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I think I screwed up (Dead Nations/Hargrimm)

Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
I picked the wrong dialogue choice when I walked into the Dead Nations, pissed off Hargrimm by not believing he would spare me if I "submitted", and for whatever foolish reason, overwrote my quicksaves. My last hard save was an hour earlier in the Trash Warrens, and I ran off and did the Warren of Thought after that, so now I'm two hours out from my last hard save. Hargrimm has a huge, gigantic number of minions who will surround and kill me if I fight them. I suppose I could abuse the resurrection mechanic to slowly grind the ghouls down by letting TNO die over and over, but I can't get my spells back or heal my companions so even if I did kill all the ghouls, TNO, as a level 4 mage who's used up all his spells, is way too weak to beat Hargrimm, who fully heals himself every time I die. Am I going to have to do the Buried Village and the Catacombs all over again or is there a way to get around this/level grind somewhere else?

Really this game is kind of disappointing me. I expected some awesome role-playing and weird Planescape trippy stuff, but so far the game just wallows in squalor and gross-out comedy/shock value with lots of repetitive, unpleasant combat against trash mobs with characters who would probably get their asses kicked by a level 1 Baldur's Gate party fresh out of the Friendly Arm Inn. Can I please get at least a ranged weapon or something for TNO somewhere so he doesn't have to stand there in melee with his awful AC and get butchered?

"Buff your mental stats," they said. "It will unlock dialogue options," they said. I should have just rolled high STR and DEX and stayed a fighter. Being a wizard with 13 CON, 9 STR, and 12 DEX and trying to stab people with a tiny little knife makes me sympathize with Xan's worldview.
Teflon

Comments

  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,398
    edited April 15
    If you aren't running on android/IOS you could just enable the console and Ctrl+Y them all (or a bunch of them). That or Ctrl+R yourself until they are all dead.
    JuliusBorisov
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited April 15
    Adding SetPrivateProfileString(‘Program Options’,’Debug Mode’,’1′) to the end of Baldur.lua for PST:EE just makes the game overwrite the lua with the default and erase all my settings.

    How ironic that the game known for its involved story and lackluster combat lacks Story Mode, which was introduced by the game known for its tactical dungeon crawling and story that amounts to an excuse to crawl dungeons.
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 137
    edited April 15
    I don't want to spoil you or anything but you should be much higher than lvl4 even as a new mage. You should try to chat with Dak'kon a bit.
    Wisdom is very important in letting you gain levels fast.
    Loot everything and buy tattoos in the Smoldering Corpse area. (Wisdom, always, and int if you have sub 18 since you need that to finish Dak'kon's mage related dialogue, Charisma (15 or 16 don't remember) is also useful if you want to peacefully resolve the Dead Nations vs Rats quest but the options is still very easy to miss).
    If you still feel too weak, just advance the main plot and you'll have more followers helping you overcome your shortcomings.
    If you regret becoming a mage Dak'kon can turn you back into a fighter. He's in the smoldering corpse bar.

    The last option is to use the cheating axe from the console for dialogues and not using it for combat. You'll be sure that you won't miss any dialogue option due to stat checks. I advise against it though since it breaks immersion.
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited April 15
    My WIS is 9, it's not enough to even pass Dak'kon's first circle; I thought INT and CHR would be more important. As for regretting being a mage, I selected my starting stats with being a mage in mind, 9 STR is pathetic for a fighter. My problem is that I can't use my class to proper advantage without a ranged weapon (I never send single-class mages into melee in Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale).

