10apr without belm?

ahhyep

Was thinking about trying to get 10apr without belm. Usually run through F/M/Ts and get UAI for scarlet ninja-to, but was thinking about going Berserker -> Mage cause it would give me some cool flavor throughout the trilogy.

Can a Berserker->Mage get 10apr without Belm?

Arctodus

It's possible, but really late in BG2. If you use Tweak Anthology and mod in True Grandmastery, which will give you a full APR at grandmastery instead of 1/2 APR, you'll need the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization to hit 5 APR per rounds.

- 1 Base APR ;
- 1 APR from level 13 Berserker ;
- 1.5 from grandmastery ;
- 0.5 from Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization ;
- 1 from dual-wielding.

With Improved haste, you'll get to 10 APR.

So, it involves a late dual AND a late game item from ToB. But yeah, it's feasible.

ahhyep

Ugh, so BG2EE doesn't allow this without patching? I don't like modding - it's a slippery slope. (I would totally remove free action from Flail of Ages +5 haha)

Was of course going to dual @ level 13 and was considering late game TOB. Was wanting to use the Foebane mainhand and some offhand that provides a better boost than an extra attack if I could afford it. Still might do it considering 9apr and 10apr probably isn't much of a noticeable difference.

Borek

The Gauntlets are not necessarily late TOB, they drop at the bottom of Watchers Keep which is perfectly possible to do in Chapter 2/3 of SoA, especially as a solo since you'll be leveling up so fast. You'd probably need to do most of the Chapter 2 quests to get a few key items and the gold to afford decent equipment for a full party.

Only slight drawback is being fully WK equipped before spellhold can make the rest of the game a bit too easy.

If you can manage to get the Staff of the Magi it'll make WK significantly easier with a mage bhaalspawn.

Arctodus

Well, by late ToB, I meant ToB content, which WK is. And late, because it's deep into WK. But yeah, you can get the gauntlets early in SoA.

luskan

Is someone else in the party using Kundane? It also gives an extra 0.5 attack per round. Or do you just want to avoid the speed weapons off-hand?

Lord_Tansheron

ahhyep said:

Was wanting to use the Foebane mainhand and some offhand that provides a better boost than an extra attack if I could afford it.

In terms of pure damage output, +APR offhands are mathematically superior to any other choice (barring some highly extreme fringe scenarios, like running with 5 STR or whatever, and even there it may still hold).

The proof is very simple. Assume your main hand weapon deals X damage, and your offhand Y. That means an APR offhand's damage is always be Y+X (since the APR on offhand is hard-capped at 1), so even if Y=0 (enemy completely immune to OH's damage) you still have a gain of X. In order for another offhand to deal more damage in that case, it would have to deal Y>X damage - which is categorically impossible since any weapon with Y>X would instead itself become the mainhand (you always use the highest damage weapon in the main).
The only way for Y < X to hold but for Y+X to still be worse damage would be a weapon that adds Z bonus damage to the main, with Z*(APR-1)>X. The only weapon that could possibly do this is Crom Faeyr, however then it very quickly becomes apparent that using Crom Faeyr in the main hand with yet again an APR offhand is practically always superior.

Note that this is only about OFFENSIVE power in terms of strict damage output, not about defensive stats or special effects or whatever. You may very well choose to use an offhand with lower damage output for another reason (e.g. immunity to an effect, other status boost, etc.). But in terms of pure damage, APR offhands are virtually always the superior choice.


P.S.: Also don't dual at 13 :P

SomeSort

Lord_Tansheron said:

ahhyep said:

Was wanting to use the Foebane mainhand and some offhand that provides a better boost than an extra attack if I could afford it.

In terms of pure damage output, +APR offhands are mathematically superior to any other choice (barring some highly extreme fringe scenarios, like running with 5 STR or whatever, and even there it may still hold).

It doesn't take an extreme fringe scenario. All it takes is the Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization on a character with grandmastery and 13 levels as a fighter. Suddenly speed weapons are only adding 0.5 APR and the math falls apart.

