It may interest some that , In ToB, you can use the experience fountain in Saradush to get Immie to draw even with Nalia. I am about to put paid to Yaga-Shura and Immie is still in the lead, 3,766,334 XP to 3,761,016 for Nalia. I'll keep you posted.
It may interest some that , In ToB, you can use the experience fountain in Saradush to get Immie to draw even with Nalia. I am about to put paid to Yaga-Shura and Immie is still in the lead, 3,766,334 XP to 3,761,016 for Nalia. I'll keep you posted.
Experience fountain?
I assume he's referring to the scroll collection in Arcana Archives, (two copies of every spell in the game).
I assume he's referring to the scroll collection in Arcana Archives, (two copies of every spell in the game).
Oh, no. Okay, massive SPOILER! - - - - - If you station any charname or NPC with an infinitely repeating weapon (Bow of Gesen, Tansheron's Bow, Crimson Dart, Boomerang Dagger, Hangard's Axe, etc.) on the northeast wall of Saradush ( around x=2364 y=580) , they will start firing at the attacking Fire Giants without being subjected to any danger themselves, killing them at 8000 XP per. You can leave them like that for any time , and of course leave Nalia back at the Pocket Plane. I used an hour and a half (while I went and read) with Charname, a Fighter, with Hangard's Axe, Jaheira with the Crimson Dart, and Emmy with the Bow of Gesen. Voila, get Emmy up to snuff, almost dead even with Nalia.
Nalia made a lot more sense in the original BG2. Nalia is ultimately a mage with some thieving abilities, serving as a counterpoint to Edwin, who is almost exclusively magic-oriented. It's a mage with utility vs pure arcane might kind of thing. Nalia's default 50% fire resistance even had tactical value in early game (she can get to 100% easily with Fireshield, fire damage heals her if you went over that). It's a setup not unlike Xan and his moonblade. Anyway both Nalia/Edwin have their advantages. Also from a character perspective, Nalia is CG while Edwin is LE. Both were practically born to power (daughter of a powerful Amnish lord vs possible scion of a very powerful Thayvian family) but they have very different approaches to using their power.
Imoen never really came into the equation for me class-wise, she was always just an ally who could potentially be useful regardless of her class. Yoshimo is her placeholder, not Nalia. I have very few runs where I rushed Imoen just to get a mage with thief abilities, it's just not worth the headache and the let's-rush-the-obviously-overpowered-mage (suicidal, imo) option has never made sense for me.
Jan becomes a factor depending on party composition, but he also has a very distinct T/M playstyle. You simply do not play Jan like Nalia or Edwin. He's really more like a thief with arcane spells, only becoming playable as a "true" mage very late into the game. I find him competing more with Yoshimo in my games, and as long as we forget her character/story Hexxat is welcome competition for both.
Since the introduction of the EE NPCs things have changed. Neera gives you a third mage option, except wild mage is just so versatile assuming you don't have self-imposed restrictions in place. There's just so much you can do with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer (especially if you know your way around where to find high level spell scrolls) and she basically offers you some of the best of what both Edwin and Nalia have to offer. As much as I like Neera, it would have been better for the sake of game balance if she was a multiclass T/M with NRD. That way she's competing with Jan instead of Nalia/Edwin, and without the chaos shield spell line her magic is a lot more unpredictable. You basically get what is essentially a semi-full mage (unlike Jan) AND a full thief (lockpicks/traps-wise)... IF you're willing to live with the risks.
A lot of the new content/changes has made it difficult to appreciate Nalia outside of her character.
A lot of the new content/changes has made it difficult to appreciate Nalia outside of her character.
Which is a double-whammy because no NPC got shorter shrift from a "character development" standpoint in ToB than Nalia. "Hey guys, I'm super-jaded now for no discernible reason and also I'm only going to banter with you twice all game." She's basically like Imoen in SoA, but at least Imoen had the excuse of being destined to die until the very end of the production cycle.
(Nalia still fills a role, though, since she's compatible with Neera and Edwin isn't. If you want two archmages, Neera/Nalia is your best duo.)
