll? It's not like you utilize any particular skillset to get the stats you want. But as said, if that's how you feel, then that's the way you should play.
And yes, by that same reasoning, if you save and reload until you manage to oneshot Firkraag with a quivering palm, then that is pretty much the same thing, as it pertains to cheating, as just using ctrl+Y on him.