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EEKeeper Class Tweaking

Looking for ideas for some interesting class hybrids for future playthroughs. I've played almost every class/kit included in the game and have started tweaking my charnames with EEKeeper. I recently finished a playthough with a Cleric/Ranger that had Paladin kit abilities. Thinking of running a Blade with Swashbuckler and Dragon Disciple effects. Not immediately putting full abilities in, but adding them at half the Blades level.

This is for all the players who like to tweak their characters beyond what the game allows. What are some of your favorite Frankesteinien class creations?
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Comments

  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    One of the sillier creations I tried was a Fighter->Swashbuckler dual class. A very effective reminder of why Swashbucklers don't normally get APR bonuses...
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Always want kensai/mage/thief to use the long lasting Righteous Magic, no success yet :-(
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    @islandking oh man, that is stupid broken even without Righteous Magic :wink:

    @Lord_Tansheron Blender of Doooooom
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    I believe multiclass is functional with mage specialists. So you could have Fighter/Necromancer or something.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211

    I believe multiclass is functional with mage specialists. So you could have Fighter/Necromancer or something.

    The only specialist multiclass possible is Fighter/Illusionist and only if you are a Gnome (in which case you will automatically be F/I, there is no other option).
  • SirBatinceSirBatince Member Posts: 882
    yes but we're talking about eekeeper aren't we? It does appear to be functional.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Yup, multiclass with one kit definitely works in eekeeper.
  • jesterdesujesterdesu Member Posts: 373
    Ranger / Druid is one I like. Should really be there too.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211

    yes but we're talking about eekeeper aren't we? It does appear to be functional.

    Oh, in that sense you mean.

    Yeah, sure, all kits work. Note that Barbarian is treated as a Fighter kit, meaning you can do some Cleric/Barbarian hybrid and stack lots of damage immunities. Works with Dwarven Defender, too, of course. Make Jan Jansen into a Barbarian and you'll get the damage reduction from his special armor as well, giving you a virtually indestructible (physical) tank.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    I used Barbarian/Mage once as a pseudo Ranger/Mage
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    I believe there's a mod called m7multikit which makes something like Berserker/Priest of Talos possible, but it's still in Beta and not actively updated for some time I believe.
    But let's not dwell in just classes, with EEkeeper we can exchange exclusive abilities to make some real Frankesteinien :-)
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    Yeah, I'm playing around with a Blade that has the hit bonus and luck of the Skald and Jester.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    ThacoBell said:

    Yeah, I'm playing around with a Blade that has the hit bonus and luck of the Skald and Jester.

    Isn't that going to be ridiculously over-powered?
  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 186
    edited January 2017
    The main thing I do with EEkeeper is increase the amount of times I can use my [1/day skills]. I found I would be too scared to use innate 1/day skills as I hate resting so I would just end up forever saving it for a "just incase" moment that never happens lol.

    The other thing I use EEkeeper for is to fix the swashbuckler bug of weapon proficiency not adding 1.5 apr as intended.
  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235

    ThacoBell said:

    Yeah, I'm playing around with a Blade that has the hit bonus and luck of the Skald and Jester.

    Isn't that going to be ridiculously over-powered?
    I'm playing lately to see what I can get away with. I'm bad enough at these games that I will still be challenged in major fights anyway.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Teo_live said:

    The main thing I do with EEkeeper is increase the amount of times I can use my [1/day skills]. I found I would be too scared to use innate 1/day skills as I hate resting so I would just end up forever saving it for a "just incase" moment that never happens lol.

    The other thing I use EEkeeper for is to fix the swashbuckler bug of weapon proficiency not adding 1.5 apr as intended.

    Is that a bug? Swashbucklers are thiefs, not fighters.

    Anyway, I like giving myself the following innate abilities;
    Mirror image, magic missile, invisibility, spiritual hammer and then some inquisitor kit levels, to get detect evil, dispel magic and true sight. Nothing to powerful (how is it fun if there is no challenge?) just a little something to make your main more special. Also, I always gimme myself total stats of 98. 97, 98 or 99 is rollable after like 20-40 min of rolling, but urghh I have done it the legal way so many times I get a pass these days. I rolled a 103 once, but never again, so that much would feel like cheating. You probably need a week or rolling unless you lucked out like I did that one time.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    DrakeICN said:

    Teo_live said:

    The other thing I use EEkeeper for is to fix the swashbuckler bug of weapon proficiency not adding 1.5 apr as intended.

