Final battle against Caelar

LordLeviathan

I already finish Dragonspear once on core difficulty with a good party but I am struggling with a evil party against both of them on the same time.

I am playing on core difficulty with the evil canon party(Safana, Viconia, Edwin, Baeloth and Dorn)

I have already try several strategies like using web and lower resistance but I still have a hard time achieving anything.

If anyone can give me any tips on what to do that will be great.

elminster

Make sure Dorn (and possible you if you are a warrior) is using +3 weapons.

Also if you have saves from before entering Avernus then stock up on potions before you enter Avernus (there is a Flaming Fist merchant that you can buy them from in dragonspear castle). Bear in mind that this is the place to use any one time use items (or limited use charge items) that you have.

Abi_Dalzim

I recall there being some +3 arrows or the like lying around Dragonspear Castle, so be sure to grab those. Also, it may be too late, but those void weapons that the smith in Bridgefort can make are all +3, so tailor-made for taking on the BBEG. Lastly, gamble for the longsword with that devil in front of the palace.

Arunsun

There's one tactic that will work with this team:
Get Viconia to cast Magic Resistance on Belhifet. This will actually lower his Magic Resistance to twice your cleric level, which should be 10 if you reached the exp cap. Combining this and only one Lower Resistance will actually bring Belhifet's Magic Resistance to 0, using only a level 4 cleric spell and a level 5 mage spell.
He still is immune to fire, and resilient to cold (50% I believe) but you can spam magic missiles (and you should have plenty of those with Baeloth and Edwin and both rings of wizardry). This is the most effective way of taking Belhifet's defenses down and damage him effectively. I would advice using webs in a minor sequencer, after you lowered his resistance and his saving throws (with Doom and Greater Malison)
Belhifet has a -12 AC (which is good for an enemy even with ToB standards), as well as a very good THAC0 (around -10) so facetanking him with a fighter won't work quite that well, especially with his insane damage output. You won't be able to tank him for more than 10sec with just about any character. His AC makes him really hard to hit, since your THAC0 will hardly go lower than 0 even on a character that maximize it, so basically less than one attack in two will hit.
Caelar however has a less good AC, though it's still pretty low, -5 if I am not mistaken, so you should be able to hit her quite reliably. I suggest you use your melee fighters (so Dorn and maybe PC, depends on class) to take down Caelar while your mages and Viccy lower Belhifet's defenses, and then just try and keep him busy while your mages spam Magic Missile.

Oh and don't underestimate potions. Especially that of fire resistance.
What's your PC class, by the way? This would help us helping you.

Beowulf

you should buy the protection scrolls in the sastle they last 12 hours so take your time and cast them all on urself. then drink 2 hour porions of fire resist heroism defense and power heroism and the elevtric bluntinting potions. if u buy a summon monster wand u can spam monsters which the srupid guy will attck even though they cant damage him

oh drinlk the green regen troll potion at the fivht start too

LordLeviathan

I think it's impossible to do it, Edwin and Baeloth are always kill by demons of Belhifet when most of my party attack him and Viconia is always kill before she finish her spell.I struggle playing a blackguard with +3 long sword with dorn against both of them and Safana is useless.I do something get lucky and get them both web but not enough time to kill any of them.

The only way I ever win the fight is by fighting with Caelar not against her.

I don't know if I can do it.

Gallenger

Potions and scrolls are your friend - anything with any long duration needs to be taken whilst on the elevator - anything that gives magic or fire resistance in particular will make the fight MUCH easier.

From there the fight mainly comes down to getting Belth's magic resistance down so you can have somebody try to tank him (or using summons to tank him) whilst whittling him down with different spells.

If it's a problem of not having enough +3 weapons to hurt him, your best bet is the spell "enchant weapons" which will raise whatever you're holding to +3. Baeloth and Edwin will have to decrease his magic resistance (either by cheesing him or using the spell lower resist) to be effective.

As far as Caelar goes, she's a pretty tough enemy to face in her own right, and your best bet is to try to focus her down as quickly as possible while at least somebody or something distracts Belth, with maybe Dorn running around and killing the summons (Safana could help here too). Greater Malison will work on her so you can drop one of those + a doom if you can keep Vicky safe long enough to get the spell off and try to drop her saves so you can begin debuffing her. Once you cripple her with bad status effects (blindness being especially handy) she's a lot easier to deal with. The main reason I go for her first is that you can use some of her equipment on Belth lol

namarie

If you can, definitely make sure you have Edwin and Baeloth ward themselves with Spell Immunity: Abjuration. They are incredibly vulnerable and likely will not have enough time to rebuild their defenses once they take the dispel from Belhifet.