    As for advancing the main plot, I thought
    fetching Pharod his water bottle
    was necessary to advance the main quest. Hargrim's got the key and I'm officially on his shit list.
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 137
    About Pharod's quest:
    Are you still trapped there? if yes, follow the quests and kill Soego you'll be able to leave. There is another exit that you can then acces to get what you need for pharod and it's the Sphere not the water -there is also an interesting puzzle like area but you can go there later since you will be asked to. You don't need the audience with the Silent King
    mement0
  • PurudayaPurudaya Member Posts: 814

    Really this game is kind of disappointing me. I expected some awesome role-playing and weird Planescape trippy stuff, but so far the game just wallows in squalor and gross-out comedy/shock value with lots of repetitive, unpleasant combat against trash mobs with characters who would probably get their asses kicked by a level 1 Baldur's Gate party fresh out of the Friendly Arm Inn. Can I please get at least a ranged weapon or something for TNO somewhere so he doesn't have to stand there in melee with his awful AC and get butchered?

    "Buff your mental stats," they said. "It will unlock dialogue options," they said. I should have just rolled high STR and DEX and stayed a fighter. Being a wizard with 13 CON, 9 STR, and 12 DEX and trying to stab people with a tiny little knife makes me sympathize with Xan's worldview.

    All I ever heard about PS:T over the years was how unique it was because you could talk your way through most anything and that there were only a "handful" of combat encounters if you chose the right dialogue options. Yeah...turns out that's not true at all. My base 14 CHA/18 INT/18 WIS mage has seen *plenty* of combat, and I can't think of one fight that has been more satisfying than it has been boring or frustrating. It's still a great game and beautifully written, but the half-baked combat is a significantly larger part of it than people say.

    I'm also playing a mage: level to 6-7 as a fighter, find a trainer who will help you spend proficiency points in daggers (nowhere is this explained in-game), and talk extensively with Dak'kon. With his buff spells and regular casting of blur, you can sort of fighter/mage it through combat (even with low STR/DEX/CON) until you start getting higher level spells. As far as ranged weapons go, I haven't seen any kind of lootable/buyable ranged weapons in the game whatsoever (to the point where I'm starting to wonder why I have quiver slots at all) and I'm over half way through. There is an optional party member that is exclusively ranged, but if you hate the combat in this game then you're not gonna like what it takes to get him.

    Keep playing, though; maybe drag the difficulty slider back. The narrative is definitely worth it.
    Teflon
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited April 15
    Meyahi said:

    About Pharod's quest:

    Are you still trapped there? if yes, follow the quests and kill Soego you'll be able to leave. There is another exit that you can then acces to get what you need for pharod and it's the Sphere not the water -there is also an interesting puzzle like area but you can go there later since you will be asked to. You don't need the audience with the Silent King

    That requires me to kill Hargrimm, which as I said, I can't do. I am stuck inside the Catacombs, not the Dead Nations, because setting foot inside the Dead Nations will lead to my immediate death.

    As for the narrative, does it ever get away from grimy slums and disease-ridden freaks and bizarre creatures who do not act anything like people? I want to meet a person somewhere in this game, not some high-concept idea of a "being". The only character I've met in seven hours of playing who was at all engaging was Morte, and that was in spite of his ridiculous slang dialect (is it Cockney? Polari? Why can't he just say "rumor" or "money" like a normal person?). Because if stuff like Dak'kon's philosophical nonsense, insane cannibal body collectors, and warrens of garbage are what this game is about, I'd rather just wash my hands of it, read/watch someone else's spoiler-filled analysis, and go replay Pillars of Eternity (which does the philosophical thing with a setting and characters I can actually relate to) or something. I'm staring at having to go back and replay two hours of a game that has so far completely failed to engage me in the hopes that it might engage me in the future. If I had actually been having fun up to that point I would have gone ahead and done it already.
  • DoubledimasDoubledimas Member Posts: 668
    After finishing this part,
    you will arrive in the upper class parts of Sigil. And deal with humans mostly.
  • MeyahiMeyahi Member Posts: 137
    edited April 16
    If you could leave the dead nations, you could go to the drowned nations. That's where the sphere is.
    You can also go to the drowned nations through the rat faction by talking to many as one and promising the death of the silent king. You don't even need to actually complete the quest to access the drowned nations area.