Like somebody above pointed out. Nalia origionally was your replacement to Imoen. You weren't supposed to get imoen back origionally but that got changed. It's also why Imoen doesn't have the most dialogue. Imoen's particular class set happened because people were dual classing her in BG1 to pick up mage stuff after a small initial but useful set of Thieves skills. So in origionally becoming Imoen's traveling companion replacement that basically set Nalia's class setup.
And Nalia has always kind of gotten the short end of the stick in the party. That's not something that started with EE. it's just got a different reason with EE involved. Nalia was always one of the lesser picked characters because you could use Yoshimo's situation to placeholder for Imoen. Jan was funnier. There are other mage multi's that are useful in the game. And other things along those threads.
Heh, after my first run-through I never even took Yoshimo when he turned up in Casa Irenicus. Not only was he a suspicious class ("Assassin" - really!) but his quest (Maevar) was highly annoying (to me). I have never been amused by Jan (unlike my older boy) so I always leave him in the dust, too. Nally little Nalia for me every time. What's a few Potions of Master Thievery?
NPCs will always have their supporters/haters and everything in-between character-wise, I'm pointing out things out from a function perspective. Personally I've always liked how Nalia came with practically everything you needed to beat the De Arnise Stronghold spell-wise (Polymorph Self, Web, Slow, even Cloudkill, and she can use those Flame Arrows her captain gives you). She does lack key spells like Haste, but those are some of the most common scrolls you can find.
Which is a double-whammy because no NPC got shorter shrift from a "character development" standpoint in ToB than Nalia. "Hey guys, I'm super-jaded now for no discernible reason and also I'm only going to banter with you twice all game."
You can call her out on this IIRC, and Valygar/Aerie do too. I don't remember her exact reply but I think she tries to explain how she's embraced her power but is conflicted about how to use it properly. She knows she's an archmage now and combined with her family's influence she can do a lot of things with that power.
That's actually one of the reasons why I really liked her character in ToB. She's one of the few NPCs self-aware enough to realize just how ridiculously powerful PC and co. have become. I mean even Elminster just about admits that you've outleveled him at some point.
That said, it would indeed have been nice if she had more banter.
I assume he's referring to the scroll collection in Arcana Archives, (two copies of every spell in the game).
Oh, no. Okay, massive SPOILER! - - - - - If you station any charname or NPC with an infinitely repeating weapon (Bow of Gesen, Tansheron's Bow, Crimson Dart, Boomerang Dagger, Hangard's Axe, etc.) on the northeast wall of Saradush ( around x=2364 y=580) , they will start firing at the attacking Fire Giants without being subjected to any danger themselves, killing them at 8000 XP per. You can leave them like that for any time , and of course leave Nalia back at the Pocket Plane. I used an hour and a half (while I went and read) with Charname, a Fighter, with Hangard's Axe, Jaheira with the Crimson Dart, and Emmy with the Bow of Gesen. Voila, get Emmy up to snuff, almost dead even with Nalia.
ETA to add numerical location
Ok, that's what I THOUGHT you were talking about since you mentioned Saradush and the endless fire giant exp is THE first thing I think of about Saradush (sad). I thought there might have been some fountain you click on for exp I'd never heard of.
Imoen never really came into the equation for me class-wise, she was always just an ally who could potentially be useful regardless of her class. Yoshimo is her placeholder, not Nalia.
You know, that makes a lot more sense since outside of Irenicus' Dungeon, there is no overlap between Yoshimo and Imoen.
One of your npc companions potentially betraying you was one of the button points to BG2 pre-release when it was talked about way back in the day as I recall. The fact that the it coincides with getting Imoen back may have been an easy way to work her back in.
Heh, after my first run-through I never even took Yoshimo when he turned up in Casa Irenicus. Not only was he a suspicious class ("Assassin" - really!) but his quest (Maevar) was highly annoying (to me). I have never been amused by Jan (unlike my older boy) so I always leave him in the dust, too. Nally little Nalia for me every time. What's a few Potions of Master Thievery?
Bounty hunter, not assassin, but still suspiciously named.
Also, Mae'Var isn't really Yoshimo's quest. He tries to point you in the direction, saying repeatedly that as an independent thief he really should go square up with Renall Bloodscalp before something bad happens to him... but if you ignore him long enough he just says "You know what? It'll probably be fine. Nevermind."