    Is that a bug? Swashbucklers are thiefs, not fighters.
    Not a bug. Only warrior-type classes (Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, etc.) gain extra APR through proficiency points and levels.

    Swashbuckler with high APR turns quite ridiculous at high levels, due to the rapidly stacking damage bonuses. You can still do a Swashbuckler->Fighter dual class, though, pick up the APR and get some nice damage to add to those QoL thief skills. One of my favorite (legit) combos.
  • GallowglassGallowglass Member Posts: 3,356
    Teo_live said:

    ... to fix the swashbuckler bug of weapon proficiency not adding 1.5 apr as intended.

    DrakeICN said:

    Is that a bug? Swashbucklers are thiefs, not fighters.

    That's an old argument which has already been re-hashed several times on this forum.

    There are credible arguments on both sides, basically either that Swashbucklers should get the extra 1/2 APR because that's part of what having a second proficiency point in a weapon ought to mean, or that Swashbucklers shouldn't be eligible for the extra 1/2 APR because only warrior classes are meant to get extra attacks.

    In the course of the earlier arguments, the devs joined in to state their position, which is the second of the above interpretations. (They then even changed the wording of the in-game proficiency descriptions, which were previously ambiguous, to make clear that this was their decision).

    So you can agree or disagree with the decision of the devs, but it's not a "bug", because the current behaviour is what the devs intend it to be.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Good call, in my opionon. In the game that must not be mentioned that I bought on launch day for 500 SEK (50 euro) because it was also developed by Black Isle (although, as I learned later, everyone of importance that worked on BG had been fired) they implented the 3:D rules to the letter. Meaning, for instance, that there is no THACO cap, while AC is as difficult as ever to decrease, meaning that basically all attacks from a high level warrior hits, and if they also dualwield, they get six attacks per round, and they deal like 30 dmg per attack, for a total of 200 dmg... while even a low level (by then) shit spell like Melfs Acid arrow, that deals like 12 dmg, takes a round to cast. Though it wouldnt matter even if it dealt 1 gazillion dmg, because all mages are immediately knocked prone by the first warrior attack anyways.
  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 186
    edited January 2017
    @Gallowglass You mean Beamdog devs? I don't consider them canon nor would I trust them to balance out anything (the blackguard class for example completely broke the game for me with their +12 defense bypassable stackable no-save interrupting damage per hit, at warrior APR they are the better wizard slayers than wizard slayers lol).
    To be fair the original game isn't any better how on earth did they manage to create awful classes like shifter and wizard slayers that ironically suck at killing wizards.

    DrakeICN said:

    Teo_live said:

    The other thing I use EEkeeper for is to fix the swashbuckler bug of weapon proficiency not adding 1.5 apr as intended.

    Is that a bug? Swashbucklers are thiefs, not fighters.
    Not a bug. Only warrior-type classes (Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, etc.) gain extra APR through proficiency points and levels.
    And where is the proof of this claim in the original game?

    Warrior class according to all text were meant to be given free APR on level 7 and 13 respectively. No where in any official text could I find anything along the lines of "other classes gain inferior proficiency".

    Swashbuckler with high APR turns quite ridiculous at high levels, due to the rapidly stacking damage bonuses.

    This entire argument is N/A at high levels with whirlwind maxing APR. It is just a mere inconvenience at lower levels.

    Even if everything you say is true it is intended that only warrior gain the free APR I personally am not a fan of even MORE reason to munchkin min-max dual class, so pure class swashes get a free minor 1/2 anytime I play. Getting rid of dual/multi classes like Amonen and replacing them with a pure class kit actually made the game both harder and more interesting.

  • ThacoBellThacoBell Member Posts: 12,235
    "And where is the proof of this claim in the original game?"
    The rules that have never changed,
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Teo_live said:

    And where is the proof of this claim in the original game?

    It has never worked differently, makes sense thematically, is consistent across other classes, and has been reflected in the updated wordings indicating intent.

    Not sure what more proof you want. What's the "proof" that it should work differently? Nothing logically stronger than the above, I'd wager.