    If you don't like the setting, nothing can be done about it. The next big area is different but we're not here to convince you to play the game while you whine about it.
  • VokasakVokasak Member Posts: 2
    edited April 17

    TNO, as a level 4 mage

    Jesus penis. I'm pretty sure my TNO was higher than level 4 as a mage before even leaving Mebbeth's hut. Try talking to Dak'kon, especially if you took the obvious advice and invested in your Wis early on.

    Edit: Nevermind, I just saw your post where you said your wisdom was a 9...
    It may be time to reroll. For what it's worth, my favorite part of the game is once you get into the Lower Ward / Clerk Ward.
  • elminsterelminster Member, Developer Posts: 15,398
    edited April 17

    Adding SetPrivateProfileString(‘Program Options’,’Debug Mode’,’1′) to the end of Baldur.lua for PST:EE just makes the game overwrite the lua with the default and erase all my settings.dungeons.

    Make sure you have smart quotes disabled.
    JuliusBorisov
  • Woolie_WoolWoolie_Wool Member Posts: 156
    edited April 17
    Well I redid that part and got to the wards, and the game is finally getting interesting with a whole bunch of plot revelations happening one after another, and it's been three or four levels since I've had to fight somebody. Also I'm investing all my level-up stat points into WIS so it's up to 14 now.

    Kind of wish they had started doing that earlier. CRPGs of the era seem to be pretty universally bad at first impressions, but this one was particularly bad at it. It was when
    Morte divulged his backstory after I recruited Fall-from-Grace
    when I finally understood how this game got its reputation.
    Post edited by Woolie_Wool on
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,392
    I'm at about the same place, just finished Pharod's area and recruited Annah, but I haven't yet left the Hive. I've surprisingly found that the game has been very combat-heavy. But, because the devs were aiming for a story-focused game instead of a combat-focused game, they didn't care whether combat was at all satisfying. Thugs mob me; I mob thugs. Varguoilles mob me; I mob vargouilles. Morte heckles abishai; I mob abishai. Meh.

    BG1 and BG2 seemed to understand that you could have both aspects of the game be fun. They're still a step up from this IMHO. So far, anyway. (So far, anyway... getting out of the Hive should improve things.)

    I thought the Dead Nations area was pretty cool. And they way cranium rats work is extremely cool.

    Funny thing about stats and wading into melee with a 9-STR mage... it's been fine for me. I started with what I think were fairly well-rounded stats:
    9 STR
    12 DEX
    12 CON
    15 INT
    15 WIS
    12 CHA

    I've gotten 5 points to add at 8th level, and put 1 each into everything except STR. With the free CON/INT/WIS bonuses and a few tattoos/charms, I've been able to get the benefit of most stat checks. From here on out I'll probably raise STR and DEX at level-ups.

    Thing is, as a 7th level fighter, my thac0/APR/specialization carries over when I'm a mage. And as a mage I have a 6-point boost to AC (bracelet that's equivalent to scale mail, and the earring that's +2 AC). Plus I can cast Shield/Blur/Luck. So I'm actually substantially more capable in melee as an 8th level mage, than I am as a 7th level fighter. Weird.
  • PokotaPokota Member Posts: 351
    edited April 27
    I've more-or-less abandoned my first attempt (16 STR/CON/WIS) and am focusing on my second.

    Did you know you don't retain your Thief abilities while you're a fighter? Or do I actually need more Thief levels for that to carry over like in regular Dual Classing?
  • subtledoctorsubtledoctor Member Posts: 7,392
    Pokota said:

    Did you know you don't retain your Thief abilities while you're a fighter?

    Yup. To do thief stuff you have to convert to the thief class. Remove all the traps, open all the chests, then talk to Dakkon to become a mage or fighter again.

    Kind of meh, mechanically. I'm toying with the idea of a mod that just makes TNO into a multiclass FMT, and to heck with all of this fiddly class changing...
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