(Of course you could always just equip a speed weapon and pass the gauntlets to someone else, unless it's a solo / duo / trio run or something.)

Grond0

ahhyep said:

Ugh, so BG2EE doesn't allow this without patching? I don't like modding - it's a slippery slope. (I would totally remove free action from Flail of Ages +5 haha)

Was of course going to dual @ level 13 and was considering late game TOB. Was wanting to use the Foebane mainhand and some offhand that provides a better boost than an extra attack if I could afford it. Still might do it considering 9apr and 10apr probably isn't much of a noticeable difference.

If you want to be able to reach 10 APR without using a speed weapon or mods you might be interested in looking at the Priest of Lathander kit. If you dual from that into a fighter then 10 APR is easy to achieve. For more of a challenge dual into a mage, but not before level 21 (giving you 3 uses of the Boon of Lathander).

SomeSort

Grond0 said:

ahhyep said:

Ugh, so BG2EE doesn't allow this without patching? I don't like modding - it's a slippery slope. (I would totally remove free action from Flail of Ages +5 haha)

Was of course going to dual @ level 13 and was considering late game TOB. Was wanting to use the Foebane mainhand and some offhand that provides a better boost than an extra attack if I could afford it. Still might do it considering 9apr and 10apr probably isn't much of a noticeable difference.

If you want to be able to reach 10 APR without using a speed weapon or mods you might be interested in looking at the Priest of Lathander kit. If you dual from that into a fighter then 10 APR is easy to achieve. For more of a challenge dual into a mage, but not before level 21 (giving you 3 uses of the Boon of Lathander).

I was wondering myself how Boon of Lathander stacks with Improved Haste, but then I read that OP was looking to use Foebane as his mainhand weapon. Cleric duals would rule that right out.

unavailable

Borek said:

The Gauntlets are not necessarily late TOB, they drop at the bottom of Watchers Keep which is perfectly possible to do in Chapter 2/3 of SoA, especially as a solo since you'll be leveling up so fast. You'd probably need to do most of the Chapter 2 quests to get a few key items and the gold to afford decent equipment for a full party.

Only slight drawback is being fully WK equipped before spellhold can make the rest of the game a bit too easy.

If you can manage to get the Staff of the Magi it'll make WK significantly easier with a mage bhaalspawn.

If I were at a stage when I could solo watchers keep I'd consider the game beat and maybe start again.

ahhyep

I guess I don't have to use foebane, I was just looking for an interesting solo. I typically go Elven F/M/T, and UAI 25STR /10apr with Crom Faeyr and Scarlet Ninja-To... it just wrecks. I was considering a different fighter based Charname this time, really just looking for a new unique adventure.

I've ran a paladin (inquisitor using Carsomyr) to about the beginning of TOB but never completed anything besides FMT.

SomeSort

Foebane is my favorite weapon in the series, so I'd stick with that. The extra HP it adds gets really insane. (Blackrazor is also pretty rad, for that matter, and for a similar reason. All about them auto-heals.)

I'd say don't sweat the difference between 9 APR and 10 APR with Improved Haste. Foebane + Crom Faeyr will serve you better than Foebane + Belm.

ahhyep

Yep. So now I need to figure out which fighter based multi I want to make, and how proficiency points for weapons should work! Thanks!

SomeSort

ahhyep said:

Yep. So now I need to figure out which fighter based multi I want to make, and how proficiency points for weapons should work! Thanks!

A multi? I thought you were going to do a solo Berserker>Mage. If other classes are on the table, Foebane to me really sings on a Barbarian or Dwarven Defender because of their innate damage resistances. Or a Paladin with Armor of Faith. Throw a Defender of Easthaven in the offhand and you're nigh-on-unkillable, healing faster than you get hurt.

Or if you're soloing, you're probably going to want either some mage or thief for quality-of-life purposes, so that leaves F/M, F/T, F>M, or F>T. The former two don't get kits, and for the latter two, Berserker is the ultimate solo kit. Wizard Slayer > Thief is also a fun and slightly different choice.

ahhyep

Yep, pretty sure it's gonna be berserker (13) -> mage