Once you have spell Immunity in place, you can actually have everyone else withdraw once the fight starts, while leaving the two mages in Belhifet's vicinity - Belhifet will waste his dispel on the nearest enemies. Meanwhile Edwin and Baeloth can toss out minor spell sequencer with webs or, if you have it, Spell sequencer with skull traps on Caelar. Their stone skin and mirror image should protect them for a while as the rest of the group deals with the lesser fiends.

Alternatively, if you can't cast spell Immunity, you can leave one party member to take the dispel (Safana for example). She will just have to drink a potion of invisibility and languish for the rest of the fight since she will certainly die without any magical defenses.

Now that you are at no concern of having all your buffs stripped by Belhifet, I would drink any long duration potions and use any defense scrolls you have before you take the elevator. In my run I have:

Scrolls:
Protection from fire
Protection from poison
Potions:
Potion of clarity
Potion of Free Action
Potion of regen
Potion of defense
Potion of dexterity (only if your dex is below 18)
Potion of mind focusing
Potion of Constitution
Potion of magic resistance (Viconia and Baeloth will use the ones that give +50% MR, everyone else should take the ones that give +50% AND auto-success on saving throws)
Potion of fire resistance
(For fighter class) potion of invulnerability, potion of heroism, potion of storm giant strength
Spells:
Remove fear
Protection from evil 10'
Chant, mirror image, blur, Divine power and/or righteous magic, draw upon holy might (cast immediately after the auto-save in the elevator)
Defensive harmony (cast immediately after the dispel by Belhifet)

If you have those +3 arrows from Bridgefort, they can cripple Caelar fairly quickly if you have a hasted archer (Safana, for example). Just be careful, she can't be protected by Free action for the oil of speed to work (unless you have mods that change that) so get her away from your own webs.

LordLeviathan

Thank you for all your advice, I did manage to do it in the end.

The turning point was when I decide to redo the Avernus part to get the two potion of giant strength for me and Dorn and when Belhifet got web it's was easy to take him down then, in fact Caelar was the last to fall.

Thank you again for all your support and I will now go on Baldur's Gate 2.

bob_veng

Arunsun said:

Get Viconia to cast Magic Resistance on Belhifet. This will actually lower his Magic Resistance to twice your cleric level, which should be 10 if you reached the exp cap. Combining this and only one Lower Resistance will actually bring Belhifet's Magic Resistance to 0, using only a level 4 cleric spell and a level 5 mage spell.

what a painful bug. is it reported?

Gallenger

That has been known about since the earliest days of BG2. But I assume there's something going on where it cannot be fixed, so it's mainly up to the player to use or not use as they see fit.

Enilwyn

Gallenger said:

That has been known about since the earliest days of BG2. But I assume there's something going on where it cannot be fixed, so it's mainly up to the player to use or not use as they see fit.

Yup, for some reason it overrides the MR of the enemy. I remember that was how I initially beat Firkraag.

Einhardt

bob_veng said:

Arunsun said:

Get Viconia to cast Magic Resistance on Belhifet. This will actually lower his Magic Resistance to twice your cleric level, which should be 10 if you reached the exp cap. Combining this and only one Lower Resistance will actually bring Belhifet's Magic Resistance to 0, using only a level 4 cleric spell and a level 5 mage spell.

what a painful bug. is it reported?

This is a bug? I already know this tactic but I thought that that's how it's supposed to work.

lunar

Hmm, can you still cast strength spell on a 25 str enemy like golem or dragon, to set their str to a paltry 18/ something, giving them a -5 to hit, -10 damage per hit debuff. If this is fixed, why shouldn't magic resist be fixed too?

bob_veng

i think you can, worth checking.

UnderstandMouseMagic

lunar said:

Hmm, can you still cast strength spell on a 25 str enemy like golem or dragon, to set their str to a paltry 18/ something, giving them a -5 to hit, -10 damage per hit debuff. If this is fixed, why shouldn't magic resist be fixed too?

Because people don't want it "fixed"?

I have never used the tactic, would never have heard of it apart from the forum.
Different kind of thinking to mine (literally, would never see a MR problem from this sideways an angle) and I appreciate that variety and having the opportunity to see an example of it.
Maybe even use it one day.

I really hope all these "fixes" don't diminish the variety of ways players have to play the game.

bob_veng

UnderstandMouseMagic said:

Because people don't want it "fixed"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Abi_Dalzim

bob_veng said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

I think argumentum ad populum is reasonably logical when the populus in question is the consumer base of a product, and the argument is that they should get the product that they want, without changes that they'd resent.

Einhardt

I think argumentum ad populum isn't really the case here. That statement wasn't claiming that any proposition is true because of the number of people that believe in said proposition.

Logical fallacies happen when people debate truth values, not what should or shouldn't be.

Raduziel

Feeblemind one and focus on the other.