    Now, if you don't want this to work the way it does, you are 100% free to change it. In fact, I encourage people to play the way THEY want to play. The rules are not gospel, and it's not like anything you do in your game will have any effect on anyone else. Play it your way. I know I do when it comes to many, many rules details (just not, as it happens, this one in particular).
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    IMO, classes don't need to be perfectly balanced, considering the differences in obstacles one must overcome and/or personal talents they must rely on. One can easily become a plain fighter by training with city guards (like Khalid), but it's a whole different matter for some Kits which the game clearly describes how difficult the path is, not to mention others like Wild Mage or Dragon Disciple which comes from one's inherit talent.
    So for Swashbuckler, I'm with or against its bonus apr depending on a more detailed description(if any) about how it can be obtained, and the rules of course.
  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 186
    edited January 2017
    ThacoBell said:

    "And where is the proof of this claim in the original game?"
    The rules that have never changed,

    This is proof of nothing except the original company being too lazy to offer a fix and/or an explanation, a common occurrence in gaming history. I assume you have played enough games in your life to figure companies don't always fix every oversight/bug and it is usually up to the fans to create their own patches? There is just no profit in forever patching mistakes

    It has never worked differently, makes sense thematically, is consistent across other classes, and has been reflected in the updated wordings indicating intent.

    Not sure what more proof you want. What's the "proof" that it should work differently? Nothing logically stronger than the above, I'd wager.

    So... in other words it is just your personal theory crafting rather than actual knowledge of a sub-par proficiency being intentional? I have no proof either but it seems more logical that this was just another of the HUNDREDS of oversights and bugs in the original game due to time constraints. That's my wager

    Regardless there is no point arguing it unless the original designers come out with an official statement. All I do know is that it seems intentional that dual/multi class become gods over most weaker pure classes... and that the designers might have been high when balancing druids and Wizard slayers. So all in all, thank goodness for EEkeeper and fan made patches.
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    edited January 2017
    Wait what, there is hate for druids also? They get to use scimitars or spears and get healing spells and also you can give them 10-10-10 in str dex con to max the other stats because you can shapechange. And as a pure class you level faster. The only pure class that sucks is mage because you get shit hit points and shit weapons... but you can dual a lvl2 warrior (thats almost pure), or these days play as a dragon disciple. One of my first characters was a sorcerer and did just fine (not the first though, my first was a FMT because I wanted EVERYTHING!!! and also sorcerers were not added until BG2 if I remember correctly).

    Edit: And druids also get summon nymph which is like a really good healing spell that also have other spell and can soak some damage as well.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    Druids are useless and superfluous.

    There, said it.

    Come at me, treebros!
  • islandkingislandking Member Posts: 426
    Oh dear...the class comparatives can get nowhere, let's stick to the topic shall we.

    Come on man, share your own Frankesteinien, be creative!
  • DrakeICNDrakeICN Member Posts: 623
    Well, I always have wanted to try a monk, but then I never did, because the bottom line is that, just like fighters, they are boring. Click on an enemy and... oh wait, that was it, thats the entire strategy. Yes, yes, they can also sneak and get some stuns - still boring. But I was think a way to spice them up is to make a monk druid multi - specifically, a werewolf monk. I am to lazy right now to be keepering about, but the monk is based off priest template. So, adding druid spells and kittering in shapeshifter kit once every level may work outright. Otherwise, I guess maybe ranger/cleric kit (since rangers get sneak, but fighter driuds and fighter clerics dont), set specialization to monk, and keeper in driud abilities will maybe work.
  • Lord_TansheronLord_Tansheron Member Posts: 4,211
    DrakeICN said:

    I am to lazy right now to be keepering about, but the monk is based off priest template. So, adding druid spells and kittering in shapeshifter kit once every level may work outright. Otherwise, I guess maybe ranger/cleric kit (since rangers get sneak, but fighter driuds and fighter clerics dont), set specialization to monk, and keeper in driud abilities will maybe work.

    Monk is hardcoded to a large extent, and many features simply cannot be grafted easily (like the whole fists thing), certainly not with EEKeeper. They are not like Barbarians (who are in fact, mechanically, a Fighter kit) but more like Sorcerers (which also have a lot of hardcoding going on).
  • Teo_liveTeo_live Member Posts: 186
    You could give a monk character innate shifting abilities though with EEkeeper, giving werewolf form the APR and AC bonus of a monk.

    Though I found the best way to make shifting viable was (bug abuse) dispelling the claws thus your attack is basically werewolf swinging a weapon rather than a crappy claw. With ToB high-end weapons this was the only way a canon shifter is viable. It essentially turns BG shifter into a NWN-like shifter retaining weapon bonuses.
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