Minsc does the same thing with the Umar Hills quest. Once you talk to the boy, he'll pester you constantly to go do it, but there are no consequences for ignoring him, (unlike, say, Nalia with her keep).
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If you station any charname or NPC with an infinitely repeating weapon (Bow of Gesen, Tansheron's Bow, Crimson Dart, Boomerang Dagger, Hangard's Axe, etc.) on the northeast wall of Saradush ( around x=2364 y=580) , they will start firing at the attacking Fire Giants without being subjected to any danger themselves, killing them at 8000 XP per. You can leave them like that for any time , and of course leave Nalia back at the Pocket Plane. I used an hour and a half (while I went and read) with Charname, a Fighter, with Hangard's Axe, Jaheira with the Crimson Dart, and Emmy with the Bow of Gesen. Voila, get Emmy up to snuff, almost dead even with Nalia.
ETA to add numerical location
Anyway both Nalia/Edwin have their advantages.
Also from a character perspective, Nalia is CG while Edwin is LE. Both were practically born to power (daughter of a powerful Amnish lord vs possible scion of a very powerful Thayvian family) but they have very different approaches to using their power.
Imoen never really came into the equation for me class-wise, she was always just an ally who could potentially be useful regardless of her class. Yoshimo is her placeholder, not Nalia. I have very few runs where I rushed Imoen just to get a mage with thief abilities, it's just not worth the headache and the let's-rush-the-obviously-overpowered-mage (suicidal, imo) option has never made sense for me.
Jan becomes a factor depending on party composition, but he also has a very distinct T/M playstyle. You simply do not play Jan like Nalia or Edwin. He's really more like a thief with arcane spells, only becoming playable as a "true" mage very late into the game. I find him competing more with Yoshimo in my games, and as long as we forget her character/story Hexxat is welcome competition for both.
Since the introduction of the EE NPCs things have changed. Neera gives you a third mage option, except wild mage is just so versatile assuming you don't have self-imposed restrictions in place. There's just so much you can do with Nahal's Reckless Dweomer (especially if you know your way around where to find high level spell scrolls) and she basically offers you some of the best of what both Edwin and Nalia have to offer.
As much as I like Neera, it would have been better for the sake of game balance if she was a multiclass T/M with NRD. That way she's competing with Jan instead of Nalia/Edwin, and without the chaos shield spell line her magic is a lot more unpredictable. You basically get what is essentially a semi-full mage (unlike Jan) AND a full thief (lockpicks/traps-wise)... IF you're willing to live with the risks.
A lot of the new content/changes has made it difficult to appreciate Nalia outside of her character.
(Nalia still fills a role, though, since she's compatible with Neera and Edwin isn't. If you want two archmages, Neera/Nalia is your best duo.)
And Nalia has always kind of gotten the short end of the stick in the party. That's not something that started with EE. it's just got a different reason with EE involved. Nalia was always one of the lesser picked characters because you could use Yoshimo's situation to placeholder for Imoen. Jan was funnier. There are other mage multi's that are useful in the game. And other things along those threads.
You can call her out on this IIRC, and Valygar/Aerie do too. I don't remember her exact reply but I think she tries to explain how she's embraced her power but is conflicted about how to use it properly. She knows she's an archmage now and combined with her family's influence she can do a lot of things with that power.
That's actually one of the reasons why I really liked her character in ToB. She's one of the few NPCs self-aware enough to realize just how ridiculously powerful PC and co. have become. I mean even Elminster just about admits that you've outleveled him at some point.
That said, it would indeed have been nice if she had more banter.
Also, Mae'Var isn't really Yoshimo's quest. He tries to point you in the direction, saying repeatedly that as an independent thief he really should go square up with Renall Bloodscalp before something bad happens to him... but if you ignore him long enough he just says "You know what? It'll probably be fine. Nevermind."
Minsc does the same thing with the Umar Hills quest. Once you talk to the boy, he'll pester you constantly to go do it, but there are no consequences for ignoring him, (unlike, say, Nalia with her keep).